I normally write & record fairly busy rock music. For electric bass, I play as low as I can, dig in a bit with the pick, DI the bass & with minimal processing Bob's your uncle. Job Done.

Recently I've been working on a few stripped back acoustic guitar based tracks. Drums, acoustic guitar & vocals sound fine, but whatever I seem to do with the bass it sounds detached & indistinct when I come to mix.

Obviously I'm playing less (and longer) notes, and in a more laid back fashion. So I'm wondering, is the stark nature of the track exposing the fact that my bass guitars aren't up to much (Yamaha RB & Ibanez BTB), or am I simply playing in the wrong register for the style of music? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

DM

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Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

We'd need to hear a clip. Have you tried playing with your fingers?

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http://ryanmead.net

Bit obvious, but have you tried using your fingers rather than a pick? Playing further away from the bridge? Using the neck pickup?

The problem almost certainly isn't your bass. I'm sure I'll get a lot of stick for saying it, but as long as they're properly set up and in tune, basses are much of a muchness.

With an arrangement like that you'll have much less going on at the low end, so you can fill it up with a fatter sound that might be muddy in a more crowded mix. Re-amp it or run it through an amp sim, slap on a bit of compression, maybe a little soft distortion.

Try ducking the midrange a bit -- IME, that's where the "mud" seems to appear. Keep the low range of the bass rich to fill out that end of the spectrum, & the mid-highs to bring in the overtones & attack transients. Now that I think on it, have a run at splitting it over two tracks, so that the lows can get more compression & the mid-highs more limiting, without mucking each other up. I'm more a knob-twiddler than an engineer, but I've got half-decent results with anything from actives in a Washburn XB to a stock MIM Precision.

(Apologies for not having Hz suggestions at-hand. I'm a bit sleepy...)

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resident troublemaker, http://forum.frugalguitarist.com/

Sorry Guys, I should have mentioned that I am playing fingerstyle on these tracks, which given my girly guitarist fingers may also be part of the problem. Perhaps my playing is just a bit too lame given that I'm far from a confident bassist. There just seems to be too much headroom between the bass line & the rest of the track. I suppose I could add a fairly inoccuous keyboard pad but I'd rather try parallel compression, re-amping or switching to the bridge pick-up as you've suggested first. Many thanks DM

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Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

If the bass is indistinct when you're playing fingerstyle, then maybe it's your fingerpicking technique. On bass you'd typically use what on guitar is called a "rest stroke". It's not used as often on guitar bcos it results in the next string down being damped. But on bass you only usually want one string sounding at a time, and the rest stroke technique gives extra oomph to the sound.

Quote Dynamic Mike:

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or am I simply playing in the wrong register for the style of music? Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

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So how does it sound if you play an octave higher?

Hi,
As suggested by others: fingerstyle, more neck pickup, and play with your right hand further away from the bridge (at least in line with the neck pickup). When you play finger style I'd suggest you'd try to play the srings down towards the pickup (as opposed to how guitar strings normally are played) In doing this you need to have short nails and play the string with the very tip of your fingers and rather then pulling them up towards the ceiling (like you might do with guitar) you push them down towards the pickup, and as you are just using the very tip of your finger, the string will release from your finger and start to vibrate. I's not easy for me to explain it by writing, but this will give you a fuller sound that blends better and sound more "Bassy" than most, yet still it is punchy and nice:) If the bass sounds detached from the guitars, try to roll off some of the high mid-high on the bass. And if you want to massage it into place you can even boost the low mid slightly of the guitars (Where it sound good) and cut in the same region from the bass - and boost the low end of the bass as you cut it from the guitars... Hope it makes sense... With acoustic styles, it usually pays to be careful with eq though, practice to play it so that it blends:)

Expanding on the last post - Another thing you can do to make the sound sit better with acoustic instruments is play with your thumb. I don't mean slap of course, just brush the strings with your thumb in a Wes Montgomery style. Also you could stick some foam down at the bridge to deaden the sound and if you wanna go the whole hog, buy some flatwound strings. One of my basses is set up exactly like that

Quote uphillbothways:

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I'm sure I'll get a lot of stick for saying it, but as long as they're properly set up and in tune, basses are much of a muchness.

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Ha, I was just about to write this. By the time you've dropped the tone control enough to take the clacking and squeaking away, most basses just sound like basses. Ditto kick drums, IMO, once you've transient-designed the hell out of 'em and EQed them to kingdom come.

Cheers!

Chris

Quote uphillbothways:

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The problem almost certainly isn't your bass. I'm sure I'll get a lot of stick for saying it, but as long as they're properly set up and in tune, basses are much of a muchness.

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Sorry I believe that that statement is not correct in my experience.

clearly you've never heard a decent bass compared to a rubbish one.
There's a whole world of difference between a german made warwick and IbaYam whatever for example

The bass has a much wider frequency range than a guitar and is way more influenced by the type and quality of wood its made from.

Good recorded bass is actually very difficult to achieve...

Edited by jaminem (09/09/11 02:41 PM)

Quote jaminem:

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Good recorded bass is actually very difficult to achieve...

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This is the story of my life!!!

Dan

Acoustic songs where the bass is exposed can be tricky.
I play with my right hand over the fretboard lightly, and if the strings are new-ish, roll the treble off.
A low action may cause more rattles and fret buzz, so might be worth raising the action for the track.
I find a DI works OK, but now it all comes down to feel in the slow quiet numbers.
Feel it.

Be the bass!

Much of the sound of a recorded bass is in the fingers and how you play it, keeping the notes the right length and including rests is important.


What has worked for me is using a sansamp RBI with a compressor in the insert set to a mild compression. Then you play "to the compressor" which results in a more precise recording. I also take a dry out from the sansamp and mix the two tracks together.

I suspect the OP is just not used to fingerstyle playing, which is different to pick playing in that it is a lot less forgiving if your technique is not quite up to speed.

Quote thefruitfarmer:

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I suspect the OP is just not used to fingerstyle playing, which is different to pick playing in that it is a lot less forgiving if your technique is not quite up to speed.

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Having read everyone's suggestions I suspect you're right! In a rock guitar based mix provided the attack of the bass is spot on, the rest doesn't really matter that much because it's masked. Also I've got used to playing the lowest note available so it doesn't conflict with the guitars. I've got two strings on each bass that have never been played (well not on purpose), whereas I need the bass in these songs to actually contribute to the melody, rather than just re-inforcing the riff.

I think it's time to take a close look at the workman, instead of instinctively blaming the tools. The Ibanez I've inherited, but thinking back, my Yamaha through my amp sounded awesome in the shop, and the only difference was it was being played by someone who knew how to play. I've started to view bass players in a whole new light! By chance I just listened to 'Look what happened the last time' by Less Than Jake, & can't believe how many times I've heard it, without even noticing the bass line 'is' the song.

I foresee a steep learning curve ahead, not just playing with more confidence but also giving more thought to composition. I don't think I can Eq my way out of this problem, or even fix it by throwing money at it. Although there's no incentive quite like a new instrument...

Thanks guys, DM

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Not much in life worth running for. Or from.