well, Apple, it looks like you're about to wave goodbye to a lot of users....


such is the removal of service functionality, and system support, that users in their droves are choosing to leave Apple.... replacing their iPhones with Androids, and Macs with PC's


since iCloud REQUIRES, Lion.... anyone either not wanting to run Lion, or unable to run Lion, is having the previous functionality taken away from them on their macs...


making decent multi function sync between iOS device and an older Mac impossible by cloud, moving back to the days of having to manually sync devices

and even those that are running , or going to be running Lion, are facing a hugely reduced feature set......


at which point much of the convenience and integrated feature set that made choosing Mac+ iOS a bit of a no brainer is gone..... and in a rolling systems replacement program, one may as well save the money and get a PC and Android devices.... and use google.... it actually works better......



i note that i have now got several high profile corporate client cases where this is actively on the table for the tech planners, and i can find no reason to argue against it....

this is not 1's or even 10's but 100's of users , being corporately removed from the apple user base, and taking their business elsewhere.....

extrapolating that globally, i'd suggest this change is potentially going to cost apple 10's of thousands of corporate customers.

fecking stupid Apple....

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

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use google.... it actually works better......

---

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I'm All Ears.

I have an iPhone running OS5 and a G5 running Leopard. I've not used iCloud yet as I'm not sure what it offers me. I sync my phone using iTunes so I'm not sure what the problem is.

Off to have a google to see what the trouble is.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Unfortunately I must agree with the OP. MobileMe, however faulty (yes I'm looking at you you crappy double-entry-in-the-Address-Book-problem) was pretty effective in keeping all your iOS devices synced to one or even multiple computers. As it is, I can't go to iCloud on my work horse due to being, and staying, in SL. I've already looked into using iCal and AB with Google's services, but it doesn't quite work as well as advertised for me.

This is Apple. Love it or leave it kind of scenario. In this case, I'm afraid, come June it may have to be a case of 'leave it' for me. The service that is.

Must. Vent. Frustration.

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I love technology; it complicates my life...

using the previous mobile me system, you could wirelessly sync the iOS devices with all your Macs..... for email, calendars, contacts, and a heap of other bits....


and do this on pretty much any relatively recent version of OSX , be it Tiger, Leopard or Snow leopard, on PPC and Intel Macs (where relevant)




so, let's say you're in tokyo, you add meetings to your mobile me shared iphone calendar, and take a few photos, and accept a new job role that requires you add an extra email account to your collection ,

under the previous system, MobileMe, it updates your laptop back at the hotel, office macs in London and New york, and the old one in the study at home.... ... all wirelessly, with no need to sync the device over USB and iTunes...



but, the one in London is a late Dual G5 machine on Tiger, the New york one on Snow leopard, and the older one at home a PPC G5 quad on Leopard , yet all sync'ed together by mobile me...


BUT unless you update to Lion, iCloud basically won't work at all..

only one of the three machines can run Lion,

and even if you do update, not everything you used to sync wirelessly will continue to work.

according to the Apple "move to iCloud" pages you will no longer be able to sync the following.

Mac Dashboard widgets.
Dock Items
Keychains
Preferences,
Mail Accounts,
Mail Rules
Mail Signatures
Smart Mailboxes.


making syncing multiple office macs and iOS devices no longer functional.....


so, if you update a web login password on your keychain in New york, you will now have to wait till you're in london to update the one on the system there.....


and so on....


it's a bloody mess.


the elegance is gone....

I've got Google Apps setup for my personal domain, and dropbox for files.

As it essentially works as an exchange server, I've got my calendars, email and contacts syncing to iPhone, and I like the web interface enough for calendaring on desktop, plus IMAP for email. Dropbox I can get on all machines.

The only thing iCloud offers me is the find my phone bit.

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Web Design ~
Drum Studio

Having had a look around I found that it seemed to be an issue with the discontinuation of Mobile Me and replaced with iCloud. It seems like PC users aren't affected as well, but I've no idea what the actual facts are. It does seem like a step backwards.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

The whole idea of anything in the 'cloud' *requiring* any sort of operating system on a bit of hardware is rather ridiculous, isn't it? I mean, surely that's the whole point of the cloud — you can hold stuff up there and access it on your various devices, whatever they happen to be running

+1 to Google. Never had to think about it syncing calendars, documents and various stuff on my Mac, PC & Android. It's just there and up to date all the time. Same approach with Kindle.

Can't say I'm surprised that Apple are screwing this up, though. It's not really in their interests to embrace/push the who-cares-what-OS-I-use model, is it?

You still need code running on the local machine to connect with the cloud services and perform all kinds of functions, and that code is a feature of the current OS.

Apple aren't going back and adding new features into old discontinued versions of the OS, very few companies do.

