Hi all

I'm looking for some guidance on a new PA system for my duo.

We are 2 electric guitars (using processors), 2 vocals and 2 channels of backing tracks (bass & drums). We play in bars, pubs, clubs etc max about 250. All genres from easy stuff to rock and punk stuff.

We currently use a Bose L1 system with 2 towers and 4 subs, which is great in the right venue but not so great in some of the odd shaped rooms we play in.

One of our regular gigs has a house system with a QSC k 10 as a monitor, a couple of Martin audio mains (12" + horn). And a huge Martin Audio sub. But we disconnect the sub as it overpowers everything but we get a great sound from just the mains.

So i was thinking of a pair of QSC K8's as monitors and a couple of K12's as mains with a spirit 12 channel mixer.
Any thoughts on this or suggested alternatives. Budget wise it would be what I can get for the Bose gear. Since we have 2 L1's, 4 subs, 2 tonematch mixers and a paclite amp, so probably about £3500

Thanks in advance.

Could you be a bit more specific about which mixer you have in mind - model number would be great!

Thanks. Mike

Hi Mike
Was thinking about the MFX12

Thanks

The Soundcraft MF and MP range seems good and good value for money. If you'd not made any mixer suggestion at all, they would certainly be in my 'have a look at' list.

However, I'd recommend that you also look closely at the Allen & Heath ZED range. I'm assuming that you definitely want on-board effects and thus suggest the ZED16FX or ZED22FX.

The Soundcraft has some simple groups, but the two ZEDs don't. So if you need/want groups then those two models won't suit. You'd need to go to the ZED420 - a mixer with many more facilities, but no FX - if groups are more important than FX. I have a ZED420 and am very pleased with it. It's one of those pieces of kit where the layout, design, flexibility and functionality just seems 'right'. (I also have one of the smaller Soundcrafts which serves me well for smaller gigs.)

The ZEDs have 100mm faders, whereas the Soundcraft has 60mm. It does make a difference to ease of mixing - or in my experiemce anyway! The build-quality of the ZEDs is also very solid and, to me, seems a step-up from the Soundcrafts. For life on the road that's important as you know.

You might have also looked at some of the mixers from Mackie. I've used a few of these, but again to me they're not in the same class as the ZEDs.

Just my tuppence-worth. Others will be along shortly to disagree!

Oh! Whatever you decide on I'd recommend that you get a proper flightcase for it. Flightcase Warehouse do a good range which are tailor-made for specific mixer models.

M

Thanks mike, I'll look into the ZED range

Regarding the flight case I'll certainly be doing that for sure.

Anyone out there got any comments on the speakers? I deffinately want to go powered.

Thanks

Never used the QSC Ks, but have heard them and was quite impressed. People I respect like them too.

HTH. M

Thanks Mike

I just read the K8 specs and the case does not allow it to be used as a wedge monitor, only the 10&12 have that. So looks like I'll need a couple of K10's for monitors and a couple of K12's for mains, and with the deep switch we should have plently of bass without a sub.
Shame about the k8 cos smaller monitors would have been nicer and they have a wider dispersion so positioning wouldn't have been so critical for the monitors


Would love to hear comments from others as well though.

Cheers

I really like the QSC K series and you're right, the K8's do not have the right angles for monitoring purposes.

However, as good as the K12's are, they would not handle your backing tracks if there are bass elements involved - if there are, then you would need a sub to supplement the K12s.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Thanks Bob

Bass wise, on our backing tracks we have drums (midi created using NI Battery) and bass guitar (using one of the instruments in Logic pro).

Interestingly in the venue we play which their own system, we do not connect their sub because there is just too much bass and it over powers everything ( we have no control over the power amps, they are locked away, only the mixer and we tried eq'ing the bass out but no good with the sub connected).
We do get a great sound with adequate bass from the Martin audio speakers though so I figured the deep switch on the K12's might suffice. But the venue with their own system is quite a small pub, about 150 max so perhaps that's why, and for a larger club we would need at least one Ksub. The cost is an issue then though, unless you want to buy my Bose kit for £4.5k. (LOL)

Thanks again

If you have bass guitar and kick on your backing tracks then you would be pushing the K12s in a 250 capacity pub, and whilst they have good onboard protection, you wouldn't want to risk it. Also there's no way a 12" speaker will cover bass instruments at volume. The Deep Mode appears to just be an EQ tweak, so not inherently changing the speaker.

If you want to avoid subs, then maybe look at some 15" speakers, perhaps JBL Eons. I believe the latest are pretty loud, but probably not as nice as the K12s, and even then would not cover bass at volume.

Not familiar with the Martins, but when you tried to attenuate the bass you did listen out front didn't you?

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Thanks again Bob

When we tried the sub connected we did stand out front. Actually the first time we used it we played the whole gig with it connected. It didn't sound good, all our regulars said itnwas really bassheavy and much they preferred the Bose kit even though the room shape didn't suit it. So we went back to using it, it wasn't till we went in on a Sunday morning to spend more time with the installed kit did we try it with lots of different changes. Without the sub was by far the best sound, so we have stuck with that and have a great sound and response from the audience.

Regarding the 12 speaker not pushing bass, I noticed the K sub is A 2x12 unit. So is it not,that good?. Also TBh if a sub is essential then I think we'll stay with the Bose kit, since as well as the cost, lugging and storing a sub ( even as compact as the k sub) is going to be a problem.

Thanks again I appreciate it.

Well it sounds like the system you're talking about wasn't well balanced, or your backing tracks are bass heavy - only explanations. If your backing tracks are bass heavy, I'd be even more careful about putting them through a system without subs.

Re the dual 12" K-sub, it's all to do with design. I haven't heard that unit, but it has reasonable reviews.

I'm not familiar with the Bose system, but if it works for you why not stick with that and hire in for larger gigs?

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Do you reckon I'll get away with one sub and 2 K12's?

Thanks

Well I went with 2xK12's and one K sub for FOH in the end. Picked it up from those nice people at Andertons.

First gig on Sat. Fingers crossed it sounds awesome. LOL

Now to sell my stack of Bose L 1 gear .

Which desk did you end up going for?

I have been using an Allen & Heath ZED22FX for over 3 years now and it has been absolutely faultless. The 100mm faders do make mixing a doddle and the onboard FX has everything you need, although you can only have 1 effect at any one time.

It makes me appear to be a much better soundman than I really am! LOL

www.fohhn.de

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J90
Sonic Visions

I got the MFXi8. Worked pretty good when I set it all up, and nice small form factor and good price.