Hey guys!

I'm working on getting gear around to record my first batch of finished songs. I'm super pumped about it, but on most days I'm a dirt poor college kid. I can't afford studio time, and I've got pretty much everything I need for a home studio. I just need drum microphones. has anyone heard of this pyle pro kit? It seems to be getting great reviews on all the sites it's sold on. I'm just not completely sold on it yet.

If anyone has any experience with these mics, or any mic-kit recommendations for under three hundo, let 'em fly.

Cheers!

They are (as the price implies) just some badged Chinese rubbish mics.

Sadly ALL these cheap sets are a gross waste of money. The Audix DP5A 5-piece Drum Mic Package is almost certainly the cheapest you will get that actually works. (And don't go for the Audix 'Fusion' set either, it too is rubbish!)

I recommend the AKG Rhythm Pack, though you'll likely need a 57 to augment it.

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Do you need real drum tracks? http://www.drumtracksdirect.co.uk/

SM57 on snare, AKG D112 or Audix D6 on kick, and a couple of reasonable condensor mics on overheads. Job done.

If you really want tom mics, various people here have recommended the bargain-basement "Yoga" ones as being good enough for the price, until you want to spend proper money on proper mics. Never used them myself - I've got some nice Audix tom mics (which really don't get much use, TBH).

I'm one of those who recommend the Yoga tom mics to anyone wanting a set of cheap mics. If you can't afford SM57's or Sennheiser 604's then get the Yoga mics rather than anything priced in between.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

"Yoga 606" is what to look for... I like them too at the budget end of the spectrum. I presume you'll be able to get them in the States.

Wasn't there some talk of a drum mic set from Karma Mics which PW gave such a glowing review to several moons ago?

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote The Red Bladder:

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ALL these cheap sets are a gross waste of money.

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+1

Begin collecting decent mic's (and a couple of SM57s would be a great start) and do the job as best you can - drum mic kits are invariably a waste of money. You'll keep the 57s for life, but the same will not be said of many of the mic's in one of these kits.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote shufflebeat:

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Wasn't there some talk of a drum mic set from Karma Mics which PW gave such a glowing review to several moons ago?

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I guess you mean these:

Karma Mic Set

You can also click-through to Paul's review there.

I see that Karma are now also doing a specific set of drum mics, but they look to be no more than variations on the usual Chinese theme. Having tried a pair of the tiny Karma 'Silver Bullets' I think I'd be more inclined to go for the seven-set of those than the 'drum set'. Much cheaper too and they'd always have a use for other applications in the future. A bonus for the O/P is that Karma are in the States so he'd have no problem getting the mics.

Wot the elf said.
Don't go for a whole-drum box-of-mics unless the budget is big- and even then, probably not.
I have used, and am impressed with, the karma silver bullets. They are so cheap that it's not really worth thinking about. Use the rest of your budget for two sm57s and something second hand for the kick.
It's much easier to work with a set of fairly multipurpose 'standards' and redeploy them on guitar cabs etc. if needed... Can't really do that with dedicated drum mics.

Quote The Elf:

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Quote The Red Bladder:

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ALL these cheap sets are a gross waste of money.

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+1

Begin collecting decent mic's (and a couple of SM57s would be a great start) and do the job as best you can - drum mic kits are invariably a waste of money. You'll keep the 57s for life, but the same will not be said of many of the mic's in one of these kits.

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Might I say at this point, Bollox?

I was tempted to leave it there! But ...

~ The questioner needs a mic set for not a lot of dosh, so.
~ Getting drum tuning right, the mic-positioning right, and the room right is much more to the point than any mike!
~ Therefore the money saved on mics can be used for room treatment, gobos etc.
~ With a set of t-bone mics he can record NOW and in many different ways, and really learn stuff with them

Although getting classic mics is deffo better than not, the OP will also have a whole bunch of different mics that will be useful for micing cabs, accy guitars, vocals.

There is somuch folklore in audio about what MUST Be Used (cue angry god effects).

I've been able to get really great sounds, both live and recorded, with various t-boners . Also fab sounds with 'better' mics too of course. I'd rather use the best mics I can, especially for overheads, but mics are subordinate to getting the sound and the mic placing right.

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PA stuff on FB


Edited by Hugh Robjohns (09/03/12 04:24 PM)

Quote Mike Stranks:

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...Having tried a pair of the tiny Karma 'Silver Bullets' I think I'd be more inclined to go for the seven-set of those than the 'drum set'.

