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Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea
      #955100 - 24/11/11 11:33 AM
well, Apple, it looks like you're about to wave goodbye to a lot of users....


such is the removal of service functionality, and system support, that users in their droves are choosing to leave Apple.... replacing their iPhones with Androids, and Macs with PC's


since iCloud REQUIRES, Lion.... anyone either not wanting to run Lion, or unable to run Lion, is having the previous functionality taken away from them on their macs...


making decent multi function sync between iOS device and an older Mac impossible by cloud, moving back to the days of having to manually sync devices

and even those that are running , or going to be running Lion, are facing a hugely reduced feature set......


at which point much of the convenience and integrated feature set that made choosing Mac+ iOS a bit of a no brainer is gone..... and in a rolling systems replacement program, one may as well save the money and get a PC and Android devices.... and use google.... it actually works better......



i note that i have now got several high profile corporate client cases where this is actively on the table for the tech planners, and i can find no reason to argue against it....

this is not 1's or even 10's but 100's of users , being corporately removed from the apple user base, and taking their business elsewhere.....

extrapolating that globally, i'd suggest this change is potentially going to cost apple 10's of thousands of corporate customers.

fecking stupid Apple....


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ken long



Joined: 21/01/08
Posts: 4649
Loc: The Orient, East London
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955105 - 24/11/11 11:57 AM
Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

use google.... it actually works better......





--------------------
I'm All Ears.


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4412
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955106 - 24/11/11 11:57 AM
I have an iPhone running OS5 and a G5 running Leopard. I've not used iCloud yet as I'm not sure what it offers me. I sync my phone using iTunes so I'm not sure what the problem is.

Off to have a google to see what the trouble is.

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale


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clisma



Joined: 02/03/06
Posts: 216
Loc: LA
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #955108 - 24/11/11 12:14 PM
Unfortunately I must agree with the OP. MobileMe, however faulty (yes I'm looking at you you crappy double-entry-in-the-Address-Book-problem) was pretty effective in keeping all your iOS devices synced to one or even multiple computers. As it is, I can't go to iCloud on my work horse due to being, and staying, in SL. I've already looked into using iCal and AB with Google's services, but it doesn't quite work as well as advertised for me.

This is Apple. Love it or leave it kind of scenario. In this case, I'm afraid, come June it may have to be a case of 'leave it' for me. The service that is.

Must. Vent. Frustration.

--------------------
Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


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. . . Delete This
Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #955118 - 24/11/11 12:34 PM
using the previous mobile me system, you could wirelessly sync the iOS devices with all your Macs..... for email, calendars, contacts, and a heap of other bits....


and do this on pretty much any relatively recent version of OSX , be it Tiger, Leopard or Snow leopard, on PPC and Intel Macs (where relevant)




so, let's say you're in tokyo, you add meetings to your mobile me shared iphone calendar, and take a few photos, and accept a new job role that requires you add an extra email account to your collection ,

under the previous system, MobileMe, it updates your laptop back at the hotel, office macs in London and New york, and the old one in the study at home.... ... all wirelessly, with no need to sync the device over USB and iTunes...



but, the one in London is a late Dual G5 machine on Tiger, the New york one on Snow leopard, and the older one at home a PPC G5 quad on Leopard , yet all sync'ed together by mobile me...


BUT unless you update to Lion, iCloud basically won't work at all..

only one of the three machines can run Lion,

and even if you do update, not everything you used to sync wirelessly will continue to work.

according to the Apple "move to iCloud" pages you will no longer be able to sync the following.

Mac Dashboard widgets.
Dock Items
Keychains
Preferences,
Mail Accounts,
Mail Rules
Mail Signatures
Smart Mailboxes.


making syncing multiple office macs and iOS devices no longer functional.....


so, if you update a web login password on your keychain in New york, you will now have to wait till you're in london to update the one on the system there.....


and so on....


it's a bloody mess.


the elegance is gone....


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Neokoenig



Joined: 24/05/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Oxford
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955119 - 24/11/11 12:37 PM
I've got Google Apps setup for my personal domain, and dropbox for files.

As it essentially works as an exchange server, I've got my calendars, email and contacts syncing to iPhone, and I like the web interface enough for calendaring on desktop, plus IMAP for email. Dropbox I can get on all machines.

The only thing iCloud offers me is the find my phone bit.

--------------------
Web Design ~
Drum Studio


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4412
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955133 - 24/11/11 02:13 PM
Having had a look around I found that it seemed to be an issue with the discontinuation of Mobile Me and replaced with iCloud. It seems like PC users aren't affected as well, but I've no idea what the actual facts are. It does seem like a step backwards.

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale


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Mixedup
active member


Joined: 03/09/03
Posts: 4892
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Richie Royale]
      #955141 - 24/11/11 02:45 PM
The whole idea of anything in the 'cloud' *requiring* any sort of operating system on a bit of hardware is rather ridiculous, isn't it? I mean, surely that's the whole point of the cloud — you can hold stuff up there and access it on your various devices, whatever they happen to be running

+1 to Google. Never had to think about it syncing calendars, documents and various stuff on my Mac, PC & Android. It's just there and up to date all the time. Same approach with Kindle.

