Son has sat on his acoustic. The back is stoved in and there is a split in the top front bout.

It is only a cheap 100quid Kent thing that he takes to the jazz club so I thought I would have a go at patching it up.

Will white PVA wood glue be ok? Don't mind spending a sheckel or two for the right stuff.

Dave.

Any good white glue will do a perfectly good job. But an aliphatic resin is best, Humbrol Wood Glue is easily available.

Get a branded glue rather than a 'no-name' and avoid anything with fancy additives for waterproofing, fast drying, or similar. Just good quality white PVA.

A couple of hints.

For a back and front to be that damaged takes a lot of force. So be prepared for other problems inside. With mirrors and torches have a detailed look inside. Braces might have split, broken away from the back/front, popped out of the kerfings, or all 3 in various combinations. You then have to decide whether you can fix everything by working through the sound hole or not. If you can get to everything you also need to work out how you are going to clamp your repairs. Alternatively, the back has to come off, braces repaired/replaced, splits repaired, and back refitted and rebound.

If you are very lucky, the damage is only limited to the splits in the front and back. Resist the temptation to push the sides of the splits back into place. Get some glue along the splits and then carefully press everything into place. If you press on the split with your fingertip it will open a fraction and draw glue into the split, do that a few times and it will get right into the the corners. Wipe off the excess and leave for 24 hours. If the splits don't fully close you will need to clamp them together. Either with sash cramps across the width of the body, or if you are lucky masking tape across the splits could pull everything together.

Good luck...

but have a very good look at the damage inside before proceeding.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Many thanks Andy.

This is the second acoustic he has (or has had!) trashed due in part to him not sharing his fathers' temperate habits (docs' orders!) but then I was much the same at his age.

That one, a Crafter 12string had the neck snapped off and the tearing of the wood and the chances of ME getting things back in perfect alignment were nil. This time the neck/body joint is sound and so even if it ends up like a big cigarbox, so long as the intonation is ok and the action not as the cheesegrater it will serve I think!

But I shall heed your words, look thrice and then thrice again and glue once.

Dave.

Flushed with my success with the Crafter (which is now in France earning a living) I have decided to have a crack at the be-necked Tanglewood 12 stringer.

It looks pretty straightforward but what I don't know is if I should "unwind" the trussrod a bit before gluing it all up or tweak it later?

Dave.

Yay!! Good for you Dave, getting the bug

To be certain about the truss rod I would need to see it. But as a rule I would prefer to completely slacken a single action truss rod and remove the adjusting nut completely.

To unpick that a little, most truss rods are single acting. When you tighten them the truss rod does the work, when you loosen them, the string tension pulls back the other way. A double acting truss rod is one where the truss rod itself acts in both directions. Your Crafter is almost certainly equipped with a single action truss rod. I would take the opportunity to remove the truss rod nut completely as it will give you a chance to clean it and the threaded part of the truss rod and then lubricate it properly so that it works smoothly when you re-assemble.

What would REALLY help would be a couple of clear, large, pics of the break from a couple of angles. If I can see the nature of the break I might be able to work out some straightforward steps for you to follow to get the best repair possible.

How does that sound Dave?

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

https://www.dropbox.com/home/Public/tanglewood%20pics

Try number two!

Err? Back to glues Andy. Would slow cure epoxy be best for this job?
Dave.

Edited by ef37a (19/03/12 06:56 PM)

Sorry Dave,

I followed the link and it took me to the Dropbox home page. I created an account just in case, but no joy. I use photobucket for this sort of thing, but I think you need to right click on the image in your dropbox public folder to get a link you can post here.

Meanwhile...

once I see the break I'll know better about the glues. But for most headstock breaks I would go for the white glue not epoxy. I'll explain more once I see what we are looking at.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

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Sorry Dave,

I followed the link and it took me to the Dropbox home page. I created an account just in case, but no joy. I use photobucket for this sort of thing, but I think you need to right click on the image in your dropbox public folder to get a link you can post here.

Meanwhile...

once I see the break I'll know better about the glues. But for most headstock breaks I would go for the white glue not epoxy. I'll explain more once I see what we are looking at.

Andy

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Oh! It works this end! I did start off with photobucket since I have been meaning to get to grips with posting links to pictures and things but the site is now "all things to all men" and I could not pick my way thru just getting a link to pictures.

It is not the headstock Andy but the neck has broken off the body at the heel which is all part of the neck and joins the body at the 14th fret.

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/acoustic_guitars_detail.asp?stock=px-EH127XF 3074

Dave.

Ahhh, gottcha. I understand now.

I've done repairs like this before too And would still use white glue.

On one occasion I had a guitar in where an earlier repair to a split heel had come apart. It had been glued with cascamite and then screwed. Was a real pain to fix. It was an old Hofner with a central maple section running the full length of the neck and heel and mahogany outer sections. I had to remove the zinc plated screw that had corroded, then I had to remove wood from both sides of the break to clear the cascamite, make a fillet of mahogany with a maple centre section to match the wood that had been removed, then trim the fillet so the neck seated at the correct angle with the maple running continuously. After glueing I had to drill out the screw hole and fit a wooden plug to make the heel sound, then refit the heel cap and french polish the repair.

