Hi,
My PC was in service for a very long time, over a year and a half, and it was returned with a different processor than the one that came with the PC originally. I bought the PC with a Q9450 but it came back from service with Q9300.

I have looked for a comparison between these two processors and the main differences are:
Q9450 2.66Ghz 12Mb cache
Q9300 2.5Ghz 6Mb cache

Also, I have found out that apparently the Q9300 runs significantly cooler than the Q9450.

The question is, should I worry? Is there a significant difference for audio applications?
My brief search online also showed that there isn't a real difference performance wise, but the tests weren't done with audio programs, so I wonder if that extra cache plays part in audio related tasks. Also, there is a difference in the clock speed as well, not significant but still there.

I'm asking here, as the thought of sending the PC back to the same guy to be looked at again feels me with dread, as I might not see it for another 'eternity'. However, at the same time I don't want to be cheated and end up with inferior spec than the one I ordered and paid for originally.

The Q9450 was more expensive at the time, and I remember thinking that I better get the best I can afford at the time, and yet here I am with a much cheaper processor. Does the guy owe me money? This is half serious half rhetorical question...


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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

dude,

you got hosed. cache size is one of the biggest factors in performance. and as for 18 months, i'm currently going thru a similar nightmare with an old keyboard i left on consignment at a used gear store nearby, which they broke, then it took a year to get fixed, and is still not on the display floor. your situation is worse, though, in that 18 months is an entire product cycle in PCs - twice the performance, same price. so you've been doubly hosed.

tell this clown who 'fixed' your machine that you're going to write him up on craigslist, start a website denouncing his work ethic and his ethic ethic (ie, honesty) unless he makes you right for both the processor switch and the unconscionable delay.

btw, if i seem a bit steamed by your story, it's cause i just returned from my used gear store, where when i inquired if maybe the keyboard, having been fixed for 3 months now, could just possibly be put on the floor, and was met with the response "oh, you wanted that?" to which i wanted to reply, no, i thought we'd leave it in your backroom and age some more, like vintage wine, and see if in a few years it might get any better. but i didn't. thank god i don't own any firearms (this is the US southwest i'm in, guns everywhere.)

rant over. but remember: no justice, no peace!

cheers,

d

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"Patsy had the drug tolerance of Keith Richards and the moral rectitude of Brian Jones." - Dr. Walter Bishop, "Fringe"

So cache memory would be important... I need to balance this right as either I'm going to leave it and keep the Q9300, or try to get my Q9450 back (or heaven forbid, go to small claims court, as I've had enough with this guy - a well respected member of the SOS forum and the audio PC world!)

The issue is... I have started to install all my audio plugins on the desktop PC, some of these plugins require online challange/response autorisation, if I keep the Q9300, i will be ok, but if I install all software and then end up with the Q9450, I may need to re-authorise the whole lot again as the plugins may complain due to a system change! However I dread running out of C/R autorisation permissions. Not good...so I suppose I need to halt the installation process and see what happens.

Quote:

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your situation is worse, though, in that 18 months is an entire product cycle in PCs - twice the performance, same price. so you've been doubly hose

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yes, I'm fully aware of that, sadly. But there you go, nothing I can do but try to use this PC fully now. I suppose it is still more than ok for my needs. I had to work on a 'measly' Core 2 Duo 1.8ghz laptop for all that time, so having my Quad back is great. So much CPU power at last, nice!

Sorry to hear about your situation too.

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

I respect your integrity, but don't you think maybe you ought to "name names" so that other members of this forum do not get similarly shafted?

For one reason or another, i can assure you that nobody will be in similar trouble like me. At the moment, all I need to find out is, if the difference between the two processors is big enough to make it worthwhile 'hassling' him for my Q9450. So I need to get more answers and then decide.

The 'funny' thing is, I wouldn't have found out that my Q9450 has been replaced 'illegaly', however I needed to supply PC spec for a beta testing job, and didn't remember if the processor was named Q9540 or Q9450. Imagine my surprise when I found out that my Q9450 has been replaced with a Q9300!

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

Quote himalaya:

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Hi,
My PC was in service for a very long time, over a year and a half,

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Sorry, I couldn't get past this statement.

FWIW, both chips are so old they're as rare as hens teeth to buy.

The replaced chip is slightly slower, but thats akin to saying Stella is stronger than Heineken.

Great service from this shop!

I'd like to know who they were also, I have an old Q9500 I need downgrading, no hurry...

They are old, yes, but enough for me to run my projects on.

Anyway, so you are saying that there is no significant difference.
So far there are two people with conflicting points of view. It's not helping in my decision making.