Can't say I'm surprised that Apple are screwing this up, though. It's not really in their interests to embrace/push the who-cares-what-OS-I-use model, is it?


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Mixedup]
      #955147 - 24/11/11 03:31 PM
You still need code running on the local machine to connect with the cloud services and perform all kinds of functions, and that code is a feature of the current OS.

Apple aren't going back and adding new features into old discontinued versions of the OS, very few companies do.

If you want to take advantage of new features, you need to upgrade your software. Just because a service is partly cloud based, doesn't mean you don't need software on all the bits of hardware interfacing with it - that software and features have to exist in the computers, the iPhones, the iPads and so on that use that service.


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G-Doubleyou



Joined: 10/02/06
Posts: 1469
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955152 - 24/11/11 04:00 PM
It's easy for me I simply don't use it!



--------------------
G-Dub
Studio G-fx 15inch quad-core i7 Macbook Pro Logic9.1.8, LPX 10.0.3


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The Elf
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Posts: 9835
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955159 - 24/11/11 04:26 PM
I'd hate to be without iCloud. It helps me out all day, every day. I can't see any reason not to use it.

I don't use a Mac, but I do use an iPhone and a host of Windows-based PCs. iCloud works perfectly and seamlessly for me. All of my emails, contacts and (multiple) calendars synced and available wherever I go - love it!

But it seems Mac users have been let down on this one. Pity.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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Dave B



Joined: 03/04/03
Posts: 5716
Loc: Maidenhead
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: desmond]
      #955196 - 24/11/11 08:56 PM
Quote desmond:

Apple aren't going back and adding new features into old discontinued versions of the OS, very few companies do.




But most companies don't have Apple's bullish attitude towards older versions and offer an overlapping upgrade path. Something like keeping MobileMe running for all pre-Lion versions and just not letting people sign up after a point. That way, people could upgrade according to their needs, not Apples aggressive "my way or the highway" timetables.

I can hardly be called an Apple basher (and neither can Idress in Drag) but this is a good example of where Apple are driving their future ideas at the risk of alienating the faithful.

Doesn't bother me though - I have Lion on an external hard drive but all the rest of my machines are SL...

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)


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twotoedsloth



Joined: 26/01/08
Posts: 630
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955210 - 25/11/11 12:04 AM
Didn't Apple do something like this years ago with mac.com? It was free for a year or something like that?


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cookie monster



Joined: 15/11/04
Posts: 10
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: twotoedsloth]
      #955285 - 25/11/11 12:35 PM
From what I've read, and I could be totally wrong on this, but basically, when MobileMe stops, many people will be stumped. I rely on it for synching, web hosting and being something you don't even have to think about.

When MobileMe ends, I have a mac that is not fast enough to run Lion, and an old PPC as well, that can't run Lion - as much as it would like to. So, I'll lose iphone synching and all sorts of other options. But if I upgrade, I have reason to believe that my older digidesign hardware (002R) and software (PTLE 8) will need to be updated, and then I'll have to buy new Digidesign/Avid hardware as well!

So, the demise of MobileMe and the rise of iCloud looks as if it gives my wallet the scary prospect of having to find money for:

a new Mac
new Pro-Tools software
new Pro-Tools hardware

and I can guess my perfectly good printer will need to be replaced and the scanner too!

AND iCloud won't do all the keychain, dashboard and other stuff that was so useful!

I'm struggling to see the point really - especially as Lion looks like a phone - I want a phone that does as much as it can, and a PowerHorse to do audio, not a phone and a fake phone the size of a TV!

Rant over - apologies if my reasoning is incorrect.

--------------------
i7 Mac Mini, Pro-Tools 10 Mbox2Pro, 002Rack, Command 8

Edited by John Dipper (25/11/11 12:36 PM)


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4487
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955316 - 25/11/11 02:37 PM
Oh dear. This looks like Apple are doing the Big Corporation thing: Losing touch with your customers and being patronisingly arrogant.
I see no reason why Apple cannot code iCloud to work with older OS-es.
I can quite see with Windows 7 being much less of a hassle to users than the previous Windows system, and the rise of Google's interesting products, that people will move to gear that (insert hollow laugh here) Just Works.
Oh dear, Apple being Unhelpful is not good at all. I wonder what Logic 10 will be like?

--------------------
Oh. It's Christmas.


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stratquebec



Joined: 30/10/05
Posts: 865
Loc: Quebec/Canada
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Guy Johnson]
      #955346 - 25/11/11 05:29 PM
Quote Guy Johnson:

... I wonder what Logic 10 will be like?



Let's face it: Apple don't makee any revenu out of Logic sales anymore. Seem's to me that Apple is more an iPhone, iPad and iPod seller than anythjing else. Things change, so do Apple. There's plenty other solution than Logic out there.

--------------------



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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: stratquebec]
      #955358 - 25/11/11 07:31 PM
Quote stratquebec:

Quote Guy Johnson:

... I wonder what Logic 10 will be like?



Let's face it: Apple don't makee any revenu out of Logic sales anymore.




Of course they make revenue from it. As I understand it, from various subjective evidence I've seen, Apple do fairly nicely out of ProApp sales. Do you know how many copies of FCPX they shifted when it went into the app store? It was substantial.