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I stuck a single SB in front of a kit for an emergency multitrack for video the other night. it was the best sounding thing on the recording, and the rest wasn't bad. Not close micing, though.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote Guy Johnson:

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Quote The Elf:

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Quote The Red Bladder:

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ALL these cheap sets are a gross waste of money.

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+1

Begin collecting decent mic's (and a couple of SM57s would be a great start) and do the job as best you can - drum mic kits are invariably a waste of money. You'll keep the 57s for life, but the same will not be said of many of the mic's in one of these kits.

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Might I say at this point, Bollox?

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You can say anything you like. But the OP was asking about 'best drum mic's for value'. In that context I stand by what I said.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

OP: you'll get this sort of disagreeing thread all day long unpess you can tell us what budget you have available. 'value' means different things to different people. So, low as it may be, can you tell us how much you're prepared to spend?

Am I right in thinking those Karma mics are all omnis? If so, I wouldn't recommend them as a starter kit for many styles as you'll have to learn to work with spill, which s doable, but a big ask for a beginner.

The MXL stuff isn't bad for $ in the US. You could get away with a stereo oh pair and a kick and snare mic. (look up 'recorderman an glynn johns technique). Don't know if your budget streches that far?

Hi...

+1 for "Don't buy drum set mic's"

You did mention your budget:

Quote MSUmusician23:

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any mic-kit recommendations for under three hundo...

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Is that "£" or "$" or any other currency?

If I were doing firs demo?
I'd go all in ex-demo... (display units open boxes and all that stuff)

- 2x Shure SM57
- 1X AKG D112 or Audix D6 or Beta 52 (take your pick)
- 2x MXL??? or Rode NT1 or Audio Technica AT 20?? or Oktava or SE Electronics SE??? or AKG Perception...

Plus I'd contact Audio Technica (and others) for "Firs Impressions" try-before-buy thing.
That gives you two more (very good) mics to play with for two weeks (free) you'll also get discount if you decide to buy one of their mics

Ohhh and Google "DIY Subkick"...

Have fun!




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"A legend is an old man with a cane known for what he used to do. I'm still doing it." - Miles Davis

Karma have some cardioid pencils too.

Re Recorderman vs Glyn Johns, you'll be fine with Glyn Johns if your drummer doesn't have a clicky kick mic. The first time you meet a clicky kick mic, your kick is going to be way off down one ear, which sounds strange. Recorderman guarantees that your kick stays in the middle of the stereo image.

Quote grab:

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Recorderman guarantees that your kick stays in the middle of the stereo image.

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So does proper stereo miking technique (i.e. not using a randomly spaced pair of cardioids), aka using your ears to position them...

I've found that an XY overhead/ kit setup works far better than recorderman. Can never get recorderman to sit in the mix right.

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madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt

I've always used the BETA 52A on the kick and I love it. No too expensive and good sound.

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hire wedding bands & hire wedding entertainment at Music Live.

Quote grab:

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...you'll be fine with Glyn Johns if your drummer doesn't have a clicky kick mic. The first time you meet a clicky kick mic, your kick is going to be way off down one ear, which sounds strange.

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Do you mean a 'clicky kick mic', or just a clicky kick drum?

If the latter, I presume the lop-sided effect is because the floor tom provides some acoustic shadowing of the HF elements of the clicky bass to the left hand overhead in the GJ method.

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Recorderman guarantees that your kick stays in the middle of the stereo image.

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I guess this is because the left hand overhead is rather higher and can still 'see' the kick drum.

I must admit, I've never used the 'Recorderman' technique, although I have used the GJ technique a few times. I generally prefer XY overheads, though.

In all cases, it is imperative to get the overheads equi-distant from the snare and, unless you roll all the bass out of them (which you should if you're cloemiking the individual drums), equi-distant from the kick too. Failure to do this will produce lop-sided mixes.

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Could well be the equidistance thing - it's guaranteed with Recorderman, but it's not something I'd met with Glyn Johns.

It wasn't something I noticed with our previous drummer, probably bcos (a) the balanced overhead point was a bit higher, and (b) his kick was deep and woofly. On our current drummer's kit, the overhead sounds better lower and the kick is much more clicky though, and it was very obviously wrong. Unfortunately it was very obviously wrong *after* we'd recorded, bcos I was in a hurry and I'd not checked the overheads in stereo.

Oops! easily done, but highlights the importance of spending time getting it right at the recording, and the time consuming difficulty of fixing things afterwards compared to a few minutes during the session.

