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TheChorltonWheelie



Joined: 22/09/09
Posts: 1072
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: James Perrett]
      #954784 - 22/11/11 11:52 AM
Quote James Perrett:

The Nady uses piezo drivers for the horn so can simply be classed as junk.




+1 to that, and even if they'd used proper drivers I think we can class Nady generally as junk.


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seablade



Joined: 21/11/04
Posts: 4010
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #954795 - 22/11/11 12:30 PM
Quote maiki:

Seablade--you write that the Soundcraft Notepads have been discontinued. But they sure have them on Musicians Friend at close-out prices. The Notepad 102 only $49, I think the 104 is $79, and the 104fx is $99. So for the same price as the lowest Yamaha one could get the highest end Notepad--the 104fx, which has a lot of effects. Would you still recommend the Yamaha 102c over the Soundcraft Notepad 104fx, at the same price?




1. You actually get the Yamaha cheaper(The 102c without effects)
2. The Yamaha has compression which for speakers, and particularly non-professional speakers, and little kids will make a huge difference.

So yes I do for this case. Do I for every case? Not at all, I love the notepads for submixers and for monitors for headphones, etc. And yes you are correct MF does still have them for decent prices, but yes Soundcraft did discontinue them apparently. It has been very tempting to pick up a couple now to last me for a while.

Seablade


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seablade



Joined: 21/11/04
Posts: 4010
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: TheChorltonWheelie]
      #954797 - 22/11/11 12:33 PM
Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

Quote James Perrett:

The Nady uses piezo drivers for the horn so can simply be classed as junk.




+1 to that, and even if they'd used proper drivers I think we can class Nady generally as junk.




Agreed. I would tend to stay away from most things Peavey as well since that was linked to. Based off reviews around here I would be willing to give the TrueSonics a try, but I do know those ELX's will sound good out of the box even with no EQ(Obviously I would prefer to have EQ on them but that isn't much of an option here) and I prefer them over most any plastic enclosure I have heard.

Seablade


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maiki



Joined: 08/08/08
Posts: 52
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #954816 - 22/11/11 02:24 PM
Sorry, did not notice that those Peaveys are passive.

The lowest price speaker stands I have yet seen are here: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/musicians-gear-standard-speaker -stand/451036000035000

$20 each.

Considering in this case not to be used by a touring band, but probably about twice a year in school performances, do you think these would be OK? Or too cvappy for any use at all?

The next up in price at MF are these: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/musicians-gear-speaker-stand-pa ir/360873000000000 A set of two stands for $60.

I would only be concerned that the stands aer stable, will not fall down during a show or something. As mentioned, I personally own the Peavey Escort, and have used that in school performances before. It comes with two very thin stands that can fit in its case. Although that adds to portability, those stands are very flimsy, and more than once when a child has accidentaly brused up against one (with speaker on it), it fell over.So, I do want better stands than come with the Peavey Escort. But they can be pretty low end, as long as they function and are stable.


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10774
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #954835 - 22/11/11 04:01 PM
Most speaker stands are fairly lightly made but the $20 ones seem to have a good load rating so they're probably as good as any other budget stand. One quick way to make them more stable might be to hang a sandbag or two over the stays near the bottom but I tend to try to put speaker stands in corners where people don't want to walk past them.

Bear in mind that the speakers that we are talking about will be heavier than your Peaveys which are very light.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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maiki



Joined: 08/08/08
Posts: 52
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: seablade]
      #954917 - 23/11/11 08:52 AM
Isn't the Yamaha 102c selling at about $99. As said, you can get the Notepad 104fx from MF now for that same price. I have not explored what effects come with the Notepad 104fx, but I would guess one of them would be compression, no/

Or would compression as an effect not be as good as the one built into the Yamahas?


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maiki



Joined: 08/08/08
Posts: 52
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: James Perrett]
      #954926 - 23/11/11 09:57 AM
Do you think there would be a difference between those $20 speaker stands on MF, and their $30 ones? (They don't sell individual $30 stands, but two for $60.)