Quote stratquebec:

Seem's to me that Apple is more an iPhone, iPad and iPod seller than anythjing else. Things change, so do Apple. There's plenty other solution than Logic out there.




They are certainly more of a consumer focused company than they used to be pre-iPod, indeed...


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Gary M
Audio Technica


Joined: 18/04/01
Posts: 985
Loc: Northwood, London
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: desmond]
      #955364 - 25/11/11 09:19 PM
I use iCloud and love it. Pitty older os don't use it but thats life. You can still access everything from accessing www.icloud.com so your not totally lost. iCloud is gonna be massive, we have only seen he start of it. Remember apple has gave iCloud functionality to all its app store developers, that is major. Also think about how it could be put to use with logic. Log I on any mac and retrieve your projects plus any plugins you have downloaded from the app store. Big big major things to come here. Never be without a plugin on another computer again when you want o access your projects remotely. Don't push it away embrace it. Since iCloud I have actually started using my iPhone 4 for taking photos and taking note as I have all my photos on my mac without having to plug in and sync.


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benniferj



Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 318
Loc: Camberley, Surrey, UK
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955367 - 25/11/11 10:04 PM
Gary, you've missed the point. MobileMe is (was) a pay-for-year-subscription service you can currently use on iPhone, all Apple Macs, iPads etc. It has loads of features they removed from iCloud.

So the potential of iCloud is irrelevant, they have removed loads of the good bits that are invaluable to workflow.

I'm pissed off, not to mention MobileMe Calendars and Mail getting unreliable and glitchy since the changeover.


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: benniferj]
      #955369 - 25/11/11 10:16 PM
They haven't *removed* anything, they've built a new service from the ground up, which doesn't have all of the features of the previous service but does have a load of other things.

I don't use it myself, but like many platform-ey things from Apple, I suspect it's just the beginning and many more things will happen, including much of the functionality people seem to be missing from Mobile Me...


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Gary M
Audio Technica


Joined: 18/04/01
Posts: 985
Loc: Northwood, London
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: benniferj]
      #955385 - 26/11/11 12:32 AM
Quote benniferj:

Gary, you've missed the point. MobileMe is (was) a pay-for-year-subscription service you can currently use on iPhone, all Apple Macs, iPads etc. It has loads of features they removed from iCloud.

So the potential of iCloud is irrelevant, they have removed loads of the good bits that are invaluable to workflow.

I'm pissed off, not to mention MobileMe Calendars and Mail getting unreliable and glitchy since the changeover.




I had mobile me, I know they have dropped things like iDisk and iWeb but don't see what else is missing. I used to pay for mobile me (or .mac when I had it) but I pay nothing for iCloud.


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. . . Delete This
Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Gary M]
      #955396 - 26/11/11 03:03 AM
try reading my second post in the thread Gary..... it lists most of the useful things that no longer work with iCloud as opposed to Mobileme.



i'm staying Mobile me as long as i can, and then i'm off to google.... or , godforbid, microsoft.... and if that happens, then my next phone and computers will probably be PC based.


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Gary M
Audio Technica


Joined: 18/04/01
Posts: 985
Loc: Northwood, London
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955665 - 26/11/11 02:09 PM
Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

try reading my second post in the thread Gary..... it lists most of the useful things that no longer work with iCloud as opposed to Mobileme.



i'm staying Mobile me as long as i can, and then i'm off to google.... or , godforbid, microsoft.... and if that happens, then my next phone and computers will probably be PC based.




I had already read your second post.

You can still get your mail just set the mail app up correctly. This works on a g5 as well.

Keychains I never got on with, I use google chome on mac and pc and this does all this for me.

Honestly it's no big thing.

I also thought that they were not turning off the mobile me service until next year. Maybe I'm wrong about this though.



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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4487
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955667 - 26/11/11 02:19 PM
Obviously a big thing to ODBBQL

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Oh. It's Christmas.


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clisma



Joined: 02/03/06
Posts: 216
Loc: LA
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Guy Johnson]
      #955734 - 27/11/11 09:57 AM
Big thing to some, not to others. Fair enough. I count myself among the ones that aren't completely thrilled by this development because it does kind of leave me high and dry. Anyway, if one of you chaps comes up with a reliable way of doing this in the future, anytime before mobile me goes offline, please do share. I don't mind paying for a sync service between all my comps and iOS devices, if it works well, especially on not too old hardware.

--------------------
Just a piano and some sketch paper please...


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. . . Delete This
Here be Dragons


Joined: 23/06/08
Posts: 3888
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Gary M]
      #955758 - 27/11/11 12:44 PM
Quote Gary M:


I had already read your second post.

You can still get your mail just set the mail app up correctly. This works on a g5 as well.

Keychains I never got on with, I use google chome on mac and pc and this does all this for me.

Honestly it's no big thing.

I also thought that they were not turning off the mobile me service until next year. Maybe I'm wrong about this though.






