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Assuming for a second... I'm the best thing since sliced bread (which of course I'm not).

Say.. If my music and song were to really take off? What bases would i need to have covered with regard to exposing my songs to the world for the very first time?

Ideally how many songs would i need, in the can so to speak (mixed mastered etc..)? How many songs would be considered as a reasonable backup to sustain a little longevity at the start of my career?

The Killers seem to be able to consistently produce awesome albums quite fast, as if it was no big deal to them.
Is this down to their incredible talent or did they have 600 songs stashed away somewhere were only so many of them were good enough to make the grade?

Tear For Fears too... What the hell happened to them?? They were amazing.. then they just seemed to disappear. Did they dry up or did they just get fed up with the whole thing? Their music was so good... its still valid to this day.


Album art? Singles Art? How hard should i make my graphic artist work without pissing him off too much. He's not getting paid at the moment but genuinely loves my music/songs & kinda wants to be a part of it?

Should I start out with a single, EP or Mini Album.. which seems to be all the rage these days?

I've noticed a continuing trend here in NI of bands only releasing EP's and Singles initially.

Is this a common delivery method across the board or is it a sign that the said artists/bands really don't have enough big hitters readily available to make them stand out in what is essentially a very cluttered market?
Because of the likes of itunes... is the album format truly dead?

At what stage (if at all) do you need to engage the services of a Music Lawyer? They seem to pop up offering their services at all of the fabulous music seminars we have here. Are they an extravagance or are they only really necessary when dealing with a Major/Indie Label?

I guess what I'm really trying to assess here is the actual cost in terms of time, effort and finance in order to do it on my own?

I have my own studio (Mac based) so no real (continued) cost there. Though I may have to outsource mixing and mastering duties if I later decide that I'm not good or confident enough at either.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated..


Sthum.........




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You've asked far too many questions in one post. People write whole books to answer the questions you posed...and still get it wrong!

There is not one path, no single way, no one right answer. You cannot say if you follow these steps a,b,c...etc you will have a succesful music career. It doesn't work that way.

Beware of anyone who offers you the answer(s) for a fee.

So much of it is not in your hands to influence, so concentrate on what is within your power to change and imoprove, which basically is your music, presentation, performance and just as important...networking skills.

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Quote sthum:

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How many songs would be considered as a reasonable backup to sustain a little longevity at the start of my career? The Killers seem to be able to consistently produce awesome albums quite fast, as if it was no big deal to them. Is this down to their incredible talent or did they have 600 songs stashed away somewhere were only so many of them were good enough to make the grade?

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One album a year on average...not bad but not especially prolific. I'd have thought most artists write as they go. I should concentrate on one at a time.

Quote sthum:

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Tears For Fears too... What the hell happened to them?? They were amazing.. then they just seemed to disappear. Did they dry up or did they just get fed up with the whole thing.

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They fell out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tears_for_Fears

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The Killers ... awesome albums

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One of these things is not like the others.

There is no career path. Best way to do it is by accident.

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Stand by for action - we are about to launch Stingray!
Cue irritating bongo music ...

Quote Commander:

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There is no career path. Best way to do it is by accident.

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Quite.

One aspect of my career took off simply because a new synth I'd bought was faulty. Took it back to the company's HQ to be swapped over, got chatting with the MD and he took me on.

Another was because, when working for that company, I met a chap in a lift and we got chatting, exchanged phone numbers - he knew someone who needed my services and voila ... took me off in a new direction!!

Hmmmm ... that could be read with a lot of innuendo...



Many, many ears ago, I worked with a band. We slogged our arses off doing all the right things and getting nowhere. Then one day, the singer was in a swanky pub in London, saw some he thought he recognised as a top pop vid producer, introduced himself, bought him a pint, got chatting, gave him a cassette. Next thing we knew, we were in a top London studio and were having a snazzy pop vid being made. But it came to nothing - on the verge of signing but some band members got arsey and the whole thing fizzled out.

It's pretty much how this business works! Which is why there's no prescribed route!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

The Killers first album is fantastic, everything else....oh dear.

Again, we have an infinite number of variables at play. I quite like the idea of singles at first to keep reminding people that you are 'there', you'd be surprised in this day and age how quickly people get diverted and can forget. For the stuff that I'm involved in, alas no one buys singles, digital or physical. Albums is still where its at (what people want to buy and what you can actually make money from), one a year.

My biggest advice is if something doesn't work...change it. Keep changing your musical style and eventually you might hit upon something that people connect with and want to listen to/buy.

