Whilst I'm waiting on the inspiration for that world-changing album I'm one day going to pen (twang?), I thought I'd brush up on my music theory and playing skills. I've had a good look about and am now the proud owner of a considerably holey grasp of musical theory. I've also just about managed to get my hands to play in sync well enough to know some scales and a lot of chords on the guitar, and out of sync well enough to master some simple piano pieces in C and G.

I know enough to construct scales (major and related modes) chords (using all of my fingers) and put the two together. But it's far from intrinsic. So I figured the best way may be to start from scratch(ish). I'm hoping I have enough ability (ha!) to be able to catch up quicklyish, though I'm not in any kind of rush. I'm doing this for the long term results, rather than a quick fix.

So, what I was after was:

How would you guys approach the greatest understanding and familiarity you could if you were learning again from scratch?
Which books would you choose, which practice patterns, which musical pieces to consider, study and learn, and so on.

My goals are:

To be the best darned musician I can be.
To maximise my time and efficiency.
To cover a range of genre.

More specifically:

To get to the point where I can play the tunes I hear in my head on my guitar AND my piano.
To understand the rules of musical composition, and to be able to break them. (I don't know them yet, I might not want to break them).
To be able to listen to a piece of music and understand what is going on.
To be able to approach musical composition as a craftsman and artist, rather than a bodger and a cowboy.

I know I've tried to adopt a jovial position with this mail but I am deadly serious. I'm mediocre at a great many things. I'd really like to be great at this, my favourite of those things.

A useful start would be a good piano teacher and the ABRSM theory books, the red one and the blue one, and regular practice....

What Mr Lunch says!

Teacher. It might drive you bonkers (at first) and doing scales and arpeggios is/can be tedious (at first) but it does work and it all comes together at some point where you say "Oh! THAT'S why I did all that tiresome stuff" especially when you can read/play anything that's thrown at you, can follow anything you look at, when stuff all begins to make sense and, more importantly, when you have an idea or a riff in your head and you don't have to spend ages figuring out how to play the damned thing... it just 'happens' fluently and fluidly.

Requires some time and solid determination though (and costs, of course).

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

I thought a teacher would be a good idea. My daughter currently sees a local one, and I'm just finishing off paying for a few other things and will start myself. It's funny that a piano teacher was suggested but not a guitar one. Maybe you're very kindly saving me some money. Or perhaps guitar is something I may be just as well to progress with on my own.

In any case, I can't afford both and figured piano would be better idea (it's the one I'm weakest at and it's the one that appears to be easiest from a theory point of view.

Thanks so far guys.

Anything else? I'll sort out weekly lessons and daily practice on both instruments, as well as much time in Logic as I can find, but what about books? Any good theory recommendations?

Anything (theory-wise) you learn on piano you can translate to guitar yourself. Too much larnin in one go'll break yer brains.

I came across an old version of the Imogen Holst book which I found dead easy to follow and all useful.

It's something like "An ABC of music theory" or something similar.

Be warned - as previously mentioned lots of it will seem as much fun as hard sums until you wake up one day and think, "oh, now I get it."

Good luck.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote MrSimon:

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but what about books? Any good theory recommendations?

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You need people/someone to SHOW you stuff - there's only so much you can learn on your own from books and mags and the interweb and all that. You need someone experienced to show you, to correct you, to guide you, give you advice and hints and tips and so forth.

Music is bloody hard, technique even more so (and theory isn't trivial either when you really get into it) and requires diligence and persistence and dedication ... and guidance by someone more experienced ... and practice ... like many other disciplines -- there's not an easy way round it, sorry to say, if you want to do it seriously.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

I second the AB Guide to Theory. I was given these when I was about 10 and used them every day for 5/6 years.

HOWEVER, as Hollowsun so rightly said, books only get you so far.

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Composer;
www.ogonline.org

hi mr simon

a few tips i picked up along the way - like a good way of remebering is to use new monics for keys and key sigs and suchlike - like the first letter of a word of phrase is the letter in sequents from the key that your trying to work out

so - one really good new monic for remembering the c major scale is -

celine
dions
energetic
falseto
gets
autotune
busy

it also helps to have a picture in you're mind when reciting this so i think of celine in a studio in manchester or prage or wherever (doesnt really matter where) singing into a mike and then some guy in the studio saying 'great stuff celin thats a take' doing the take and then literally (without her knowlede) autotuning it behind her back

others - like the order of sharps in key signarutes (very important to know these) -

which are f c g d a e b

fat
cabby
gorges
down
ample
english
brekky

same thing again - have in you're mind an image of a fat cabby (maybe called bob sharp?) sat across from you in little chef having an massive olympic brekky or something (or maybe two! - in which case just add a 's' after 'brekky')

now finally the order of flats which is - b e a d g c f

thus -

bacon
eggs
and
dunking
gingernuts
causes
flatulence (which is very clever because we have order of 'flats' and then 'flatulence' as a kind of extra reminder)

that one speaks for itself really

(you could of also replaced gingernuts with gary baldis depending on taste although there are very difficult to get now anyway and to be fair they probably have a lower flatulence factor anyway)


hope that helps it certilny helped me in my grade 3 theory exam

cheers col

Learning music with that kind of fluidity is a bit like learning a language. If you start in primary school there's a good chance you'll speak like a native, whereas if you start as an adult it is MUCH harder. Worth doing? absolutely, but its rare that an adult picks things up that easily and definately worth getting yourself to a good teacher.