1) GETTING mail is no issue, sync'ing things INSIDE THE MAIL APPLICATION is the issue.... for example, adding an email account, with MobileMe, you can add or remove an email ACCOUNT on ONE device, and have it automatically be remotely added to ALL the others.... .
the same applies to mail RULES (the sorting of incoming mail according to user defined parameters, which in a corporate environment is one of the most common activities... )

2) Keychains..... the storage of passwords and log in details, not just for the web browser, but things like your WiFi passcodes, remote storage passwords, and so on.... ALL web browsers can remember website log ins, but none of them do the other stuff. again, in a business environment, this is rather more important than it might be for an individual, AND it's more secure.....

3) It's no big thing..... i disagree.....


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955764 - 27/11/11 01:12 PM
Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

2) Keychains..... the storage of passwords and log in details, not just for the web browser, but things like your WiFi passcodes, remote storage passwords, and so on.... ALL web browsers can remember website log ins, but none of them do the other stuff. again, in a business environment, this is rather more important than it might be for an individual, AND it's more secure.....




I recommend LastPass for this stuff...


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Kwackman



Joined: 07/11/02
Posts: 1409
Loc: Belfast
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955767 - 27/11/11 01:26 PM
Can you clear something up for me.

I have an "@mac.com" address.
If I don't go to icloud, will it still work?

I don't care about the syncing stuff, I just use it as my main email address.
I don't have an iPad or iphone, I don't email on my iPod touch, I only use email on my Macpro and Macbook.

Hope this isn't hijacking this thread - it's sort of related to what has been discussed.

Cheers.

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 5975
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Kwackman]
      #955781 - 27/11/11 03:31 PM
Quote Kwackman:


I have an "@mac.com" address.
If I don't go to icloud, will it still work?





I can't see any immediate reason why not.

But you'd be well advised to buy yourself a straightforward "kwackman.co.uk" (or similar) address and start publicising it among your contacts. Set it to forward to your mac.com address for now. But this address can follow you through life, despite anything Apple (or any other company) throw at you. Take control!


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Folderol



Joined: 15/11/08
Posts: 3881
Loc: Rochester, UK
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #955795 - 27/11/11 06:06 PM
Quote Exalted Wombat:

Quote Kwackman:


I have an "@mac.com" address.
If I don't go to icloud, will it still work?





I can't see any immediate reason why not.

But you'd be well advised to buy yourself a straightforward "kwackman.co.uk" (or similar) address and start publicising it among your contacts. Set it to forward to your mac.com address for now. But this address can follow you through life, despite anything Apple (or any other company) throw at you. Take control!



This!
A tenner for 2 years and it belongs to you, not your ISP nor anyone else.

--------------------
It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)


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ConcertinaChap



Joined: 20/07/05
Posts: 2831
Loc: Bradford on Avon
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #955803 - 27/11/11 07:11 PM
Quote Exalted Wombat:

you'd be well advised to buy yourself a straightforward "kwackman.co.uk" (or similar) address and start publicising it among your contacts. Set it to forward to your mac.com address for now. But this address can follow you through life, despite anything Apple (or any other company) throw at you. Take control!




Oddly enough 5 minutes ago I wrote something very similar on a different thread. Absolutely right. Couldn't agree more.

CC

--------------------
Somehow the future isn't what it used to be.
Mr Punch's Studio


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: ConcertinaChap]
      #955806 - 27/11/11 07:27 PM
+1


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Kwackman



Joined: 07/11/02
Posts: 1409
Loc: Belfast
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955811 - 27/11/11 07:40 PM
OK, thanks for the advice.
Any recommendations of who to buy an email address from?

--------------------
Cubase, guitars.


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 5975
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Kwackman]
      #955818 - 27/11/11 08:10 PM
Mentioning any provider will trigger anecdotes of horror stories :-) But, on the whole,

http://www.123-reg.co.uk/

have served me well.

All you need initially is a simple domain name. A co.uk is around £8 for two years. Mail forwarding is thrown in. You can expand to buying webspace, mailboxes etc. later if you need them. For many years I just had the domain, forwarding mail to my isp's system and forwarding the web address to the "free" webspace that came with my Internet deal. Then the isp restricted access to the webspace to when I connected at home. This was no good for me, so I bought webspace from 123-reg, on which I currently host a dozen independent sites.

(Did I mention that along with the [your-choice-of-name]@kwackman.co.uk email address comes the web address www.kwackman.co.uk? - but only the address, you also need webspace)


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Iain Boyd
member


Joined: 02/12/03
Posts: 69
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Kwackman]
      #955913 - 28/11/11 12:43 PM
Quote Kwackman:

Can you clear something up for me.
I have an "@mac.com" address.
If I don't go to icloud, will it still work?





Yes, absolutely - no need for a new address. Remember iCloud is free - to anyone - and you don't have too 'use' it in any special sense. But for peace of mind, go to iCloud.com and create an account using your existing address. You can go on getting your e-mail on your computers in exactly the same way - it's still good old IMAP e-mail.

But iCloud is not just an iteration of MobileMe - it is a major step along the path of an 'all your stuff anywhere' philosophy. I too had a perfectly satisfactory time with MobileMe, but I am already noticing that I don't ever have to connect my ipHone or iPad to my computer (with a WIRE - seems so 200x) for everything to be in sync. Not just calendars, but mail, iTunes library, addresses, key documents. This is how the Apple universe is going to look (therefore probably everyone's), and personally I don't care about anything they left out or dropped. You really valued synced Apple Mail Rules? Really??

