Kind of like readers' wives but with less cleavage. Or whatever, I'm easy. So the big thing for me right now is to get away from all this waxing-technical and down to the heart of the matter. Sometimes you'd forget around here that songs are the soul of life, with all this jabber about crest factors and brickwall limiting. These engineering techniques have run roughshod over the delicate landscape of music for far too long. Miss Golightly I must protest. No better place to get back to basics than the hallowed halls of SOS. A simple section - New Music. A place to listen, critique and carnally debauch - if the occasion calls for it - the virgin musings, if you will, of some of us - the erstwhile lost and forgotten bards. This is a call for something simple. A song... a tune... a cry in the dark...

Errmm...

"Production - Mixing, Mastering, Gear & Techniques
... A place to discuss all things to do with music production, ... This is the place to post your links if you are looking for feedback on your own productions, too. "

Thanks Mike,

Spot on

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote Mike Stranks:

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Errmm...

"Production - Mixing, Mastering, Gear & Techniques
... A place to discuss all things to do with music production, ... This is the place to post your links if you are looking for feedback on your own productions, too. "

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My good man, you have understood the opposite of what I was trying to say.

Quote zenguitar:

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Thanks Mike,

Spot on

Andy

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Eh, unfortunately he is quite far off the spot...

Quote ElecTrika-MixTek:

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Re: Any chance of a forum section for Readers' Music?

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No.

..but we have made provision to present and discuss forum member's own music in the Production forum.

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote ElecTrika-MixTek:

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... A place to listen, critique and carnally debauch...

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So please explain how that doesn't fit with the description I posted?

... and might I suggest that if you posted in simple language and didn't use the somewhat psuedo-intellectual and pretentious style that seems to be your trademark then we'd all have a better understanding of what exactly you're seeking to say? Clarity of communication, dear boy; clarity of communication...

I thank you...

Oooh, get you. You will soon be a moderator, Mike. Then think of all that power!

I think the 'dear boy' is right. It's supposed to be about the music. How can you have a god damned recoding forum without a section for music!!!?

Quote ow:

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It's supposed to be about the music.

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Er.... SOS has always been about the technology and technique... actually!

Quote:

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How can you have a god damned recoding forum without a section for music!!!?

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It pains me to say it yet again, but we have made provisions for discussing the many and varied aspects of music in various sub-sections of this forum.

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

If the techie side of things is not what you're looking for, then there's always the Music Theory, Songwriting and Composition forum. Nothing wrong with posting music/instrumentation/arrangement-based questions about your own tracks in there, and techie questions in the Production forum...

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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...Er.... SOS has always been about the technology and technique... actually!

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In relation to...?

Surely Hugh, isn't it the icing on the cake to have a section which showcases all the fantastic music that's been made by the 'community' after buying all the great gear you recommend and using all the great expertise they've gained from the advice given in the forum and publication?

What better advert could there be?

Quote ow:

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Oooh, get you. You will soon be a moderator, Mike. Then think of all that power!

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Thanks for that... you clearly have inside knowledge... you must have been talking to Sue Dunnim/Sheena's Tea Hut/Wes Bridgford who suggested exactly the same thing!

Shall I put the champagne on ice now?

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Quote ElecTrika-MixTek:

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Re: Any chance of a forum section for Readers' Music?

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No.

..but we have made provision to present and discuss forum member's own music in the Production forum.

Hugh

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No? - What a shame.

... yeah, mixing it in with the production forum just doesn't work at all for me. Still, thanks for the reply, I guess I'll just hope something positive materialises as if by magic, as it usually does

Joking aside, i for one really miss that forum. I was never a poster of comments or music, but i did enjoy coming and having a listen and there were some real gems in there - in one place.

There was one track that i still remember from the old days. Can't remember who posted it now but it was called something like 'the suitcase song' and the hook went... "unpack your suitcase love, and stay" Very rough but sublimely beautiful. I still sing it to myself sometimes.

Quote ow:

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i did enjoy coming and having a listen and there were some real gems in there - in one place.

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You can still come and enjoy them, there still are some real gems, and they are still all in one place. It's now called 'Production...'

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Could i then suggest that there be a sticky advising the community to use one of the more obscure and less used icons, say the 'link' icon - to identify posts of this kind?

Because i'm buggered if i can find them - in this 'one place'.

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Quote ow:

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It's supposed to be about the music.

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Er.... SOS has always been about the technology and technique... actually!

Quote:

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How can you have a god damned recoding forum without a section for music!!!?

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It pains me to say it yet again, but we have made provisions for discussing the many and varied aspects of music in various sub-sections of this forum.

Hugh

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It pains a lot of us even more that after all these years we have to come to you cap in hand, time and again, to beg for the most basic accomodations. But whatever, we know, we get it... SOS is a business and we can find another forum somewhere else etc...

Quote ow:

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Surely Hugh, isn't it the icing on the cake to have a section which showcases all the fantastic music that's been made by the 'community' after buying all the great gear you recommend and using all the great expertise they've gained from the advice given in the forum and publication?

What better advert could there be?

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You totally get what I'm saying, my friend. Nice. Fair play. Shame we have to have these petty battles to get down to the only thing that matters - the music...

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Quote ow:

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i did enjoy coming and having a listen and there were some real gems in there - in one place.

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You can still come and enjoy them, there still are some real gems, and they are still all in one place. It's now called 'Production...'

hugh

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Yeah I look in Production... but it's a needle in the haystack scenario - totally useless. Or maybe I should look in the Music Theory, Songwriting and Composition Forum as has been suggested even, or perhaps The Musician Lounge... oh wait no... Music business... or could it be...