Quote:

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I'd like to know who they were also, I have an old Q9500 I need downgrading, no hurry...

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You can always send it to me, I'll gladly offload my Q9300.

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

hi,

couple of thoughts: first, to better inform your decision, search for benchmarks of audio performance for the two chips. they were almost certainly done back when they came out and should be findable - if google fails, post a query here and i'm certain some SoSer can point you in the right direction.

second, if the guy is reputable, then *probably* what happened is that he downgraded you because he simply couldn't get your machine to not overheat w/t original chip. i have a dell P4 laptop that repeated service attempts never solved this problem. my guess would be that he tried a bunch of stuff over the 18 months, nothing worked, and in despair he just did the switch. that said...

it's not cool that he switched w/o clearing it with you, nor that he had the machine 18 months. if he's a standup guy, he should admit that and given your issue w/t authorizations he should work with you to make things work. assuming he didn't just forget about your job but rather spent lots of hours trying to fix the problem and finally threw in the towel and just switched processors, he's probably none too fond of your machine at this point and not eager to resume working on it, even if you did want to part with it again for more work and a switch back to the original processor.

one of the best ways of dealing with these situations is to avoid escalation and rather try to find a mutually acceptable compromise. ask him how he'd feel if he were in your shoes and ask him if there is anything he would be willing to do to make things right, such as comping you future service (on a different system ;-) or maybe some h/w or something. as it is, i think the consensus here is that you were screwed.

what's a total drag is that i'm sure you just want to make music, not fight a war. sigh.

d

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"Patsy had the drug tolerance of Keith Richards and the moral rectitude of Brian Jones." - Dr. Walter Bishop, "Fringe"

Quote Stickybud:

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Quote himalaya:

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Hi,
My PC was in service for a very long time, over a year and a half,

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Sorry, I couldn't get past this statement.

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Indeed!

You know that if you submit a machine under warranty for a repair the's a 30 day limit and then your entitled to negoiate a refund? Admittedly if that wasn't under warranty, things are slightly different but seriously 18 months?!?!

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Quad+Q9450+%40+ 2.66GHz

If you look at this benchmark page, you'll see that in terms of raw power, they are rated as 4047 VS 3783 with Passmark. That's 93% the power of your original CPU.

I honestly believe you'll be just fine with your CPU.
If your projects are too much of a strain for it, the other one wouldn't do much better!

The only variable for which I don't know the importance of the impact is the cache size, but I doubt this is a deal breaker.

Have a nice day.

Thanks boromir,
So what would that extra 6Mb of cache do in audio related apps?

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

Hi Peter,
There was no question of the 30 day warranty option. I had the PC for at least a year before it needed to go back to be serviced. There are a couple of reasons (of sorts) why it took the guy so long, hence I've remained civil through out and have not vented here on the forum. Still, all my suggestions of taking the PC off his hands and using somebody else were met with silence. Then the discovery that the CPU has been changed without any prior information/agreement. That's not good at all.

I've had two audio PCs made by two separate pro audio makers in my time and both companies have screwed me over.

It's amazing in all of this that my poor little Acer TravelMate laptop has been the most reliable and satisfactory of all my PCs to date. In fact I got used to it so much over the last two years that going over to my desktop with its huge monitor feels weird.

And get this, just two weeks ago I had a 'little' accident, where some of my rack effects positioned on a shelf above my workspace, fell down right on the laptop (don't even ask why and how) which then fell down on the floor. I had a virtual heart attack when I saw this, as all my current projects were on that laptop...and yet it works! Damage? Two small but deep cuts in the monitor - but it works - it's not shattered, one key lost its top cover - but it works, and there are two sharp dents on the top body above the keyboard. Everything works so far! So yeah, I do recommend the TravelMate series, as they are built like tanks. I can vouch for that! :-)

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

Build your own machine next time! If you can play with lego, you can build a pc.

I would've had the place up in grand fashion, if not returned with 2 weeks...

I have been thinking the same: in the future it's probably the best approach, first learn, then build, learn to trouble shoot, be happy.

My 2 year old is good with lego, he could help me too.

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

Hi himalaya!

Glad to hear you finally got your machine back, and I suspect boromir's answer is spot on - don't worry about that CPU change, and get on and enjoy your quad-core machine again.

Here are some guidelines for your next build:



Hope it helps!


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Hi Martin,
Thank you for the re-assurance.
Also, that photo will make my son very happy. I now realize that I could leave the next PC build to him.


I suppose, when it is time to upgrade the memory, I need to take it apart block by block?

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www.electric-himalaya.com
VST and hardware synth sound design

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YewTreeMagic