And, while it would be a pain for other reasons, it doesn't mater one bit, in terms of data, if something breaks or is stolen. Thus for day-today stuff (no, not movies and samples libraries - yet) iCloud delivers a de facto back up. And free. Thank you.

There is also a distant chance that they might do iCloud for Snow Leopard before Mobile Me is switched off. Meanwhile, I strongly recommend the Take Control guide to iCloud to understand what's on offer.


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Iain Boyd]
      #955933 - 28/11/11 01:49 PM
Apple folks are funny. When mobile.me was all we had, everyone basically lambasted it as being overpriced and crap.

The second Apple try and do something better, everyone moans that they don't have the old, crap service they hated so much...

Ah, the human condition - we have to have *something* to moan about...


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chris...
active member


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Posts: 4753
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955949 - 28/11/11 03:31 PM
Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

the same applies to mail RULES (the sorting of incoming mail according to user defined parameters, which in a corporate environment is one of the most common activities... )



You really want to be doing that in one place - on the mail server itself.

Good mail servers support rules, especially the ones typically found in corporate environments - e.g. Exchange.

By contrast, having N client devices all equipped with some rules, all simultaneously trying to apply them to all mails, is unlikely to be hugely reliable...


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valves4ever
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Posts: 110
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955955 - 28/11/11 03:49 PM
As an old timer and technical luddite I find all this apps/twitter/icloud/synching/googling/texting/emailing etc etc etc to be one big income generator for the manufacturers and suppliers at the expense of the technologically addicted and gullible public......most of the messaging on these systems is a load of rubbish and not worth reading or hearing.....and for the cynical out there that includes this post.....back to my wind-up gramophone.....


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Tui
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Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3310
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955958 - 28/11/11 04:02 PM
Well, that's a question nobody seems to be asking anymore, whether or not it's actually desirable to be hooked up to a global matrix that knows all about you, 24/7. Frankly, this developing lifestyle reminds me of dystopian movies I watched back in the 80s and 90s, and I remember thinking at the time that things could never, ever get THAT crazy - or could they?


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The Elf
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Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: valves4ever]
      #955959 - 28/11/11 04:04 PM
Quote valves4ever:

As an old timer and technical luddite I find all this apps/twitter/icloud/synching/googling/texting/emailing etc etc etc to be one big income generator for the manufacturers and suppliers at the expense of the technologically addicted and gullible public......most of the messaging on these systems is a load of rubbish and not worth reading or hearing.....and for the cynical out there that includes this post.....back to my wind-up gramophone.....



I'd agree with you one one level. I find Facebook, Twitter et al a total waste of time.

But iCloud has nothing to do with such things!

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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valves4ever
member


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Posts: 110
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: The Elf]
      #955964 - 28/11/11 04:20 PM
Quote The Elf:

Quote valves4ever:

As an old timer and technical luddite I find all this apps/twitter/icloud/synching/googling/texting/emailing etc etc etc to be one big income generator for the manufacturers and suppliers at the expense of the technologically addicted and gullible public......most of the messaging on these systems is a load of rubbish and not worth reading or hearing.....and for the cynical out there that includes this post.....back to my wind-up gramophone.....



I'd agree with you one one level. I find Facebook, Twitter et al a total waste of time.

But iCloud has nothing to do with such things!




what does it have to do with then please?


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The Elf
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Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: valves4ever]
      #955965 - 28/11/11 04:22 PM
iCloud stores and synchronises calendars, contacts, photos, documents, etc. It's not a messaging system. And it's effectively 'free', assuming you have a device that supports it.

If you're really interested, take a look here:

iCloud

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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valves4ever
member


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Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: The Elf]
      #955967 - 28/11/11 04:27 PM
Quote The Elf:

iCloud stores and synchronises calendars, contacts, photos, documents, etc. It's not a messaging system. If you're interested, take a look here:

iCloud




thanks for that...I see that it is yet another facility for the technologically addicted and gullible public....


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The Elf
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Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: valves4ever]
      #955969 - 28/11/11 04:33 PM
Quote valves4ever:

Quote The Elf:

iCloud stores and synchronises calendars, contacts, photos, documents, etc. It's not a messaging system. If you're interested, take a look here:

iCloud




thanks for that...I see that it is yet another facility for the technologically addicted and gullible public....



Not at all. It's a useful facility that has been around for a long time in one form or another. It requires no outlay, effort or understanding - it just does its thing, like MIDI. You either 'get it', or you don't! Just like MIDI it makes my life easier! But just like MIDI you don't need it to make some music.

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: valves4ever]
      #955971 - 28/11/11 04:36 PM
Quote valves4ever:

thanks for that...I see that it is yet another facility for the technologically addicted and gullible public....




Indeed. Probably just like, erm, Telephones. Radio. Television. The Piano. Electricity, and so on.

What was wrong with living in caves, eh..?


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valves4ever
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Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #955972 - 28/11/11 04:36 PM
thanks for enlightening me....I don't think, I'll bother.......