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Off topic but another issue I've come across with 'recorderman' overheads is one where a weird imaging artifact occurs with the crash cymbals. One seems to swing across the stereo image suddenly. It's infrequent, but very strange and offputting. I mentioned this to another engineer who was using the technique and he also had come across the issue. Personally I prefer spaced overheads, XY or mono with stereo rooms.

J

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www.jackruston.com

Quote Jack Ruston:

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Personally I prefer spaced overheads, XY...

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+1

'Recorderman' sounds inherently very 'roomy' to me - I prefer to add room mic's to taste.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

A 'glyn johns method' fan here!

I think its great if your mic cabinet is limited. I'v even gotten great results recording a live band back in the day when i only had 8 inputs. I prefer XY and room mics, though I would pick GJ over just XY with no room mics.

Either way, I find measuring both mics equally from the centre of the snare absolutely essential!

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I'm a dirt poor college kid.

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sounds like the op is on a very tight budget to me!!! i asked this question a while back for an at home setup as i really couldnt justify another expensive (to me) setup like i have in my recording space. the silver bullets were mentioned and some mics off cpc, also red audio mics, as it happened i didnt go for any mics in the end i got another ekit and use superior drummer isntead, so i can keep the neighbours from kicking off lol

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www.humandrums.com
online session drumming at realistic prices

Quote humandrums:

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sounds like the op is on a very tight budget to me!!! i asked this question a while back for an at home setup as i really couldnt justify another expensive (to me) setup like i have in my recording space. the silver bullets were mentioned and some mics off cpc, also red audio mics, as it happened i didnt go for any mics in the end i got another ekit and use superior drummer isntead, so i can keep the neighbours from kicking off lol

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If an ekit is considered an acceptable alternative to miced real drums, any discussion of WHICH mics to use seems a minor issue!

Quote Jack Ruston:

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...a weird imaging artifact occurs with the crash cymbals. One seems to swing across the stereo image suddenly.

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I've heard this too, and I think it is caused by the physical movement of the cymbal. Cymbals tend to have a 'null' in their 'polar pattern' which extends on the plane of the cymbal's rim. If the cymbal is walloped and then tilts and swings on its stand, that 'null' may well point briefly in the direction of one or other of the overheads, resulting in a brief dip in level and a corresponding violent image shift.

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Quote Jack Ruston:

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...a weird imaging artifact occurs with the crash cymbals. One seems to swing across the stereo image suddenly.

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I've heard this too, and I think it is caused by the physical movement of the cymbal. Cymbals tend to have a 'null' in their 'polar pattern' which extends on the plane of the cymbal's rim. If the cymbal is walloped and then tilts and swings on its stand, that 'null' may well point briefly in the direction of one or other of the overheads, resulting in a brief dip in level and a corresponding violent image shift.

Hugh

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Not to mention them also being an excellent moving reflective surface for everything else to bounce off.

Quote Jack Ruston:

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Off topic but another issue I've come across with 'recorderman' overheads is one where a weird imaging artifact occurs with the crash cymbals. One seems to swing across the stereo image suddenly. It's infrequent, but very strange and offputting. I mentioned this to another engineer who was using the technique and he also had come across the issue. Personally I prefer spaced overheads, XY or mono with stereo rooms.

J

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I've noticed the same thing every time I've used GJ method too -- probably the only way to avoid it is 'spot' mic-ing every cymbal with an overhead to avoid the null that Hugh mentioned, but that hardly seems rock n roll! I quite like the swishy effect tbh

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I've heard this too, and I think it is caused by the physical movement of the cymbal. Cymbals tend to have a 'null' in their 'polar pattern' which extends on the plane of the cymbal's rim. If the cymbal is walloped and then tilts and swings on its stand, that 'null' may well point briefly in the direction of one or other of the overheads, resulting in a brief dip in level and a corresponding violent image shift.

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Presumably if mic is well above the cymbal, this shouldn't happen, right ?

Quote chris...:

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Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I've heard this too, and I think it is caused by the physical movement of the cymbal. Cymbals tend to have a 'null' in their 'polar pattern' which extends on the plane of the cymbal's rim. If the cymbal is walloped and then tilts and swings on its stand, that 'null' may well point briefly in the direction of one or other of the overheads, resulting in a brief dip in level and a corresponding violent image shift.

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Presumably if mic is well above the cymbal, this shouldn't happen, right ?

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I suppose the cymbal is still going to bleed into the other overhead, which will almost certainly catch the null -- unless you're talking about moving the overheads so high they become more like room mics?