I saw a different one on B&H audio (or maybe the same?) for a pair of two for $50.

I don't know if there is any difference other than price.


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10774
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #954952 - 23/11/11 12:57 PM
Quote maiki:

I have not explored what effects come with the Notepad 104fx, but I would guess one of them would be compression, no/





The effects module on these things is normally intended for digital reverb/delay effects rather than compression/eq. You also get more than one channel of compression on the Yamaha and (while I've not used either personally) the Yamaha seems to get better user reports.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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maiki



Joined: 08/08/08
Posts: 52
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #954970 - 23/11/11 02:40 PM
From the recommendations, it looks like the main components for a decent low cost passive mixer-active speaker PA might be the Yamaha 102c mixer, and the Alto Truesonics speakers, 12 or 15? How many would agree on that?


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maiki



Joined: 08/08/08
Posts: 52
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #955382 - 26/11/11 12:00 AM
Hi-

I would like some input into that last qusetion I asked. Whether the Truesonics active 12 and the Yamaha 102c might be considered a decent system for the situation I described?

One poster wrote earlier that he thought getting an all-in-one system like the Peavey Escort or Yamaha Stagepas would be a better systme than an under-$1000 compnent system. If that person is still reading, do you still think that an all-in-one system like those two would be better than the system I described in the first paragraph? For one thing, the all-in-ones are all passive speakers-powered mixer. But most here recommended the opposite. The Yamaha 102c appears to be a better mixer than that with Stagepas. And the reviews I found for the truesonics say they are excellent for the price,

Your opinion?


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maiki



Joined: 08/08/08
Posts: 52
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #955731 - 27/11/11 08:33 AM
No further comments


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maiki



Joined: 08/08/08
Posts: 52
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #955793 - 27/11/11 05:27 PM
The board won't let me edit the last post any more, it says "maximum time to edit expired" when I try.

So writing this post to point out that there should have been a question mark at the end of the sentence in the prior post. It was a question, not a statement.

It shold have read:

"No further comments?"


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James PerrettModerator



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Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #955890 - 28/11/11 10:25 AM
I think the problem is that not many of us have used the Alto speakers - and those that have seem to have disappeared. So the safest advice I can give is to see if you can find someone who can give you a demo of the Alto speakers.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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TheChorltonWheelie



Joined: 22/09/09
Posts: 1072
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: James Perrett]
      #955891 - 28/11/11 10:31 AM
Quote James Perrett:

I think the problem is that not many of us have used the Alto speakers




There's a view in this month's SOS, which is quite favourable. I have a small setup now, 2 * 15 tops and 2 * 15 subs, so I'll give it a good run-out and see what it's like. At the moment, I'm still quite impressed, the only thing I think I'll find myself reporting about is the reliability as from a sound perspective it's very good (for the money).

We spent a few hours with EQ and crossovers, to get the best sound we could from them (which was pretty good), and then dropped back to completely flat and to be honest that test showed that they're well setup out of the box. The solo/duo/DJ market will go bananas for these, cheap reliable power, and good sounding for that matter too.


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seablade



Joined: 21/11/04
Posts: 4010
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #955986 - 28/11/11 06:13 PM
Quote maiki:

Isn't the Yamaha 102c selling at about $99. As said, you can get the Notepad 104fx from MF now for that same price. I have not explored what effects come with the Notepad 104fx, but I would guess one of them would be compression, no/

Or would compression as an effect not be as good as the one built into the Yamahas?




The Yamaha actually can be gotten cheaper, again feel free to PM me and I will point you to a place to get it. And no compression as an effect is not the same in this case sorry.

Seablade


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seablade



Joined: 21/11/04
Posts: 4010
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #955989 - 28/11/11 06:22 PM
Quote maiki:

No further comments?




It was more that I was trying to enjoy actually taking a couple days off for the holiday;)

Quote:


Whether the Truesonics active 12 and the Yamaha 102c might be considered a decent system for the situation I described?