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valves4ever
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Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: desmond]
      #955973 - 28/11/11 04:37 PM
Quote desmond:

Quote valves4ever:

thanks for that...I see that it is yet another facility for the technologically addicted and gullible public....




Indeed. Probably just like, erm, Telephones. Radio. Television. The Piano. Electricity, and so on.

What was wrong with living in caves, eh..?




Nothing...In fact I saw some people in Gran Canaria last year who do just that!


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basilfawlty



Joined: 08/12/08
Posts: 312
Loc: UK
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #956008 - 28/11/11 08:28 PM
It all looks a bit scary. I run a 2010 MBP i7 with SL and Logic; a 2010 octo MP with SL and Logic, an iphone 3 (sim free as I can only get Virgin where I live), and a 2007 Carillon Core2duo with XP and Cubase 4. For me the total cost of the 'free' icloud service would come to the best part of £1000, (new sim-free phone, Win7 upgrade, cubase upgrade), not to mention losing the ability to run my £2k TC powercore, and worry about some of the Logic / Lion issues folks seem to be having.

I'm currently syncing calendars via google calendar sync, email using imap, itunes on a wire.

I can understand the aggressive progressive approach to Apple's marketing, but it leaves a lot of folks saying 'yeah, Apple used to be so cool, but now they're becoming 'the man''.



--------------------
There are 10 types of people in this world - 9 who understand binary; the rest are like me.


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Gary M
Audio Technica


Joined: 18/04/01
Posts: 985
Loc: Northwood, London
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: basilfawlty]
      #956034 - 28/11/11 10:59 PM
Quote basilfawlty:

It all looks a bit scary. I run a 2010 MBP i7 with SL and Logic; a 2010 octo MP with SL and Logic, an iphone 3 (sim free as I can only get Virgin where I live), and a 2007 Carillon Core2duo with XP and Cubase 4. For me the total cost of the 'free' icloud service would come to the best part of £1000, (new sim-free phone, Win7 upgrade, cubase upgrade), not to mention losing the ability to run my £2k TC powercore, and worry about some of the Logic / Lion issues folks seem to be having.

I'm currently syncing calendars via google calendar sync, email using imap, itunes on a wire.

I can understand the aggressive progressive approach to Apple's marketing, but it leaves a lot of folks saying 'yeah, Apple used to be so cool, but now they're becoming 'the man''.






Things will move on and you will eventually see how good iCloud is. people will look back on this post. .mac and mobile me was one of apples worst moments and now people are missing it!

I have a G5 and its 6 years old. I have come to accept that a 6 year old product may not support the latest operating system or gadgets.

Its like me banging my CRT Television wondering why it wont connect to the internet or work with my 3D glasses!!!

Mail rules? - If your a business get exchange, its great I use it at work and does everything we have discus but you pay for it and it takes some setting up.

Wifi passwords? - surely this would only be part of a laptop that you would have on you, its not really something that is needed to be synced to a load of machines all around the world?

I back iCloud as i have not had any problems with it and it just seems to work. Gmail is great but you have to have a net connection. it does not allow me to typle an email on my ipad in a remote location with no Internet then have it automatically send when a signal is picked up. iCloud and Microsoft exchange do allow this!

iCloud - definitely not a stupid idea. But not revolutionary either

Cheers

Gary


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Neokoenig



Joined: 24/05/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Oxford
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Gary M]
      #956036 - 28/11/11 11:27 PM
Quote Gary M:

Gmail is great but you have to have a net connection. it does not allow me to typle an email on my ipad in a remote location with no Internet then have it automatically send when a signal is picked up. iCloud and Microsoft exchange do allow this!




Eh? If it's in your 'outbox'...
You *do* know you can set up Google Apps/Gmail as an exchange client on Apple devices...?

--------------------
Web Design ~
Drum Studio


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Gary M
Audio Technica


Joined: 18/04/01
Posts: 985
Loc: Northwood, London
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Neokoenig]
      #956079 - 29/11/11 08:43 AM
Quote Neokoenig:

Quote Gary M:

Gmail is great but you have to have a net connection. it does not allow me to typle an email on my ipad in a remote location with no Internet then have it automatically send when a signal is picked up. iCloud and Microsoft exchange do allow this!




Eh? If it's in your 'outbox'...
You *do* know you can set up Google Apps/Gmail as an exchange client on Apple devices...?




Am I right in thinking that's just come out? or are you on about using the mail app and setting it up like exchange?

If so, point taken I think i was more referring to an earlier post about Gmail having done it all and not seeing teh difference between what apple has done and what Google already have. i suppose thinking about it there is not a lot of difference.

cheers

Gary


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Neokoenig



Joined: 24/05/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Oxford
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Gary M]
      #956086 - 29/11/11 09:16 AM
Quote Gary M:


Am I right in thinking that's just come out? or are you on about using the mail app and setting it up like exchange?




Yeah - just that bit - but like on the iPhone, the syncing etc with calendars/contacts/mail works really well..

--------------------
Web Design ~
Drum Studio


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baward
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Posts: 643
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: The Elf]
      #956122 - 29/11/11 11:25 AM
I have in recent years gone off Apple (user since 1989) and I only really use their products for legacy reasons now. The 'wow' factor disappeared for me around 10 years ago and now theres not a great deal to differentiate them from other computing product companies. iShame.


