Ever since reading about Paul White's new book: The Producer's Manual I have been thinking it would make a welcome addition to my music bookshelf.

I was quite chuffed then, when I received an email from the SOS mail order department informing me I could purchase the book directly from them for "only" £29.95, plus P&P at £6.95, making a total of £36.90. Surely this would be the cheapest way of purchasing said book, being that the author is actually the editor-in-chief of SOS itself.

Additionally the deal was sweetened by the fact that the book would be signed by none other than the author, Mr White. This was enough to prompt me into making an impulse purchase.

That was, until I had a quick peek of the price on Amazon, which, to my amazement, was £25.46, with the option of FREE postage...making a price difference of a whopping £11.44!

Rather peeved I emailed SOS mail order and was informed that they were bound by the publisher's price (Sample Magic, the book is not actually published by SOS) and couldn't reduce it further. So I took a trip to the Sample Magic website to discover, sure enough the book was indeed priced at £29.95. EXCEPT they too were offering FREE postage, thus still making it £6.95 cheaper to buy than from SOS!

This seems like bad form to me to the many loyal readers of SOS. Surely we can get an equitable deal on Paul's book as readers of his magazine - or are we really having to pay an extra £11.44 for his signature?

Or you could pay the full amount from SOS and support them directly!

Amazon run some pretty bullish business practice, from the point of view of publishers. I wouldn't be surprised if the publishers were borderline losing out on those Amazon sales. I only buy books from Amazon these days if they're out of print.

Besides, eleven quid ain't bad for a decent scribble like that - you could cut it out and frame it. I got Darth Vader's when I was nine or so, and Eddie Large, Clive Sinclair and Helen Shapiro. She was dressed as Peter Pan and opened our local shopping centre. I remember my dad liking that for some reason. I know someone with Hendrix's autograph on a ticket, got from a gig in Ilkely of all places. Long story. But Eddie Large wins.

it's a bit mean accusing SOS of some malicious money shenanigans in this regard....

they lack the brute forced bargaining of amazon with the publisher, and the spare profit margin of the publisher themselves,

so, either they offer it at the price they're forced to by economics, or they don't offer it at all....


i'd much rather buy it from SOS..... that way i know a bit of the money is actually going towards keeping the existence such a publication going !!!

But hang on, in order for Amazon to sell the book below the publisher's price they must get the book some way below the publisher's retail price, and since they can only get the book from the publisher (unless copyright law is being broken) then it must be the publisher selling it to Amazon below the normal retail price, no?

In any case I don't think it works this way. I myself sell a product through Amazon, and apart from the cut that Amazon takes, they have no say or interest in the price I sell the product for. In other words so long as they get their percentage, you, as the publisher or manufacturuer set the price.

So I'm afraid that both your comments hold no water and make little sense. But if you're happy to be ripped off over some misplaced loyalty, then so be it.

Got to be a book worth having. I'm going to buy it. Paul White is not the first author to be shafted by his publisher. Won't be the last. I really don't care if its signed or not but balls to the eleven quid. I'll buy it through SOS and screw Amazon (who are obviously conspiring with Sample Magic in a way that neither feel is sharp practice - there is supposed to be a Competition Authority in the UK to deal with stuff like this. But they don't).

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Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Idris Y Draig:

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i'd much rather buy it from SOS..... that way i know a bit of the money is actually going towards keeping the existence such a publication going !!!

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I'm All Ears.

Quote Jelnet:

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So I'm afraid that both your comments hold no water and make little sense.

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My comments were based on what I've heard said by people in the book trade and trade press.

Since the collapse of the Net Book Agreement, publishers have not set a retail price so much as suggested one by printing it on their books. Retailers choose what to sell books for. If a retailer buys in small quantities, they may have to charge more than a retailer who can buy vast amounts and afford a loss-leader. Amazon are always fighting for the cheapest prices, and press publishers for ever larger discounts. One particular (and well-known) publisher stood up to Amazon a little while back and refused to give the hard discounts they wanted - which resulted in Amazon refusing to sell their books for a year. Didn't stop 'em selling just fine elsewhere though. I've seen books prices on Amazon less than a high street shop could buy them from the distributor.