If you want to take advantage of new features, you need to upgrade your software. Just because a service is partly cloud based, doesn't mean you don't need software on all the bits of hardware interfacing with it - that software and features have to exist in the computers, the iPhones, the iPads and so on that use that service.

It's easy for me I simply don't use it!



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G-Dub
Studio G-fx 15inch quad-core i7 Macbook Pro Logic913

I'd hate to be without iCloud. It helps me out all day, every day. I can't see any reason not to use it.

I don't use a Mac, but I do use an iPhone and a host of Windows-based PCs. iCloud works perfectly and seamlessly for me. All of my emails, contacts and (multiple) calendars synced and available wherever I go - love it!

But it seems Mac users have been let down on this one. Pity.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote desmond:

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Apple aren't going back and adding new features into old discontinued versions of the OS, very few companies do.

---

But most companies don't have Apple's bullish attitude towards older versions and offer an overlapping upgrade path. Something like keeping MobileMe running for all pre-Lion versions and just not letting people sign up after a point. That way, people could upgrade according to their needs, not Apples aggressive "my way or the highway" timetables.

I can hardly be called an Apple basher (and neither can Idress in Drag) but this is a good example of where Apple are driving their future ideas at the risk of alienating the faithful.

Doesn't bother me though - I have Lion on an external hard drive but all the rest of my machines are SL...

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

Didn't Apple do something like this years ago with mac.com? It was free for a year or something like that?

From what I've read, and I could be totally wrong on this, but basically, when MobileMe stops, many people will be stumped. I rely on it for synching, web hosting and being something you don't even have to think about.

When MobileMe ends, I have a mac that is not fast enough to run Lion, and an old PPC as well, that can't run Lion - as much as it would like to. So, I'll lose iphone synching and all sorts of other options. But if I upgrade, I have reason to believe that my older digidesign hardware (002R) and software (PTLE 8) will need to be updated, and then I'll have to buy new Digidesign/Avid hardware as well!

So, the demise of MobileMe and the rise of iCloud looks as if it gives my wallet the scary prospect of having to find money for:

a new Mac
new Pro-Tools software
new Pro-Tools hardware

and I can guess my perfectly good printer will need to be replaced and the scanner too!

AND iCloud won't do all the keychain, dashboard and other stuff that was so useful!

I'm struggling to see the point really - especially as Lion looks like a phone - I want a phone that does as much as it can, and a PowerHorse to do audio, not a phone and a fake phone the size of a TV!

Rant over - apologies if my reasoning is incorrect.

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i7 Mac Mini, Pro-Tools 10 Mbox2Pro, 002Rack, Command 8

Edited by John Dipper (25/11/11 12:36 PM)

Oh dear. This looks like Apple are doing the Big Corporation thing: Losing touch with your customers and being patronisingly arrogant.
I see no reason why Apple cannot code iCloud to work with older OS-es.
I can quite see with Windows 7 being much less of a hassle to users than the previous Windows system, and the rise of Google's interesting products, that people will move to gear that (insert hollow laugh here) Just Works.
Oh dear, Apple being Unhelpful is not good at all. I wonder what Logic 10 will be like?

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PA stuff on FB

Quote Guy Johnson:

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... I wonder what Logic 10 will be like?

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Let's face it: Apple don't makee any revenu out of Logic sales anymore. Seem's to me that Apple is more an iPhone, iPad and iPod seller than anythjing else. Things change, so do Apple. There's plenty other solution than Logic out there.

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intel iMac 20"/10.6.7, 2 GB ram, Logic Pro 9.1.5, Pro Tools 8.5, PropellerHead Record, Mbox2 PRO

Quote stratquebec:

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Quote Guy Johnson:

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... I wonder what Logic 10 will be like?

---

Let's face it: Apple don't makee any revenu out of Logic sales anymore.

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Of course they make revenue from it. As I understand it, from various subjective evidence I've seen, Apple do fairly nicely out of ProApp sales. Do you know how many copies of FCPX they shifted when it went into the app store? It was substantial.

Quote stratquebec:

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Seem's to me that Apple is more an iPhone, iPad and iPod seller than anythjing else. Things change, so do Apple. There's plenty other solution than Logic out there.

---

They are certainly more of a consumer focused company than they used to be pre-iPod, indeed...

I use iCloud and love it. Pitty older os don't use it but thats life. You can still access everything from accessing www.icloud.com so your not totally lost. iCloud is gonna be massive, we have only seen he start of it. Remember apple has gave iCloud functionality to all its app store developers, that is major. Also think about how it could be put to use with logic. Log I on any mac and retrieve your projects plus any plugins you have downloaded from the app store. Big big major things to come here. Never be without a plugin on another computer again when you want o access your projects remotely. Don't push it away embrace it. Since iCloud I have actually started using my iPhone 4 for taking photos and taking note as I have all my photos on my mac without having to plug in and sync.