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Daniel Davis
Edinburgh Recording Studio Windmill Sound

Colin you're a genius. Who else would have thought of having a mneumonic for remebering the C major scale?

It reminds me of the odd pupil in the past who would come knowing the trick for remembering the notes on the stave (every good boy... etc) but not having understood that it's just alphabetical.

My suggestion would be to write music, on paper, all the time, even if it's bad and dead simple. The reason for the different conventions and signs etc soon becomes apparent, and because you are learning them for an immediate reason, to solve a real problem, it all makes more sense and sticks better. Writing four part chorales in the style of JSB is a common method for grasping all the different issues and elements.

+1 for Imogen Holst 'ABC'. It starts at the beginning, if I remember right, while most books start half way through. I wouldn't recommend the AB theory books at the beginning, though, except for people with a very high boredom threshold or a technical grade exam to pass.

Am I missing something? Why on earth would you want a ton of confusing mnemonics to remember something as basic as a major scale?? If you know the pattern of tones and semi-tones you can construct it from scratch, and you'd soon learn them off by heart anyway. (Colin - it TTSTTTS)

Perhaps he's taking the pss! I hope so!!

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Cassette Electrik

Quote:

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Am I missing something? Why on earth would you want a ton of confusing mnemonics to remember something as basic as a major scale?? If you know the pattern of tones and semi-tones you can construct it from scratch, and you'd soon learn them off by heart anyway. (Colin - it TTSTTTS)

Perhaps he's taking the pss! I hope so!!

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My thoughts exactly!

I repeat once again my suggestion that Colin S should be offered his own series.

Quote bequick_x:

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Am I missing something?

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Yep.

Re Colin S above:

sharps:

Father
Christmas
Gets
Dressed
After
Eating
Breakfast

flats:

B
E
A
Do
Good
Continental
Flights

(the latter somewhat out of date...)

I'd like to suggest giving Progression for the ipad a go. There is a free version available at itunes.

For the piano part: Print out the Circle of fifths. Play piano all day long, changing chords from the circle system. Use all 3 inversions of the chords and hammer in the 2, 4 and 6th note in the chords scale in addition or as a replacement of the traditional 3 chord inversions. Master that with proper timing and it will sound great ^^
Actually think I once made an instructional video for playing piano ranging from plain simple to the mentioned trick all in the same take. Let me see if I can find that......yep here is a video I once made:
http://vimeo.com/28745220

Heyclown

Edited by Heyclown (05/03/12 04:26 AM)

Quote Heyclown:

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...Play piano all day long...

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I see Trondheim hasn't changed. Beautiful place, fantastic people, bugger all to do. I practiced and wrote more there than most places.

On reflection, I think a long weekend in T might be just what I need to get some songs finished.

All the best, H.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote Raphbass:

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Re Colin S above:

sharps:

Father
Christmas
Gets
Dressed
After
Eating
Breakfast

flats:

B
E
A
Do
Good
Continental
Flights

(the latter somewhat out of date...)

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BEAD Gives Catholic Faith (think rosary beads)

Father Christmas Goes Down Escalators Backwards.

And you'll never forget the spaces of the bass clef after learning that Anal Congress Encourages Gonorrhea!

Quote shufflebeat:

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I see Trondheim hasn't changed. Beautiful place, fantastic people, bugger all to do. I practiced and wrote more there than most places.

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I went on a weekend cruise to Gothenburg once. When we got there it was shut.

Quote MrSimon:

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To understand the rules of musical composition, and to be able to break them. (I don't know them yet, I might not want to break them).

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There are no rules, only descriptions of what has been found to work. And they are very context-specific.

Music has been described as "organised sound". Probably it's a mistake to have NO organisation. Studying ways that other composers have organised their sounds is a very good idea.

Quote shufflebeat:

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I see Trondheim hasn't changed. Beautiful place, fantastic people...

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Aha Thanks. So you lived here. I´ve been living here for decades and still find it beautiful every day. And we have a great songwriting environment up here.
Tips; sign up for Trondheim Calling Songwriter Expo. I believe that starts around Aug 15th. Last year we had a lot of big business names here lecturing and writing songs.

Edited by Heyclown (05/03/12 02:49 PM)