Only problem is there is nowhere to go and listen to readers' music in one spot - but let me guess... I don't have a point, I'm being ridiculous and psuedo-intellectual... why bother with the music when we're so busy producing it. Here's news for you buddy, we don't need the gear to make the music - but you need the music to make the gear!

Edited by ElecTrika-MixTek (07/09/11 12:03 PM)

Quote Mike Stranks:

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Quote ElecTrika-MixTek:

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... A place to listen, critique and carnally debauch...

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So please explain how that doesn't fit with the description I posted?

... and might I suggest that if you posted in simple language and didn't use the somewhat psuedo-intellectual and pretentious style that seems to be your trademark then we'd all have a better understanding of what exactly you're seeking to say? Clarity of communication, dear boy; clarity of communication...

I thank you...

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My apologies to ETMT and other readers of this thread...

... the post above was well out of order and I now feel bad about it. Unkind and uncalled-for.

Of course, words said can't be withdrawn, but my apology is sincere.

Buddy... I understand what you're saying, and I understand the reason you're saying it. However, we have made a corporate decision to reduce and streamline the number of forums and sub-forums, and that's where we are right now.

The idea of identifying user music track posts within the Production forum with a dedicated icon is certainly worth considering and we'll look into that possibility.

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Mike Stranks:

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Quote Mike Stranks:

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Quote ElecTrika-MixTek:

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... A place to listen, critique and carnally debauch...

---

So please explain how that doesn't fit with the description I posted?

... and might I suggest that if you posted in simple language and didn't use the somewhat psuedo-intellectual and pretentious style that seems to be your trademark then we'd all have a better understanding of what exactly you're seeking to say? Clarity of communication, dear boy; clarity of communication...

I thank you...

---

My apologies to ETMT and other readers of this thread...

... the post above was well out of order and I now feel bad about it. Unkind and uncalled-for.

Of course, words said can't be withdrawn, but my apology is sincere.

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Mike, you are a gentleman. No apology necessary. It is my custom to provoke people, but with the end of stimulating discussion in mind, so the apology should come from me. I do feel there is a point to all this and if you feel we're good the way we are with the forums, than so be it.

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Buddy... I understand what you're saying, and I understand the reason you're saying it. However, we have made a corporate decision to reduce and streamline the number of forums and sub-forums, and that's where we are right now.

The idea of identifying user music track posts within the Production forum with a dedicated icon is certainly worth considering and we'll look into that possibility.

hugh

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Mate I appreciate you looking into it, I do.

(I remember now who posted the 'suitcase song', it was forumee: Tippex ... fwiw)

Mike, I usually find myself agreeing with you on many topics on this forum, but on this one, not so much. My impression was s.o.s was improving and streamlining the website to increase the popularity or amount of users, or maybe even general interest in the forum. If I'd had a few months being busy and not visited, and came back to find it had changed, I could quite easily find my way around. But the problem is, if I was a 'newcomer' to the website, let's say, looking for somewhere to share my musical ideas I already have created and would like some feedback about, a forum section called 'mixing, mastering and gear selection' isn't somewhere I'd necessarily look. The fact is, you're met with 'Production', and then a dash and a list. Which to a large majority, imo, would indicate that it covers any of the following topics to do with production. Either mixing, mastering, and gear selection. Feedback on your own work is a very different thing even if it does include mixing questions. Most of the times, questions to do with mixing, mastering, and most of all gear selection, there isn't an example. More often just a thought or query that pops into someones head as they ponder the many questions of music technology.

My point is, the way the production section is displayed to someone who just goes to the standard soundonsound.com and follows the forum drop down menus, does not present any indication to posting your own tracks, and in my opinion is more likely to put people off if anything.

Even more specifically I think 'gear selection' deserves it's own sub topics, let alone being grouped with two of the biggest aspects of music technology, mixing and mastering. As Hugh has said, this is a forum dedicated to technology and technique. If mastering, mixing, gear selection AND looking for advice on your own material are all grouped into one section, whilst 'guitar technology' still gets its own section then I'm baffed. The amount of money spent on gear, the legendary battles between certain 'fans' of companies. The amount of different mix techniques. The amount of books and dark magical secrets of mastering. How deep all of these are rooted in the progression of technology and techniques. Yet they get grouped together whilst guitar technology get's it's own section. There are many more challenging instruments out there to improve your technology and techniques on. Yet guitar is the only place that get's it's own section whilst these huge topics do not.

I fear you are classifying such huge topics, in the same way logic has summarised mastering into an output channel preset.

Christian.

we used to have a My Sound Files section. loads of people posted songs, but only a handful of people ever commented. as far as i'm concerned, having the posts in the main Production forum is a better idea. should get more traffic and there's more chance of useful, constructive criticism.

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

you know - this is the only thing i miss to be honest
I'm not doing well with finding songs in the production section
there was a kinda good community thing going on with the song posting section
And i very much agree with the streamlining of the forums - its working well

cept for this part -
which i miss
so there


there is something about soundcloud for subscribers? - is this happening - cause an sos forumee/subscriber soundcloud section may well answer everyones wishes!!

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http://soundcloud.com/seaapes

Quote ow:

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Could i then suggest that there be a sticky advising the community to use one of the more obscure and less used icons, say the 'link' icon - to identify posts of this kind?

Because i'm buggered if i can find them - in this 'one place'.

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That's an excellent idea ow, and one I've just put into practice to see if it helps, by changing requests for song feedback in the first couple of pages of the Production forum to use the very rarely used 'link' icon (since every one of these posts has a link to the song in question )

This post also has this icon (see above)

See if this helps - it's certainly obvious in the Production forum which threads are song feedback requests

Any good?

If people like this then I'll ask the powers that be to redesign the icon in another colour to make it stand out even more


Martin

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YewTreeMagic