Gary, you've missed the point. MobileMe is (was) a pay-for-year-subscription service you can currently use on iPhone, all Apple Macs, iPads etc. It has loads of features they removed from iCloud.

So the potential of iCloud is irrelevant, they have removed loads of the good bits that are invaluable to workflow.

I'm pissed off, not to mention MobileMe Calendars and Mail getting unreliable and glitchy since the changeover.

They haven't *removed* anything, they've built a new service from the ground up, which doesn't have all of the features of the previous service but does have a load of other things.

I don't use it myself, but like many platform-ey things from Apple, I suspect it's just the beginning and many more things will happen, including much of the functionality people seem to be missing from Mobile Me...

Quote benniferj:

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Gary, you've missed the point. MobileMe is (was) a pay-for-year-subscription service you can currently use on iPhone, all Apple Macs, iPads etc. It has loads of features they removed from iCloud.

So the potential of iCloud is irrelevant, they have removed loads of the good bits that are invaluable to workflow.

I'm pissed off, not to mention MobileMe Calendars and Mail getting unreliable and glitchy since the changeover.

---

I had mobile me, I know they have dropped things like iDisk and iWeb but don't see what else is missing. I used to pay for mobile me (or .mac when I had it) but I pay nothing for iCloud.

try reading my second post in the thread Gary..... it lists most of the useful things that no longer work with iCloud as opposed to Mobileme.



i'm staying Mobile me as long as i can, and then i'm off to google.... or , godforbid, microsoft.... and if that happens, then my next phone and computers will probably be PC based.

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

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try reading my second post in the thread Gary..... it lists most of the useful things that no longer work with iCloud as opposed to Mobileme.



i'm staying Mobile me as long as i can, and then i'm off to google.... or , godforbid, microsoft.... and if that happens, then my next phone and computers will probably be PC based.

---

I had already read your second post.

You can still get your mail just set the mail app up correctly. This works on a g5 as well.

Keychains I never got on with, I use google chome on mac and pc and this does all this for me.

Honestly it's no big thing.

I also thought that they were not turning off the mobile me service until next year. Maybe I'm wrong about this though.

Obviously a big thing to ODBBQL

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PA stuff on FB

Big thing to some, not to others. Fair enough. I count myself among the ones that aren't completely thrilled by this development because it does kind of leave me high and dry. Anyway, if one of you chaps comes up with a reliable way of doing this in the future, anytime before mobile me goes offline, please do share. I don't mind paying for a sync service between all my comps and iOS devices, if it works well, especially on not too old hardware.

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I love technology; it complicates my life...

Quote Gary M:

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I had already read your second post.

You can still get your mail just set the mail app up correctly. This works on a g5 as well.

Keychains I never got on with, I use google chome on mac and pc and this does all this for me.

Honestly it's no big thing.

I also thought that they were not turning off the mobile me service until next year. Maybe I'm wrong about this though.

---

1) GETTING mail is no issue, sync'ing things INSIDE THE MAIL APPLICATION is the issue.... for example, adding an email account, with MobileMe, you can add or remove an email ACCOUNT on ONE device, and have it automatically be remotely added to ALL the others.... .
the same applies to mail RULES (the sorting of incoming mail according to user defined parameters, which in a corporate environment is one of the most common activities... )

2) Keychains..... the storage of passwords and log in details, not just for the web browser, but things like your WiFi passcodes, remote storage passwords, and so on.... ALL web browsers can remember website log ins, but none of them do the other stuff. again, in a business environment, this is rather more important than it might be for an individual, AND it's more secure.....

3) It's no big thing..... i disagree.....

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

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2) Keychains..... the storage of passwords and log in details, not just for the web browser, but things like your WiFi passcodes, remote storage passwords, and so on.... ALL web browsers can remember website log ins, but none of them do the other stuff. again, in a business environment, this is rather more important than it might be for an individual, AND it's more secure.....

---

I recommend LastPass for this stuff...

Can you clear something up for me.

I have an "@mac.com" address.
If I don't go to icloud, will it still work?

I don't care about the syncing stuff, I just use it as my main email address.
I don't have an iPad or iphone, I don't email on my iPod touch, I only use email on my Macpro and Macbook.

Hope this isn't hijacking this thread - it's sort of related to what has been discussed.

Cheers.

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Cubase, guitars.

Quote Kwackman:

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I have an "@mac.com" address.
If I don't go to icloud, will it still work?

---

I can't see any immediate reason why not.

But you'd be well advised to buy yourself a straightforward "kwackman.co.uk" (or similar) address and start publicising it among your contacts. Set it to forward to your mac.com address for now. But this address can follow you through life, despite anything Apple (or any other company) throw at you. Take control!

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote Kwackman:

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I have an "@mac.com" address.
If I don't go to icloud, will it still work?