One way that I think would be a nice idea is releasing "singles" per say locally and perform your top songs in the local area, focus on the reaction from each song. Take the top crowd favorites, keep releasing new songs until you have 12-14 songs that will be the best of the 30 that you've created. Then, when shopping your material around, you are handing out 12 singles basically and if someone looks at the CD, plays the first song, loves it, decides to skip through, and keeps hearing winners, there's really no match. I see this as one of the few ways we can bring "Album" sales back.

Killers: great first album made for a small indie label quite local to me. Downhill all the way since they moved to a major. I'd say they're history.

TFF: one of them wanted to spend 5 years micro-editing every note of every track before releasing an album, while the other's view was sod it, let's just write a new song or two and move on.

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Dynamite with a laser beam...

Ultimately, you have to get in contact with people in the industry who are doing it at the level you want to be at. I will aim for that myself.

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Visit my Youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/freakingidol

yeahs thats exactly what we are doing frikkinidiot youve got to be in it to win it in it and another thing trevor always toaught me aws to hang on to theyre coat tails and he was right another thing which is improtant is persistence because geof our tutor at colledge always said that something to do with the three p s and that persistnec was one of them and something about that made all the difference

alam.

Alan - yeah I'm with you buddy...persistence is where its at but like anything, don't overdo it...and same with the p's ...cos like 2 p's in the hand are worth 1 in the bush...and 3 doesn't really come in to it.

hth

Quote Commander:

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There is no career path. Best way to do it is by accident.

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dead right mate

thats how stephanies dad got a job on the fish counter at adsa - before that he was was a pro body biulder (until he carlessly dropped 50kg on his foot)

he walks with a limp now and the only muscles he handels are fresh from grimsby

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www.colinskuttler.com

One extremely important thing you can do? Learn the ins and outs of the *business* end of this stuff: publishing, licensing, what to sign and what not to sign. Books like "This Business of Music" are dry, but necessary info. If you don't know where the money comes from, you won't make any. And if you can't name all of the income chains that can result from the exploitation of a song, then you won't know to not sign them away. Important stuff.

Kerry

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www.matthewcracknell.com

Quote colin s:

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he walks with a limp now and the only muscles he handels are fresh from grimsby

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Hehe

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"insert witty comment about drummers or hob-nobs"

Quote Mash:

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asbolutely

but lets not forget faiulre works in exactly the same way too - like hearsay would of been straight down but art garfuknel would of been the twisty turny one

(btw really like you're website mash if you wanna swap links pm me)

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www.colinskuttler.com

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fjrnb.blogspot.com%2F2009%2F01 %2Fstay-in-college-guide-to-proactive-mid_15.html&h=iAQERujPOAQHmLXWuydWYYmWXKFbPRHcqO 9YkAoNj5KYOVA


read this and thought its about as honest as it gets

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www.myspace.com/onemanandalaptop

It seems very serendipitous to me. But here goes... You need songs that sound like a product that will sell. You need to have a look that will sell and you need an image for your music to sell it.

Then that viability needs to be put in the hands of a person with access to a person who can monetize within the industry and build your exposure for financial gain. This is where you seek out a music lawyer who will get you connected to the right people.

But all of that means nothing if you are making music that requires lots of gigging. In which case, you need to be able to entertain inspire and direct the attention of your audience appropriately.

It's a matter of legend building and appropriate PR and glamour or authenticity winning over people.

I dunno what it's like in Ireland but the last time I went to the UK I saw some amazing performances and playing. All amazingly performed by bands with amazing sonics and chemistry! I was delighted to see it but no bugger was there to see it. The lesson is to always look for gigs that aren't run of the mill. Every gig is an opportunity to take a step forward but it needs to be good exposure.

Sorry to be completely OT...BUT...will somebody finally put this to bed once and for all...is ColinS just one massive p*ss take or what..?!?!? I'm having trouble even contemplating that this guy is anything even approaching serious. His website...FFS..!!! His music..HOLY SH*T..!!! Either comedy brilliance or one seriously seriously deluded individual. Which is it..???!!!???

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Mac G5 Dual 2.3/6gb Ram, MOTU 828mkII, Yamaha 02r, DBX 286A, Logic 8, Roland SRV-3030D, Roland JV-1080, Roland JV-1010, Emu Proteus 2000, Roland SC55 MK2, Tascam DA-30 MK2

Quote infiniteloop:

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Sorry to be completely OT...BUT...will somebody finally put this to bed once and for all...is ColinS just one massive p*ss take or what..?!?!? I'm having trouble even contemplating that this guy is anything even approaching serious. His website...FFS..!!! His music..HOLY SH*T..!!! Either comedy brilliance or one seriously seriously deluded individual. Which is it..???!!!???

