I've read this:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan10/articles/studioheadphones.htm#17
and it seems to suggest the Sennheiser HD25-1ii.

Anybody have any experience of them? I'd be buying them, to be perfectly honest, for subway listening first, and tracking second, which is why I'm obsessed with isolation.

Alternatives? I'm open to active-noise-cancelling suggestions too, but have never auditioned a pair that was even remotely accurate-sounding.

thanks!
ryan

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http://ryanmead.net

There's been a few threads on this recently and I've been reviewing my own headphone monitoring set up.

I currently have HD650, HD25, HD380, and Sony MDR7509, which may seem excessive, but each serves a slightly different purpose.

I believe the HD25 and HD380 offer similar levels of attenuation, followed by the Sony MDR7509. In terms of sound quality I prefer the HD25 and MDR7509 over the HD380s so you'd think I'd be happy with the HD25s? But they are not comfortable for long periods.

So I use the HD25s for live sound work where I need good attenuation, but I'm not wearing them for long periods, or for location recording where I'm moving around a lot (though I don't do much of that sort of work).

I use the MDR7509s for monitoring concert recording, where I can get away with slightly less attenuation but require good audio quality.

I use the HD380s for general studio tracking (when I don't want clients to use my nice headphones).

The HD650s are superb, but open back, so offer little in the way of attenuation.

I also have a pair of Beyer DT250s, but no longer rate them highly, though they are comfortable.

For subway listening I'd pick the HD25s, depending on how long you were wearing them for.

I've also owned Sony MDR7506s but they only offer the same attenuation as the 7509s and I don't think they sound as good. More compact though!

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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For subway listening I'd pick the HD25s, depending on how long you were wearing them for.

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I agree - this is what I use.

I have the HD 25-1 and use them with the velour earpads (these come included with the Mk.II version). The sound isolation is very slightly degraded, but they are more comfortable for extended listening. They come complete with a draw-string bag.

The HD 380 Pro fold flat and come with a zip case.

The PXC 450 are the same as the HD 350 but include Active Noise Reduction - though I would not use ANR headphones for monitoring, myself.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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I currently have HD650, HD25, HD380, and Sony MDR7509, which may seem excessive

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Not at all!

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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For subway listening I'd pick the HD25s, depending on how long you were wearing them for.

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Say 45 minutes or so, could you stand that?

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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I've also owned Sony MDR7506s but they only offer the same attenuation as the 7509s and I don't think they sound as good. More compact though!

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I actually have those now. They're OK, but as you say not great attenuation.

I don't have a nice pair of open-backed headphones a la HD650 or whatever, but now's not the time, as I'm (sadly) doing a hell of a lot more commuting than mixing.

Conversely, I don't mind getting another pair of closed-back phones as I find it handy to have two pairs when I'm recording someone else in my space.

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http://ryanmead.net

Quote John Willett:

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I would not use ANR headphones for monitoring, myself.

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Can't that facility be switched off on most such headphones???

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http://ryanmead.net

Why not choose something you're already happy with and just wear industrial ear protectors over them?

I've taken the drivers from a broken Sony headphone, built them into cheap ear protection and use them while mowing the lawn with good results.

If you really want to spend money you could research drummer isolation headphones ....

Quote ryan mead:

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Say 45 minutes or so, could you stand that?

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I have used them for 2 hour concerts, well 2 x 1 hours with a break, but they do feel uncomfortable for me after half an hour or so. I mean it's not like they're painful, just quite a bit of pressure on the ear. I'd imagine it's very much a personal thing though.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote John Reid:

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If you really want to spend money you could research drummer isolation headphones ....

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... which was the route I was planning to take until I discovered through this forum that:
(a) their sound quality can leave something to be desired
(b) something like the Sennheiser HD280/380 provides more isolation than these 'drummer' headphones.

In the end I went for HD380s. They're comfortable for extended periods and the quality is more than acceptable for casual listening and tracking. Their portability (referrred to above by Mr Willett) is a useful bonus.

TDC

Quote ryan mead:

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Quote John Willett:

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I would not use ANR headphones for monitoring, myself.

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Can't that facility be switched off on most such headphones???

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Yes, but the impedance can be quite high and, as they are designed to be ANR headphones and optimised as such, I don't think they sound so good in that mode as normal headphones.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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Quote ryan mead:

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Say 45 minutes or so, could you stand that?

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I have used them for 2 hour concerts, well 2 x 1 hours with a break, but they do feel uncomfortable for me after half an hour or so. I mean it's not like they're painful, just quite a bit of pressure on the ear. I'd imagine it's very much a personal thing though.

Bob

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The HD 25 are more comfortable with the velour earpads.

The ear pressure thing is very personal and depends on the size of your head, how sensitive your ears are and how old the headphones are.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

Quote John Willett:

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I have the HD 25-1 and use them with the velour earpads. The sound isolation is very slightly degraded, but they are more comfortable for extended listening.

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Same figuration as John's (and actually thanks to him - I got his advice about 2 years ago here in the forum ). For winter you can put back the original pads (at least this is what I do).

I use the headphones also when taking flights and actually put earplugs too.
Found them very comfortable and face the pressure problem only in flights because of the earplugs... (but as John and Bob said it's a personal thing).
I presume that 45 minutes shouldn't be in any case a problem at all.
Good luck!