When the last Harry Potter book came out, the supermarkets were the cheapest places to get it. They were selling at a loss, which is common practice. Some smaller independent bookshops who wanted to stock it, and actually sell it, ended up buying in bulk from the supermarkets and reselling at a price that would not force them out of the game, yet still tempt people in. Some folk are happy, even proud, to continue to support independent businesses. It's a choice made for a reason, not about being ripped off as a result of misplaced loyalty.

Quote Jelnet:

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Surely this would be the cheapest way of purchasing said book, being that the author is actually the editor-in-chief of SOS itself.

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A natural assumption to make, but in fact PW has produced this book independently of SOS and with an entirely separate publisher. SOS is offering the book for sale through its on-line shop at the published retail price because it has to buy the book in from the publishers and re-sell it, like any other retail outlet. However, as you've noticed SOS have provided some 'added value' and exclusivity if you're this way inclined, since the books sold through SOS have been personally signed by PW himself!

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...making a price difference of a whopping £11.44!

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Surely worth it for having PW's hand pass over the paper?

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EXCEPT they too were offering FREE postage, thus still making it £6.95 cheaper to buy than from SOS!

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Something they could afford to do since they are selling their own book directly without having to fund a distributor's and re-sellers margins too! The resale margin to SOS and the volume of sales are simply not sufficient to fund free postage. Sad, but true -- and the nature of the modern retail world.

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Jelnet:

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But hang on, in order for Amazon to sell the book below the publisher's price they must get the book some way below the publisher's retail price

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Possibly yes... this is certainly the case for some popular retail lines because Amazon order products for stock in relatively huge quantities and can negotiate very good purchasing deals as a consequence -- and the publishers themselves are happy in such situations because the sales volume outweighs the discounted prices and everyone wins!

But even if Amazon buys in at the standard publisher's cost it has extraordinarily low overheads thanks to very heavily automated order and dispatch systems, plus astonishing shipping deals with the Post Office and other courier services, and can therefore work with far more modest profit margins that would be completely uneconomic to conventional business models.

You might consider paying anything other than the lowest offered price as being 'ripped off', but it is worth taking a moment to consider the bigger picture.

Buying on-line from giant retail organisations like Amazon will always be cheaper than high street retailers or small third-party re-sellers like SOS, and there is nothing that these smaller companies can do about it. Sadly, the result is inevitable and probably irreversible: the demise of smaller independent retailers and the wholesale destruction of the high street shopping experience with all the 'hands-on' opportunities and personal sales advice that only these facilities can offer.

The natural follow on from this situation is that purchase decisions must increasingly be based on third-party review recommendations from magazines or online resources -- and that makes independent and scrupulous publiushers like SOS even more important and valuable -- and worth supporting!

In point of fact, SOS makes very little from the re-selling of PW's book, but choosing to sell them is obviously supportive of PW as well as being of small financial benefit to SOS -- and in today's very challenging magazine publishing climate 'every little helps' (as a certain other mass retail organisation that is destroying community retail outlets likes to say). The very small profit margin that selling PW's book generates for SOS helps in a small but worthwhile way to fund the company and keep it in the business of producing the trusted and independent magazine that you like so much. The same principles apply to everything else sold through the SOS shop.

hugh


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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

i like nathan have close contacts (family) in the publishing & retail industries , and he's bang on the money basically.....



you also seem to forget, Amazon operate as both a market place (for the stuff you sell) AND a retailer in their own right....

so, actually, our comments reflect EXACTLY the way it works....

Quote Jelnet:

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I was quite chuffed then, when I received an email from the SOS mail order department informing me I could purchase the book directly from them for "only" £29.95, plus P&P at £6.95, making a total of £36.90.

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As you have every right to be, irrespective of any pricing alternatives elsewhere. I already have this book on my shelf, and having followed Paul's books for many years I have to say that IMO this one is the best he's ever produced. The way I see it, the culmination of Paul's several decades of experience of home and professional studio practice is worth at least 37 quid, particularly if you're just starting out with music production.

If you're keen to support SOS too, then that's a bonus.

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Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio
A complete mixing method based around the techniques of the world's most famous producers.