My studio is small! ..there I've said it! I'm proud of it, it always performs when asked , and few have left unsatisfied! I am thinking (always dangerous) now though that a problem I have to regularly face is removing the room from recordings.

I have lots of foamy nonsense on the walls, a full , but compact drum kit, a settee and a small but perfectly formed PA in there.

Now what I am considering is getting rid of all my condenser microphones and replacing with high quality dynamics with tighter polar patterns.

Is my thinking skewed or would this solve some of my issues?..ie more close micing with better dynamics..I know I would lose something , but what exactly?

Seriously in a state of Hmmmm, Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

Quote turbodave:

---

getting rid of all my condenser microphones and replacing with high quality dynamics with tighter polar patterns

---

You mean ribbon mics ?

By using close miked dynamics you're not actually solving the source problem, so if you're serious, and it appears you are, then would it be worth treating the room professionally? There's a big difference between 'foamy nonsense' on the walls and having a proper analysis made and designed acoustic treatment.

And I'm sure you won't always want to use a close dynamic..........

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Bob Bickerton:

---

By using close miked dynamics you're not actually solving the source problem, so if you're serious, and it appears you are, then would it be worth treating the room professionally? There's a big difference between 'foamy nonsense' on the walls and having a proper analysis made and designed acoustic treatment.

And I'm sure you won't always want to use a close dynamic..........

Bob

---

Cheers Bob, I think the problem could not be solved with treatment as I have too little space to do anything worthy with. In theory , if i used a dynamic mic set ..completely, there must be enough variation to give me colour and more control over sound sources. The room is 10 x 10 (feet) and contains all the above sh&t so I record by the seat of my pants. It has a low ceiling also and so I thought with good rear rejection from Heil mics for instance, I might improve my signal control. Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

That's true, if you use mics closer to source then the room will have less influence and that will work fine with certain sources.

Some instruments though are better miked a little further away to capture a more accurate sound, but maybe that's not a problem for you.

As an example, I really like an SM7 on vocals and it can be worked at zero distance (well the capsule is set back the the body), so that would be workable, violin or acoustic guitar may be more problematic, though I quite like a close miked acoustic guitar, you just have to be more fussy about mic placement.

Nothing inherently wrong with nice dynamics!

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

Are you suitably stocked with reflexion (instrument?) filters and duvets?

Is there a particular frequency band that the room resonates at?

--------------------
Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote shufflebeat:

---

Are you suitably stocked with reflexion (instrument?) filters and duvets?

Is there a particular frequency band that the room resonates at?

---

I think my main issue is with overheads, vocals and delicate sounds. The room is so small that duvets placed in it would create a duvet atmosphere , with me , Mr. Softlike bouncing around inside.... and even though reflection filters help, the problem is ceiling height.
Is it so wacky to think that getting rid of sensitive microphones and micing closer with quality dynamics will help my situation...it might even develop into a "sound"...I will look into any resonant frequencies when I have a minute. Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

Quote turbodave:

---

...a problem I have to regularly face is removing the room from recordings.

---

It's a perpetual problem, and can only be addressed by dealing with the acoustics of the room. You either turn it into a completely 'dead room' with carefully balanced absorption to remove all traces of room acoustic, or you work in a nice sounding room which complements the music (as in a pro studio) -- but the latter always requires a physically large space and there's no real way around that.

Quote:

---

I have lots of foamy nonsense on the walls

---

Nice turn of phrase! The trick is to balance the foamy nonsense (which soaks up mid and HF but not LF) with effective bass trapping to deal with the low mid and LF. Without achieving that balance (which is non-trivial), the room will tend to sound boxy and unhelpful.

Quote:

---

Now what I am considering is getting rid of all my condenser microphones and replacing with high quality dynamics with tighter polar patterns.

---

The electrical operation of the mic is completely unrelated to the acoustic operation. In other words, the 'tightness' of the (cardioid) polar pattern isn't related to whether you're working with dynamic or capacitor mics. There are very tight cardioid capacitor mics around, just as there are very lose cardioid dunamics... However, having said that, a lot of dynamic mics are intended as stage mics, and because they are stage mics they tend to have tighter patterns than typical studio mics to maximise spill rejection.

So, moving to stage mics might improve the minimisation of room sound in your 'studio' -- but it's important to understand the science behind the concept and not associate it with the wrong things!

Quote:

---

ie more close micing with better dynamics..I know I would lose something , but what exactly?

---

Openness at the high end, and a less dynamic sound with much reduced transient response, mainly. But these things are usually beneficial in the context of acoustic drums, and can add a certin body and weight to vocals and other sources too.

With drum overheads in a low-ceilinged room, it can be helpful to place the mics as close to the ceiling as possible, using omnis if necessary to get the capsule on the boundary. Placing foam directly above the mics can also help a lot. Better still, use boundary mics! The logic is that by using boundary zone mics (and /or foam) you are removing one set of reflections completely. In contrast, if you place overheads a foot or so below the ceiling, they are going to get a very strong early reflection 2ms after the direct sound, and that will inherently colour the sound quite heavily.

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Cheers Hugh , appreciate the use of " " around the word studio, and all its ramifications. No it ain't a studio, more a large cupboard with some recording space in it. I do have my overheads close to the ceiling and have foam behind them, and have achieved respectable results considering my limitations...(emphasis on MY). No, If you had £500 and my space, would you buy a condenser or say an RE20? for vox and acoustic instruments. (vague I know)Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

The RE20 is a lovely mic and I have often used it to capture a wide variety of intruments and voices. And it may be that in your studio it delivers more usable results than, say, a Rode NT-1A... but it's impossible to say without hearing the room and trying it in practice.

If you compare the published polar patterns for those two mics at www.microphone-data.com you'll see that they aren't that different through most of the frequency range!

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Cheers Hugh! I think most of my problems stem from recording young bands and difficulty in educating in the use of mics, distances etc. I currently use my trusty Newmann retro with a Mullard valve or a KMS 105 (which is better for the more wayward vocalist in that they can get up close and personal with it) , which on reflection is my useful microphone..a condenser with a tighter polar pattern...hmmm! Thanks for the replies. Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!

Quote turbodave:

---

...or a KMS 105 (which is better for the more wayward vocalist in that they can get up close and personal with it) , which on reflection is my useful microphone..a condenser with a tighter polar pattern...hmmm!

---

yep, stage mics can be very useful... even capacitor stage mics!

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

---

With drum overheads in a low-ceilinged room, it can be helpful to place the mics as close to the ceiling as possible, using omnis if necessary to get the capsule on the boundary. Placing foam directly above the mics can also help a lot. / In contrast, if you place overheads a foot or so below the ceiling, they are going to get a very strong early reflection 2ms after the direct sound, and that will inherently colour the sound quite heavily.
Hugh

---

Nice bit of info there Hugh. I've always wondered the best way to deal with lower ceilings and OHs!

Boundary mic's can really open up a small room....
And not at all limited to drums or "room tone." A floor mic in front of a cello can be a wonderful thing. Use it there for other instruments, or put it on a wall and play something into it. A very useful technique. Foamy stuff elsewhere will control reflections.

I like to think of it in slightly different terms: as if a boundary mic removes the boundary from the room. (Doesn't actually work quite like that, but close.)