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apologies to the op but i must respond

andrew - never have i been so hurt by a remark on this forum

i have been here several years now and this was water under the bridge many moons ago so thanks for brigning it up again and opening all those old wounds

im as real as its possible to be real and the proof of the pudding simply is a) the numerous testinomials on my site from satisfied cleints b) the large body of publsihed music library material now out their c) the large number of real friends i have made on this forum like phil kev glynn desmond and even my new friend narco who didnt believe i was real to start with - all top pros in the music industry and all willing to provide proof of my legitimancy

yes to begin with admitedly i was a perhaps not that good but that is two years ago now and things are very much difrent and in fact only this week i sent a demo off to kpm - and lets not forget i did once make it to number 4 on soundclick in the acoustic section

as for the website trevor has been unavailable for several months but has promised to update the site upon his release

i await you're apology with some interest and shall delay reporting you to the mods until such a time that one is frothcoming

colin

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www.colinskuttler.com

Come on "infiniteloop", where is your British sense of humour? Of course it is a joke, and a little tiring by now, but still it offers quite a few gems: the "testimonials" ("... diffrent angel", from 'john - London'; or "the bloke who works in the music shop said I am good".

"What we do" is a bit less funny, because the (mis)spellings are very predictable, what you expect a politician to write about when belittling an inner city 'boy, innit?'.

The best bit is left for last, "the Credits", e.g. "worked with fellow student kenny lang on his short film 'egg power' i did a short intro of breakbeat type music"

or the various entries such as "sent some music to someone".. type.

You have to give to him that he spent sometime to set this up, keep and pay for web address and server... but the joke.. it's running a bit thin now, me thinks mate.

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www.bugiolacchi.com
Songwriter/guitarist

My 'British' sense of humour is alive & well, though possibly a tad on the cynical side as I'm Scottish However in this world of X-Factor/BGT fast track to fame and a seemingly endless queue of self-deluded nutcases ready & willing to appear on these shows, I was wholly undecided what side of the madness/genius line Colin S was on. Cheers for clearing that up, and I agree, it's all becoming too predictable now.

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Mac G5 Dual 2.3/6gb Ram, MOTU 828mkII, Yamaha 02r, DBX 286A, Logic 8, Roland SRV-3030D, Roland JV-1080, Roland JV-1010, Emu Proteus 2000, Roland SC55 MK2, Tascam DA-30 MK2

i dont know how anyone can acuse me of being preditable

based on the above comments rest assured I deffo wont be posting here agian

im outa here

bye evryone

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www.colinskuttler.com

I feel sorry for the grief poor Colin S is getting. He's obviously a young guy working hard to make it in this crazy business and, for me, his contributions to the forum are always welcome.

In the words of the great Louis Walsh "I love his energy, I love his enthusiasm" and hope he will post here again.

W.

I would rather have colin than not......

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My head hurts!

Quote infiniteloop:

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Sorry to be completely OT...BUT...will somebody finally put this to bed once and for all...is ColinS just one massive p*ss take or what..?!?!? I'm having trouble even contemplating that this guy is anything even approaching serious. His website...FFS..!!! His music..HOLY SH*T..!!! Either comedy brilliance or one seriously seriously deluded individual. Which is it..???!!!???

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Am i missing something here.... will someone please explain... what is the above quote all about?




Sthum.........





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Quote sthum:

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Quote infiniteloop:

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Sorry to be completely OT...BUT...will somebody finally put this to bed once and for all...is ColinS just one massive p*ss take or what..?!?!? I'm having trouble even contemplating that this guy is anything even approaching serious. His website...FFS..!!! His music..HOLY SH*T..!!! Either comedy brilliance or one seriously seriously deluded individual. Which is it..???!!!???

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Am i missing something here.... will someone please explain... what is the above quote all about?




Sthum.........





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I read it to mean that infinteloop was asking what your original post was about. I think he didn't understand. Seemed clear enough to me.

As for all the bad language, not sure what that was all about. Maybe he was stuck in a loop and having an infinitely bad day haha

i thought it was a bit wierd as well...

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www.myspace.com/onemanandalaptop

I've used Colin's services many times for music for my Dad's car showroom. There is no-one better in the lower Yorkshire area at that price level.

"The more you think about something the less likely you are to ever do it"

one thing you havent mentioned is, does anyone else think you are the best thing since sliced bread? and fans? who are you offering it to?

you have to pretty much have all boxes ticked now and be making noise around the place without anyones help.

good luck and just go do it, think on route

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J90
Sonic Visions