---

I can't see any immediate reason why not.

But you'd be well advised to buy yourself a straightforward "kwackman.co.uk" (or similar) address and start publicising it among your contacts. Set it to forward to your mac.com address for now. But this address can follow you through life, despite anything Apple (or any other company) throw at you. Take control!

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This!
A tenner for 2 years and it belongs to you, not your ISP nor anyone else.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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you'd be well advised to buy yourself a straightforward "kwackman.co.uk" (or similar) address and start publicising it among your contacts. Set it to forward to your mac.com address for now. But this address can follow you through life, despite anything Apple (or any other company) throw at you. Take control!

---

Oddly enough 5 minutes ago I wrote something very similar on a different thread. Absolutely right. Couldn't agree more.

CC

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

+1

OK, thanks for the advice.
Any recommendations of who to buy an email address from?

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Cubase, guitars.

Mentioning any provider will trigger anecdotes of horror stories :-) But, on the whole,

http://www.123-reg.co.uk/

have served me well.

All you need initially is a simple domain name. A co.uk is around £8 for two years. Mail forwarding is thrown in. You can expand to buying webspace, mailboxes etc. later if you need them. For many years I just had the domain, forwarding mail to my isp's system and forwarding the web address to the "free" webspace that came with my Internet deal. Then the isp restricted access to the webspace to when I connected at home. This was no good for me, so I bought webspace from 123-reg, on which I currently host a dozen independent sites.

(Did I mention that along with the [your-choice-of-name]@kwackman.co.uk email address comes the web address www.kwackman.co.uk? - but only the address, you also need webspace)

Quote Kwackman:

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Can you clear something up for me.
I have an "@mac.com" address.
If I don't go to icloud, will it still work?

---

Yes, absolutely - no need for a new address. Remember iCloud is free - to anyone - and you don't have too 'use' it in any special sense. But for peace of mind, go to iCloud.com and create an account using your existing address. You can go on getting your e-mail on your computers in exactly the same way - it's still good old IMAP e-mail.

But iCloud is not just an iteration of MobileMe - it is a major step along the path of an 'all your stuff anywhere' philosophy. I too had a perfectly satisfactory time with MobileMe, but I am already noticing that I don't ever have to connect my ipHone or iPad to my computer (with a WIRE - seems so 200x) for everything to be in sync. Not just calendars, but mail, iTunes library, addresses, key documents. This is how the Apple universe is going to look (therefore probably everyone's), and personally I don't care about anything they left out or dropped. You really valued synced Apple Mail Rules? Really??

And, while it would be a pain for other reasons, it doesn't mater one bit, in terms of data, if something breaks or is stolen. Thus for day-today stuff (no, not movies and samples libraries - yet) iCloud delivers a de facto back up. And free. Thank you.

There is also a distant chance that they might do iCloud for Snow Leopard before Mobile Me is switched off. Meanwhile, I strongly recommend the Take Control guide to iCloud to understand what's on offer.

Apple folks are funny. When mobile.me was all we had, everyone basically lambasted it as being overpriced and crap.

The second Apple try and do something better, everyone moans that they don't have the old, crap service they hated so much...

Ah, the human condition - we have to have *something* to moan about...

Quote Off duty BBQ lighter AKA Idris:

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the same applies to mail RULES (the sorting of incoming mail according to user defined parameters, which in a corporate environment is one of the most common activities... )

---

You really want to be doing that in one place - on the mail server itself.

Good mail servers support rules, especially the ones typically found in corporate environments - e.g. Exchange.

By contrast, having N client devices all equipped with some rules, all simultaneously trying to apply them to all mails, is unlikely to be hugely reliable...

As an old timer and technical luddite I find all this apps/twitter/icloud/synching/googling/texting/emailing etc etc etc to be one big income generator for the manufacturers and suppliers at the expense of the technologically addicted and gullible public......most of the messaging on these systems is a load of rubbish and not worth reading or hearing.....and for the cynical out there that includes this post.....back to my wind-up gramophone.....

Well, that's a question nobody seems to be asking anymore, whether or not it's actually desirable to be hooked up to a global matrix that knows all about you, 24/7. Frankly, this developing lifestyle reminds me of dystopian movies I watched back in the 80s and 90s, and I remember thinking at the time that things could never, ever get THAT crazy - or could they?

Quote valves4ever:

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As an old timer and technical luddite I find all this apps/twitter/icloud/synching/googling/texting/emailing etc etc etc to be one big income generator for the manufacturers and suppliers at the expense of the technologically addicted and gullible public......most of the messaging on these systems is a load of rubbish and not worth reading or hearing.....and for the cynical out there that includes this post.....back to my wind-up gramophone.....

---

I'd agree with you one one level. I find Facebook, Twitter et al a total waste of time.

But iCloud has nothing to do with such things!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.