Jonathan

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Pro. violinist who likes some experiments...
www.myspace.com/pagannini

I found this interesting and surprising (for me) comparison:
http://www.headphoneinfo.com/content/Sennheiser-HD-25-1-II-On-ear-Headphon e-Review/Etymotic-Research-mc5-Comparison.htm

Maybe this review can give you also some ideas

Actually strange Left and Right ears are not equal (in the mc5 it's seems basically the same)...

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Pro. violinist who likes some experiments...
www.myspace.com/pagannini

Quote Johnny Stecchino:

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I found this interesting and surprising (for me) comparison:
http://www.headphoneinfo.com/content/Sennheiser-HD-25-1-II-On-ear-Headphon e-Review/Etymotic-Research-mc5-Comparison.htm

Maybe this review can give you also some ideas

Actually strange Left and Right ears are not equal (in the mc5 it's seems basically the same)...

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That (domestic) review seems at odds with the general consensus of professionals around here. Maybe it's true, maybe not.....

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

I'm not COMPLETELY closed to the idea of in-ear phones, but not seriously considering them as I didn't have a very good experience with a cheap pair I used to own.

The main problem was what I think they call "microphony", by which I mean bumpy sounds being conducted up the cables into my inner ear every time somebody brushed past me or elbowed me in the ribs. They're also fussy to get positioned right, the foam loses its springiness in short order, and they didn't sound that good anyways.

What's with "tracking" on the test page that Johnny linked to? Frequency-dependent shift of signal intensity between the channels? Sounds like a load of bull, or maybe just a measure of manufacturing tolerances and how well the left and right drivers are matched.

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http://ryanmead.net

I use some in-the-ear phones for my iPod on the phone when I walk to work and whilst they have helped by keeping the traffic noise down, the cable noise is an annoyance. I try to minimise this by tucking the cable away down my t-shirt to avoid it being bumped, but I would choose over-the-ear phones for studio work. Plus in-the-ears tend to work their way out of my ears.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote Johnny Stecchino:

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I found this interesting and surprising (for me) comparison:
http://www.headphoneinfo.com/content/Sennheiser-HD-25-1-II-On-ear-Headphon e-Review/Etymotic-Research-mc5-Comparison.htm

Maybe this review can give you also some ideas

Actually strange Left and Right ears are not equal (in the mc5 it's seems basically the same)...

---

Interesting - but took at the photo of the headphones on the dummy head microphone - the HD 25-1 II sit very unnaturally on the head as if the ears are much stiffer than real human ears.

This bad sitting on the head is likely to account for the differences in frequency response and some of the negative things said about the HD 25.

As the in-ear headphones seal in the ear canal, they would have been able to get far more consistent measurements.

Supra-aural headphones, like the HD 25 are always problematical to measure on a head like this, circum-aural would measure better as they enclose the ear.

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John - Sound-Link ProAudio
President - Federation Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

I can rock out all night long in the HD 25's without waking the bat-eared Mrs. Mike in the room next door. The level of attenuation also means I get far less bleed when tracking vocals etc. than I do with other headphones. However, I've noticed this is reduced considerably if I'm wearing glasses, so they probably wouldn't have suited Roy Orbison & suggest that fit is an important factor.

Now I just need a set of Mopad slippers so I can keep time without waking the beast

DM

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Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Beyer DT250, not bad at all on both accounts, a bit of a bass hump mind you, huge improvement
on the god awful DT100's that sound like you are listening through a plastic cup.

I use Beyer DT770 Pro for QC "because they look like fats cans man" (checking for clicks, edits etc.) Rather hi-fi though but excellent isolation, a very lush sound especially when coupled with a audiophile grade headphone amplifier.

SafeandSound

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Mastering online mastering

Quote John Willett:

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Quote Johnny Stecchino:

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I found this interesting and surprising (for me) comparison:
http://www.headphoneinfo.com/content/Sennheiser-HD-25-1-II-On-ear-Headphon e-Review/Etymotic-Research-mc5-Comparison.htm

Maybe this review can give you also some ideas

Actually strange Left and Right ears are not equal (in the mc5 it's seems basically the same)...

---

Interesting - but took at the photo of the headphones on the dummy head microphone - the HD 25-1 II sit very unnaturally on the head as if the ears are much stiffer than real human ears.

This bad sitting on the head is likely to account for the differences in frequency response and some of the negative things said about the HD 25.

As the in-ear headphones seal in the ear canal, they would have been able to get far more consistent measurements.

Supra-aural headphones, like the HD 25 are always problematical to measure on a head like this, circum-aural would measure better as they enclose the ear.

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Glad to read what you wrote. That benchmark was surprising. I like the HD25-1 much but since 2007, after having a trauma in my right ear, I don't trust my ears as I used to. Now after reading your comment I'm more comfortable!

Quote ryan mead:

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I'm not COMPLETELY closed to the idea of in-ear phones, but not seriously considering them as I didn't have a very good experience with a cheap pair I used to own.

The main problem was what I think they call "microphony", by which I mean bumpy sounds being conducted up the cables into my inner ear every time somebody brushed past me or elbowed me in the ribs. They're also fussy to get positioned right, the foam loses its springiness in short order, and they didn't sound that good anyways.

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Hi Ryan!

That's my experience with Sennheiser CX300 II's - they sound excellent for the price and once you've chosen the most appropriate rubber grommets for your particular ears can give a good bass end response as well.

However, I only used them once for mobile recording, as those bumpy sounds ended up on my Zoom H4n recordings as well as travelling up the cable into my ear. The next time I took my HD650's, stood the Zoom H4n on a camera tripod and let the headphone cable partly lie on the ground - no more cable noise


Martin

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YewTreeMagic