How can i get nice blended backing vocals at tracking?

Im using a Neuman M149 for the main vox which sounds great,should i experiment singing off axis for backing vox or use a different mic altogether,a ribbon mic perhaps.

The Backing vocals ive done have to much energy in them thus im having to over eq at mixdown hense the post.

I also have heard of singing further back from the mic for better results & will experiment.

Thanks for any tips

you could try moving the mic back a few feet back, which will automatically add depth & make them less present. A mellower mic and more "background" performance could definitely improve things too.

I think that you can get some really nice effects by actually going outside the room and singing into it. So put the microphone middle of the room, go outside and then sing into the room. Its also quite fun if you can get the microphone in a corridor and sing down from one end to the other, that can create some interesting sounds.

It all depends how loud the backing vocals are going to be? Some backing vocals need to be recorded the same way but just sang differently (dropping the hard consonant) this helps the backing vocals blend with the lead vocal.

Make sure the backing vocals fit the lead vocal both in tone/harmony/diction and then think about where they need to be. Oh and I also want to add that I hate recording backing vocals and they are boring hope it helps!!

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There is nothing Grim about this Reaper
We Fell From The Sky

A lot of it is the way they're sung. It helps to back off the mic but in a booth, a smaller room or a room with less than about 9ft of clearance, you get a distracting amount of close room sound. So experiment but for sure try to sing them the way you want them to sound. They can end up quite weird in isolation sometimes.

J

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www.jackruston.com

Quote manleyelop:

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How can i get nice blended backing vocals at tracking?

Im using a Neuman M149 for the main vox which sounds great,should i experiment singing off axis for backing vox or use a different mic altogether,a ribbon mic perhaps.

The Backing vocals ive done have to much energy in them thus im having to over eq at mixdown hense the post.

I also have heard of singing further back from the mic for better results & will experiment.

Thanks for any tips

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Is this a "one-man-band" set up, you singing all the parts?

A lot of this is about how the backings are performed. Are you hearing the lead vocal (or, at least, a rough recording of it) loud and clear in your headphones while tracking? Are you conciously blending in under the lead, as you would on a live gig? Are the backing lines in a register which you CAN sing without "punching" too hard?

Quote manleyelop:

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How can i get nice blended backing vocals at tracking?

Im using a Neuman M149 for the main vox which sounds great,should i experiment singing off axis for backing vox or use a different mic altogether,a ribbon mic perhaps.

The Backing vocals ive done have to much energy in them thus im having to over eq at mixdown hense the post.

I also have heard of singing further back from the mic for better results & will experiment.

Thanks for any tips

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By the sounds of what you are saying multi-tracked with each track using a different aspect of your voice and don't be afraid of unison as well as harmony: and both techniques put together. Also start looking at how Queen were tracked. However, remember the nature of the sound stage.

Reg

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Google less; read more!

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Is this a "one-man-band" set up, you singing all the parts?

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Yeah i suppose it is ive' got no mates lol
Im basically experimenting with different studio projects to learn the trade & ocassionally get the odd victim to come down to experiment on.

Im the Rock singer Guitarist/ Bass /Keyboard/ Drum dude so it's not ideal..I sing harmony parts pretty well & have a good range but maybe tend to overdo the backing vox i think & they come across too strong hense the question..Just looking for any tips i guess



:beamup

Edited by manleyelop (04/09/11 08:44 AM)

Quote Jack Ruston:

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A lot of it is the way they're sung. It helps to back off the mic but in a booth, a smaller room or a room with less than about 9ft of clearance, you get a distracting amount of close room sound. So experiment but for sure try to sing them the way you want them to sound. They can end up quite weird in isolation sometimes.

J

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Think that's a good point "sing them as you want them to sound"

I think one problem i have with singing softer is i have to close mic as my studio is abit noisey from road traffic..if i back away i have to boost the pre & the noise is boosted although my mic has a filter which helps.