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4487
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #956154 - 29/11/11 01:13 PM
The company's too big, too smug.

--------------------
Oh. It's Christmas.


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benniferj



Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 318
Loc: Camberley, Surrey, UK
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #956196 - 29/11/11 03:30 PM
It's a totally rock and hard place though, as i've loved Apple products for years, well since I got into audio/video media. Windows systems just haven't interested me and I still wouldn't want to use one. But if Apple bugger up Logic X, i'm forced to Lion that I already don't really like that much (i'm getting towards needing a new computer for the studio) and my MobileMe syncing is getting cut reduced I don't really know what to do.


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Blott



Joined: 10/09/04
Posts: 867
Loc: Nottingham UK
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: benniferj]
      #956260 - 29/11/11 08:41 PM
I'm another Apple user who's starting to think the unthinkable.
Its the grey interface of Lion thats the turning point for me.
They say it's 'unifying' the user interface, but it just makes it more difficult to read and navigate and is a terrible design decision by Apple.
Funny that they haven't 'unified' the IOS on the iPhones, iPads & iPod touches to have all the same colour icons then isn't it?
Utter nonsense.
I swear if I don't get my colour sidebar icons back in a future update then I too will start running Windows as the primary on my Macs.
I'm able to stick with Snow Leopard on my current hardware, but I won't be able to with future Apple products, so this really is a deal breaker for me.
I thought pale blue icons on pale blue folders introduced in Snow Leopard was a backwards step (it was), but this all grey colour interface in the finder is just too much and the straw that broke the camels back for me.
I also don't like the iCloud thing it's not seamless at all as Apple infer.
I still perform my own backups thanks and it's not hard keeping calendars and address books synced across devices. I use Dropbox for my online storage which integrates brilliantly on a Mac AND PC.
I love my Mac Pro & MacBook Pro, but if things keep going downhill OS wise as they are at the moment, then I'll jump before I'm pushed.
Windows 7 is actually alright!

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/blottuk
http://blottuk.bandcamp.com


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Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3310
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Blott]
      #956300 - 30/11/11 05:55 AM
Quote JazzyGB1:


Its the grey interface of Lion thats the turning point for me.
They say it's 'unifying' the user interface, but it just makes it more difficult to read and navigate and is a terrible design decision by Apple.




Agreed. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want a grey-in-grey interface. Coloured icons assist with finding folders quickly, and a little colour here and there looks appealing anyway.

I really wonder who these high-end graphics artists are who come up with such amateurish looking colour schemes. With every new iteration of OS X, simple things like contrast get worse and worse. Or iTunes with its horrible transport buttons... Freeware such as Miro looks a great deal more professional than that.


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OneWorld



Joined: 07/04/09
Posts: 1953
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: valves4ever]
      #956314 - 30/11/11 09:28 AM
Quote valves4ever:

As an old timer and technical luddite I find all this apps/twitter/icloud/synching/googling/texting/emailing etc etc etc to be one big income generator for the manufacturers and suppliers at the expense of the technologically addicted and gullible public......most of the messaging on these systems is a load of rubbish and not worth reading or hearing.....and for the cynical out there that includes this post.....back to my wind-up gramophone.....




Not being a neophile I agree totally. Simply because there are more ways of communicating messages doesn't mean they become intrinsically more interesting. Coming home from work on the train the other day was an example - a full 50 minutes sat next to a woman making a call and me being being privy to the most excrutiatingly mundane and trite claptrap regarding a cohort of her BTEC students and their results.

The conversation consisting of nothing but ancient cliches and feigned gasps of surprise on her part. Where on earth does one get the opportunity to be contemplative these days when we are deluged by an unremitting flow of ubertosh that we all have to listen to - bah!


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desmond



Joined: 10/01/06
Posts: 9316
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: OneWorld]
      #956325 - 30/11/11 10:02 AM
Completely agree - I hate having to be forced to listen to other people's phone conversations in public, and sound pollution in general.

I think of it as other people stealing CPU cycles from my brain.

But then I am the Noise Fascist in my family, I guess...


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4412
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #956327 - 30/11/11 10:04 AM
That is what the personal stereo was invented for, to keep out other people's noise. Anyway this is way off topic!

--------------------
http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale


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Exalted Wombat



Joined: 06/02/10
Posts: 5975
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Tui]
      #956354 - 30/11/11 11:31 AM
Quote Tui:

Quote JazzyGB1:


Its the grey interface of Lion thats the turning point for me.
They say it's 'unifying' the user interface, but it just makes it more difficult to read and navigate and is a terrible design decision by Apple.




Agreed. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want a grey-in-grey interface. Coloured icons assist with finding folders quickly, and a little colour here and there looks appealing anyway.

I really wonder who these high-end graphics artists are who come up with such amateurish looking colour schemes. With every new iteration of OS X, simple things like contrast get worse and worse. Or iTunes with its horrible transport buttons... Freeware such as Miro looks a great deal more professional than that.




