I'm currently starting to do more 250-300 functions with our band and am micing kick drum, snare/hat and over head mic. Our drummer already plays very loud so am starting to put quite a bit of drums through the pa.
I'm using JBL EON518s subs which are 500w, 129db spl subs and noticed that the limiter light has started to flick on and off when kick is played at his loudest. Is this ok? Is it reasonable to send this amount of signal into the subs?

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www.richardpenrose.com

Quote dickiefunk:

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I'm currently starting to do more 250-300 functions with our band and am micing kick drum, snare/hat and over head mic. Our drummer already plays very loud so am starting to put quite a bit of drums through the pa.
I'm using JBL EON518s subs which are 500w, 129db spl subs and noticed that the limiter light has started to flick on and off when kick is played at his loudest. Is this ok? Is it reasonable to send this amount of signal into the subs?

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If he's playing loud, just drop the level on the mixer of the bass drum.

Regarding the clipping, are you eq'ing the bass drum, tightening it up will reduce clip. Alternatively, why not just add a tad of compression, unlike vocals, the tightening effect it has is very good for bass drum, it'll give real punch. I always, always eq/compress the bass drum, for that very reason.

Hi thanks for the reply. The levels are not clipping on the desk, the limiter built into the sub flickers on and off on his loudest kick drum hits.

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www.richardpenrose.com

From my experience of active subs, you can push the limit light quite a bit before you start having problems. The real issue though is not clipping (the electronics are limiting the signal), it is overheating because by having regular limiting you are effectively raising the RMS level of your signal and therefore pushing your amp harder.

The issue with heavy limiting is its effect on the signal, which unless it’s only a couple dB (of which you’re not really going to know) you’ll start affecting the sound of your kick. As stated above, I’d favour compressing the kick over letting it hit the limiter. I often compress the kick with 6-8dB of attenuation. Then push my powered sub so that the limiter flickers only occasionally (say once or twice in a 20 second period) and have not had any issues (although it’s not an EON 518, so may not directly relate).

The other thing with the kick is the type of sound you’re going for. With small PA systems I tend to favour the brighter sounding kick, which you can easily achieve by changing the mic position or adjusting the EQ. I tend to like my kicks with a good amount of click, so place my e602II about half way inside the drum pointing either directly at the beater or just below it (depending how bright I want it). This tends to get pretty good results.

Never met a system i didnt end up having the clip lights flash on the sub amp, as long as they dont stay on you should be right.... (:

Good that makes me feel better. Thanks.

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www.richardpenrose.com

Quote Falconhell:

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Never met a system i didnt end up having the clip lights flash on the sub amp, as long as they dont stay on you should be right.... (:

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And that is a sign of some very poorly designed systems. No system I put together clips the sub amp, or any other amp, if I can avoid it(And I only can't when I don't put it together).

Remember if you are clipping bass signals, you are going to create high frequency harmonics as well as essentially sending DC to the driver and as a result it will increase heat. It is not a good idea.

Seablade

Quote dickiefunk:

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Hi thanks for the reply. The levels are not clipping on the desk, the limiter built into the sub flickers on and off on his loudest kick drum hits.

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If it is just the limiter, you are likely fine. If it is actually clipping, then not so much. In general though this is a sign you are stretching the limits of your system and may need to upsize soon.

Seablade

Quote DPoll:

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From my experience of active subs, you can push the limit light quite a bit before you start having problems. The real issue though is not clipping (the electronics are limiting the signal), it is overheating because by having regular limiting you are effectively raising the RMS level of your signal and therefore pushing your amp harder.

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To be clear, Clipping IS a very real issue. But limiting can also be an issue for the reasons you stated.

Seablade