Try a different mic, perhaps an SM58. It will be less affected by room noise and it has that sound which always seems to mix really easily.

Good point i'll try that

Do you suggest using different mics for lead & Vox as a rule?

For this project i did use the same LDC & tried singing off axis for the harmonies with Ok results still not the blend i was hoping for

Edited by manleyelop (04/09/11 09:13 AM)

Quote manleyelop:

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Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Is this a "one-man-band" set up, you singing all the parts?

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Yeah i suppose it is ive' got no mates lol
Im basically experimenting with different studio projects to learn the trade & ocassionally get the odd victim to come down to experiment on.

Im the Rock singer Guitarist/ Bass /Keyboard/ Drum dude so it's not ideal..I sing harmony parts pretty well & have a good range but maybe tend to overdo the backing vox i think & they come across too strong hense the question..Just looking for any tips i guess

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Put a short sample of your mix somewhere we can hear it. Otherwise we're just guessing.

Ok Thanks i will & i'll keep experimenting

Good BVs are in the performance. Some of the worst BVs come from lead vocalists in my experience. The art of producing clean, consistent, measured backing vocals is a skill that few seem to truly understand. Too often I'm asked to mix a multi-tracked host of 'lead vocals' that simply do not blend well together.

This said, I often use a dynamic mic, such as MD421 or SM57 for tracking, which can help to place the BVs behind the lead, and backing the singer away from the mic is also valid.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Hi -

I've read in the past for this situation that rolling the highs off can push the BVs back to a nice degree, but since nobody has posted that technique I thought I'd ask here - is that useful, or ...

If someone thinks it is, what frequencies do you generally roll off ... or is that too program-dependent to have a rule of thumb?

Thanks!

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Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

Quote alexis:

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I've read in the past for this situation that rolling the highs off can push the BVs back to a nice degree, but since nobody has posted that technique I thought I'd ask here - is that useful, or ...

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Far too much "mixing" goes on when a better solution would be "perform it the way it should have been performed" :-)

We're also maybe hitting the old problem here that nobody likes the sound of their own voice :-)

Quote The Elf:

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Good BVs are in the performance. Some of the worst BVs come from lead vocalists in my experience. The art of producing clean, consistent, measured backing vocals is a skill that few seem to truly understand. Too often I'm asked to mix a multi-tracked host of 'lead vocals' that simply do not blend well together.

This said, I often use a dynamic mic, such as MD421 or SM57 for tracking, which can help to place the BVs behind the lead, and backing the singer away from the mic is also valid.

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+1 on that ...

It is certainly possible for a lead vocalist to come up with good backing vocals, but ideally they need to have an ear for it... e.g on this song the bvox is sung moderately hard against a more gentle lead vocal. To help provide further contrast the bvox is sung a few metres away from the mic:

http://www.eyedogeye.com/gigs/songs/01%20Down%20A%20Dream.mp3

Alternatively, here is a gentler tune where the character of the lead and backing vocals is closer, and a nice blend is achieved by their closeness in tone and singing style, but a bit of a lilt and variation in dynamics helps.

http://www.eyedogeye.com/gigs/songs/08%20When%20Your%20Light%20Goes%20Out. mp3

It can also help to avoid autotuners, comping and other such clean up techniques, if you have a single vocalist doing lead and bvox - the more you clean up, the more the tendency to homogeneity. High pass filters are your friend if you have lots of close mic'd backing vocals.

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www.piethaag.com

Quote alexis:

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I've read in the past for this situation that rolling the highs off can push the BVs back to a nice degree, but since nobody has posted that technique I thought I'd ask here - is that useful, or ...

If someone thinks it is, what frequencies do you generally roll off ... or is that too program-dependent to have a rule of thumb?

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More often I'm rolling off lows, but that's to create the illusion of distance that mic placement might otherwise make a better job of. A few less highs will let the lead vocal shine through, but this isn't always necessary or desirable.