One poster wrote earlier that he thought getting an all-in-one system like the Peavey Escort or Yamaha Stagepas would be a better systme than an under-$1000 compnent system.





Would I consider it 'decent'? Probably not, sorry. But could it be considered usable? It might be. Personally I find the EQ on the Yamaha boards to be less than ideal(This applies to most any 3 band EQ in my experience until you get into much more costly EQs), but in this case I would also bet they don't get used much either. I haven't used the TrueSonics to tell you for certain one way or the other which would be better between them and the StagePas. The reviews on these forums would indicate they would be, but I always take any recommendation with a grain of salt until I can hear them. Sadly I suspect hearing those will be difficult for you to say the least, though you could probably demo the StagePAS at a local store without to much difficulty.

The thing the StagePAS does have going for it though is ease of breakdown and setup, which due to its design is slightly less confusing than piecing a system together. Not a whole lot, mind you, just slightly. And honestly with nothing in the system I would consider really 'decent' it means that to me there is less benefit going with a passive mixer vs a powered mixer, as was discussed earlier in the thread, primarily because at some point you are most likely going to be replacing the majority of the system, and the speakers anyways make up the majority of the cost. So as a result, even if the TrueSonics provide a slightly better sound(And it sounds like that is at least true if not more than slightly better) I might still stick with the StagePAS as a recommendation given the lack of skilled operators and need for someone unskilled to be able to set it up personally.

So if you can get a demo of those Alto speakers(Sorry I don't know any dealers that deal with them to recommend you contact, and generally for something that cheap you need to find someone near you and go to them) and compare them to the StagePAS, I would do it. Beyond that as James said, it is difficult for anyone to be able to give a straight answer.

Seablade


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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
Posts: 10774
Loc: The wilds of Hampshire
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: seablade]
      #956103 - 29/11/11 10:13 AM
Quote seablade:


The thing the StagePAS does have going for it though is ease of breakdown and setup, which due to its design is slightly less confusing than piecing a system together. Not a whole lot, mind you, just slightly.




It is worth remembering that for many applications you may not need a mixer if you go for the Altos. You can plug a mic and an mp3 player straight into one of them for simple announcements or music and they can be linked together with an XLR cable. You only need to break out the mixer when you want more than two mics.

I use my dB Technologies actives on their own more often than I use them with a mixer.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net


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seablade



Joined: 21/11/04
Posts: 4010
Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: James Perrett]
      #956141 - 29/11/11 12:40 PM
Quote James Perrett:

Quote seablade:


The thing the StagePAS does have going for it though is ease of breakdown and setup, which due to its design is slightly less confusing than piecing a system together. Not a whole lot, mind you, just slightly.




It is worth remembering that for many applications you may not need a mixer if you go for the Altos. You can plug a mic and an mp3 player straight into one of them for simple announcements or music and they can be linked together with an XLR cable. You only need to break out the mixer when you want more than two mics.

I use my dB Technologies actives on their own more often than I use them with a mixer.

James.




While true of many powered speakers(Including the EVs I mentioned above), I don't trust it for many reasons. One, basic EQ, even two band, can do the world to clean up muddy vocals(Although I obviously prefer a 4 band dual sweepable which does a much better job). Two, you certainly don't have the compression that will be very useful in this circumstance if you go this route. Three gain != volume, and this doesn't help clear that up, meaning it is very easy for someone to go, oh this music isn't loud enough, and crank up the gain into distortion. I would much rather have a basic mixer than none at all.

Seablade


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Sam Spoons
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Re: Passive mixer with powered speakers, or powered mixer with passive speakers? new [Re: maiki]
      #1016016 - 29/10/12 10:19 AM
Alto Trusonic review here http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec11/articles/ato-truesonic-115a.htm it is for the 15's but is very favourable. I hope to buy a couple of 12's myself but not for a few weeks.


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