I redesigned a friend's website the other day. She thought it didn't look "modern" enough. We eventually discovered that, for her, "modern" meant "grey". Fine, I can do grey....

Last year everyone wanted lots of Flash. Thank goodness THAT'S out of fashion.


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Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3310
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #956391 - 30/11/11 01:35 PM
Yeah, grey... And black. LOTS of black. Like FCP.


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baward
member


Joined: 04/02/03
Posts: 643
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Exalted Wombat]
      #956457 - 30/11/11 05:50 PM
Quote Exalted Wombat:

Fine, I can do grey....





Grey is the new brown is the new black


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bugiolacchi



Joined: 01/10/09
Posts: 456
Loc: London
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #956466 - 30/11/11 06:18 PM
iCloud.... OK. Google Chrome and the Google family: rules! I just need to log in on any computer in the world on GC and voila', all my bookmarks, shortcuts and preferences are there.
GMail collects all my mail from 5 different 'places' and let me send them with the address I choose. And then there are Docs, video, maps, translate (so useful!)..

For 'collaborations' and back up I also use Dropbox. Immense. Never fails.

iCloud exist, yes maybe to help.. and it's free, but also to force you to buy more Apple gear. I don't fall for that... iTunes is pants.

--------------------
www.bugiolacchi.com
Songwriter/guitarist


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Tui
active member


Joined: 02/09/02
Posts: 3310
Loc: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: bugiolacchi]
      #956483 - 30/11/11 08:50 PM
Quote bugiolacchi:

the Google family: rules!




They sure do. If you use Android, all your data goes straight to the mobile phone carrier.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/30/carrier-iq-trevor-eckhart_n_11207 27.html

http://androidsecuritytest.com/features/logs-and-services/loggers/carrieri q/carrieriq-part2/


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bugiolacchi



Joined: 01/10/09
Posts: 456
Loc: London
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: Tui]
      #956488 - 30/11/11 09:11 PM
Sorry, what is the point? Some smart phones, which I don't use since I use phones for calling, cameras for pictures, and computers.. for computing (and GPS in the car!), will log your Goggle search (not worrying at al) and email addresses (worrying 1% more). And it's not 'Google's' fault.
But even so, so what? 99.99 of my internet searches are totally non-private (mostly for work, or finding an airline or traintimes) and the one I would make, maybe of medical or personal nature, I would use my own safe computer at home anyway, not while walking through Leicester Sq.!

As per the email addresses, it's hardly a secret... I can give you all my email addresses if you want... actually I advertise them in all my websites AND I include it when I write to anyone...
What's the problem..?

Anyway, again, this is a problem with some phones, not private computers.

My name is Roberto, and yes, I am not paranoid.

By the way, since buying an iPod with wifi, and downloading Apps, my rubbish "bin" email address has been inundated with spam! I am glad to see Apple keeping a vigilant eye on these things..

--------------------
www.bugiolacchi.com
Songwriter/guitarist


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Guy Johnson



Joined: 02/05/03
Posts: 4487
Loc: North Pembrokeshire
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #956577 - 01/12/11 11:47 AM
I just got this annoying email, really make me livid.

Note that in copy-pasting from Mail to Pages, the numbers listings have gone tits-up ... Does not inspire confidence; all apps and SL up-to-date.



--------------------
Oh. It's Christmas.


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J~P



Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 125
Loc: The Netherlands
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #957525 - 06/12/11 02:18 PM
if you are using sound cloud, also try this:
http://www.gobbler.com/i/YAc9hf
25gb of free cloud based back-up / transfer services that also links with sound cloud. 25gb's...that's a lot of mp3's


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XELATER
member


Joined: 01/09/03
Posts: 32
Loc: London, Scotland, Miami (Flori...
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: . . . Delete This User . . .]
      #957614 - 07/12/11 12:24 AM
Still in SL..... Everything works fine for me... I am musician... not a robot (Zone 1 and 2) on a iPhone (or whatever new gadget is out there). I mentioned that before..when I am on the stage performing... I don't want to look like an idiot when the "little brother" crashes, just because somebody can't sort there [ ****** ] out and come up with an appropriate and decent software version of plug in or DAW in respect... Don't forget... we are still yet compromising quality because of the pressure to reduce CPU demands. If anything better comes that proves wrong, whether is a new system or plug in or whatever...then I am on board...


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~Paul



Joined: 01/09/04
Posts: 1793
Loc: South Herts/North London
Re: iCloud..... what a bloody stupid idea new [Re: XELATER]
      #957719 - 07/12/11 03:25 PM
Quote XELATER:

Still in SL..... Everything works fine for me... I am musician... not a robot (Zone 1 and 2) on a iPhone (or whatever new gadget is out there). I mentioned that before..when I am on the stage performing... I don't want to look like an idiot when the "little brother" crashes, just because somebody can't sort there [ ****** ] out and come up with an appropriate and decent software version of plug in or DAW in respect... Don't forget... we are still yet compromising quality because of the pressure to reduce CPU demands. If anything better comes that proves wrong, whether is a new system or plug in or whatever...then I am on board...




Eh.. What has this got to do with iCloud?
And for that matter, why have you reposted this exact same thing in another thread? It's scarcely relevant in either

--------------------
Paul


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