There's really no rule of thumb to give you - just do what sounds right for the circumstances and listen in context as you tweak.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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Good BVs are in the performance. Some of the worst BVs come from lead vocalists in my experience. The art of producing clean, consistent, measured backing vocals is a skill that few seem to truly understand. Too often I'm asked to mix a multi-tracked host of 'lead vocals' that simply do not blend well together.

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+1 to this. BV's is a real skill and much underrated at that. That's why they're often performed by the musicians in the band rather than the singer

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

I believe it is in the performance. A comment above about "mixing a load of lead vocalists" nails it.

I'm a one man band dude too (billy no mates!) and i sing them as i want them to sound. I find singing from my throat amd mouth as opposed to the power from the chest you put into a lead vocal helps.
That sentence sounds weird i know, but think how you sing a falsetto. Different part of your voice/throat/lack of power. Do that with all the ranges. And again as pointed out. Use unison as well as harmony, and at different powers.

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My Songs are at http://songramp.com/RonnieG

I have sung BV and Lead Vox for many years

If I am singing with someone else, then no problem with harmony / unison etc...

But for whatever reason I get a mental block when doing a BV against my own vocal. I find leaving a clue line from the lead vocal just prior to the BV line then muting the lead while I record the BV helps me over this.

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Madman_Greg

The single thing with the biggest impact I have found is to ask the performer NOT to emphasise consonants on all but the first tracked BV (I normally double, or even triple track each harmony). this really helps to create a smooth performance.

The second thing is timing if layering BV's. This really must be 100% spot on. If your singer cannot sing EVERY silable identically to the previously sang line, then you have lots of editing to do. Finally, I use little compression on lead vocals, but I compress BV's quite heavily.

You can try grouping BVs together and compress the hell out of them with a very short attack time, or even pre-compress so that you *really* lose that attack, or Transient Designer (or similar) might also work nicely. It's another way of killing off those consonants at the start of words, so that the lead vocals come through.

Hi there maybe the problem is not with the actual recording. Try recording more layers of bvs than you need, then hard compressing them with a high ratio, finally make them sit lower in the mix, also panning them in different areas and with different amounts reverb.

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info@onlinestudios.co.uk
www.onlinestudios.co.uk

Things that work for me when I'm working on BV's:

- Do one line at a time, if necessary
- Make 100% sure each vocal line is identically timed in terms of syllables and transients. (Vowel sounds are slightly more forgiving) And it's better to have them sung accurately first time instead of having to drag them around using Flextime!
- Record them in isolation - ideally the singer should just hear the main vox and perhaps a simple percussion line for pulse (or one melodic line if required. The more layers there are, the more the timing will drift)
- Make sure the dynamics are really even. Main vox can be dynamic, but bv's doing it is distracting for the listener.
- If a consonant is proving to be a pain, re-sing it without. (if the work is 'please', just sing 'ease'. You'll be amazed this actually works!)
- Compress them heavily
- Interesting panning can work (and a spacial reverb and/or delay too)
- Loudness shouldn't be as much as the lead vox. I usually end up 50%-75% of the main lead.
- Double track the lead vox while you're about it. Same rules as above except for volume,which will be more like 90% of lead vox volume.
- EQ to taste. Usually less bass and low-mid
- It's really boring sometimes doing lots of layers. But it's always worth it!

And these are the rules. Doing anything different is simply wrong.



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Cassette Electrik

Quote The Elf:

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Good BVs are in the performance. Some of the worst BVs come from lead vocalists in my experience. The art of producing clean, consistent, measured backing vocals is a skill that few seem to truly understand. Too often I'm asked to mix a multi-tracked host of 'lead vocals' that simply do not blend well together.

This said, I often use a dynamic mic, such as MD421 or SM57 for tracking, which can help to place the BVs behind the lead, and backing the singer away from the mic is also valid.

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+1 here. I find that a dynamic mic works better 90% of the time with backing vocals.