Wasn't totally invisible, but it was close. And the original repair failed because cascamite was the wrong glue, far too brittle. Epoxy isn't as bad as that, but in the long term it would still be more likely to fail than a repair with a decent wood glue. Remember, necks are often made with a heel block built up from glued on pieces. A repair with wood glue is really just the same as that.

Anyway. pics would still help, but meanwhile... is the break completely through the heel leaving the bottom of the heel still glued in place and the part still attached to the neck moving freely in the socket but still attached by the fretboard glued to the top?

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote ef37a:

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https://www.dropbox.com/home/Public/tanglewood%20pics

Try number two!

Err? Back to glues Andy. Would slow cure epoxy be best for this job?
Dave.

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https://www.dropbox.com/home/Public Maybe?

Dave.

Sorry Dave... you guessed, it takes me to the main dropbox sign in page.

I believe the technical term is AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

If it gives you the option to generate a link to put in an email send me a PM and I'll give you my email addy if that helps.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

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Sorry Dave... you guessed, it takes me to the main dropbox sign in page.

I believe the technical term is AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Andy

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If it makes you feel any better (prolly not) I've been trying to look at this too

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Here are Dave's pictures








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Madman_Greg

thanks for that greg...

Ohhh... not very nice Dave

The good news is that the heel block looks like a nice easy job. Very clean break, and that dowel makes an ideal locating pin. Perfect candidate for simple wood glue.

The problems are in all the other things you need to check/fix/address before you get that far.

The first job on the list is to carefully examine that front cross brace and make sure that the glue joint is still sound across the full width of the body. And you also need to check that it is still properly seated in the kurfings around the sides of the body. I would also check all of the other braces and the reinforcement around the soundhole at the same time. The front will have flexed a long way before finally breaking and there is a real risk that this has broken the glue joints between the front and braces. If you do find any problems here, they need to be reglued first. It's a fiddly job, but it can be done through the soundhole and 'temporary access hole'. Normal white wood glue is the one to use, and you can use thin, flexible, plastic strips to work the glue between the brace and the front. I have taped 3cm strips of plastic to the end of wooden coffee stirrers to make tools to get glue into hard to reach places. The hardest part is clamping the braces if you have to reglue them. If there is just a small section near the soundhole it's easy, but if you have to glue near the ends of the braces it gets difficult. In the past I have had to make clamping cauls to put over the braces, wood blocks against the back of the guitar, and then used wooden wedges to press them apart to get the clamping pressure.

The next job is to reglue the bindings and purflings. This needs to be done before the neck is reattached to the body. The technique for glueing them is the same as I used on Project Uke, so check the pics there to see how I use sellotape to clamp them down. For the purflings you need to work some white glue into the breaks and it's OK to water it down a little (1/4 water, 3/4 glue) to help it flow into the breaks easier. But for the plastic bandings you need something that will glue them to the wood of the body and purflings, the first choice would be Weld-On Cement, then Duco, and last choice would be medium viscosity superglue (Green Zap is ideal for this). You will also need to replace the missing section of binding.

Once that's all done, you need to make a decision. It depends on how everything fits together, but the problem is that trying a test fitting can do more damage. You need to decide whether the fretboard will go back on the body as is, or whether you need to remove some or all of damaged front/rosette from the fretboard tongue and repair that damage first and then glue the neck. But that's rushing ahead and perhaps its best to wait until you've assessed the first stages.

Hope that's all helping Dave. And again, thanks for getting the pics up Greg.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

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thanks for that greg...

And again, thanks for getting the pics up Greg.

Andy

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Thats OK, happy to help Dave out he has helped me out in the past a couple of times.

Firewood came to mind when I saw the pics

Zen, if bigger pics would help, PM your email and I will send the full size ones Dave sent me.

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Madman_Greg

Cheers Greg, I'll let you know if or when they are needed. I still haven't recovered from the forum size ones yet!!

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote zenguitar:

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Cheers Greg, I'll let you know if or when they are needed. I still haven't recovered from the forum size ones yet!!

Andy

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Fine

Made me wonder if Pete Townsend was a bit strapped for cash and giving guitar lessons now

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Madman_Greg

Quote zenguitar:

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Cheers Greg, I'll let you know if or when they are needed. I still haven't recovered from the forum size ones yet!!

Andy

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Yes thanks Greg (sorry I was a bit "sus" at first. I obviously did not have clue one what Dropbox was about!...Still don't really) MUCHO thanks to you Andy for your time and strength of character in looking at the damage wrought by the effects of gravity of a "tired and emotional body" on an acoustic guitar! In fact this has been broken a sixmonth and son is now in France with the other fixed acoustic so no rush. I doubt the guitar was expensive and the machine heads are of dubious quality, also the bridge pins and "ivory" strip have yet to be found so I might just "slap" it together for my own amusement? Never know, I might progress to five chords!

Dave.