Well, it doesn't happen with A B or X Y positions. So maybe it's the fact that one overhead is above and one below the plane of the cymbals.

J

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www.jackruston.com

I have always used spaced overheads - but recently tried ORTF with a pair of AKG C451e - I liked it A LOT! and as a small bonus it also takes less time to set up. That said I have just got a pair of ribbons (sE R1) so another experiment will be had next time. And I just got one sE Z5600a II so when I get another I'll probably go for the Recorderman.

I saw a video recently of George Massenburg - who said he never does a session without some kind of experiment. I like that approach, especially when it comes from someone with as much experience as GM.

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Daniel Davis
Edinburgh Recording Studio Windmill Sound

As far as budget bass drum/kick mics go I have had some interesting results. It's only the last few years with China entering the fray that I have been mildly interested in the budget mics as I have had in my collection for years the usual suspects like the RE20, Beta91, D12 and D112, D6, E902 plus a few others that I have collected over the years but I have always been interested in the kick drum and how say a broadcast mic like th RE20 became a favourite on the kick and thought it worth looking at some of the budgets when the Chinese manufacturing phenomena hit..

I have also tried/borrowed some budget kick drum mics which have given some surprising results. Someone mentioned the Yoga and as far as I can see from what I have come into contact as far as budget kick drum mics go it appears Yoga "badge-manufacture" microphones for other companies.

Opening up the Yoga DM 788 it looks very close to the CAD D12, D10 and KBM412 as well as the JTS TX-2 and Proel DM12. Though they do not sound the same as the finishing is differing with those mentioned they don't sound terrible within the guise of live work. I strongly suspect some of the sub £50-£60 kick mics appearing on the net are done and badged in that fashion by Yoga. I've had some pleasant results with the DAP DM-20 but I'm not sure if that is a re badge Yoga capsule. As usual I found these budget kick mics presented opportunities for a tweakers dream with isolating and small component changes. For live work I would look at the more robust budget mics (if going budget) such as the CAD D12, CAD KBM412 and DAP DM-20. Someone mentioned T Bone. I have never tried one or opened one up but we played a summer event recently and the PA guy had all the usual AKG/Shure/EV mics on the kit apart from the kick (even had a few Calrecs like I have)... he had a t.bone BD 300 and it sounded great. He said for live work as he found for him it suited his rig and he was able to get a sound in all environments fairly quickly and it was very robust and was isolated well. The TBone does though strongly resemble the YOGA/JTS/CAD/PROEL mentioned so I am betting it is a re badge and comes from the YOGA factory and has been tweaked by Thomann within the isolation/body.

As mentioned with studio use placement, room acoustics and just experimenting I have found with budget kick mics it takes a little longer but some pleasant sounds can be had. Okay, not as immediate as say an RE20 but when one is on a budget as far as kick goes there are some half decent mics out there but I have no idea what the consistency is like.

I have only tinkered/tried tried budget kick drum mics so can't give any views on the other mics

I use some very cheap dynamic drum mics (CAM) on my kit - kick, snare, and middle tom, with a pair of Tandy PZMs with the backs taken off to give an omni pattern, for the left and right toms and cymbals. Very happy with the results, and the same configuration has worked live too. I wouln't pretend it was anything but an amateur set-up though, depends what your aspirations are!

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

For quick-and dirty (but very satisfying) drum recording, I go with the GJ method every time. It's especially useful for live recordings where both inputs and budget are limited. As regards possible stereo discrepancy in the low-end, I find that it's possible to do a lot by simply panning the FT-side mic a bit closer to the centre.

And, although I've got a fair mic locker these days, I'll always use these as OH mics when I'm using the GJ setup. They're genuinely horrible on EVERY other sound source I've tried them on, but excel in this situation.

Which is a bit odd, but opens the possibility of a 4-mic set from Thomann (2-SDCs, a kick and a snare mic) which will cost buttons.

...if I'm doing a full kit recording, I love the sound of a pair of AKG451s as OHs - the presence lift at 12K makes the top end of the kit absolutely sing...although I'm going to be trying a couple of SE Ribbon mics as stereo OHs with a nice Neumann as a mono central OH on Friday in an undoubtedly vain attempt to copy Nigel Godrich's setup...

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"We knocked on the doors of Hell's darker chambers..." But no-one answered, so we went to the pub instead.

Many things can serve as a "drum mic." People regularly use vocal mics (RE20) for kick drum, and different microphones can work in a pinch (SM58). Beware the false economy of cheap music gear. Two good mics will sound better (and have more applications) than 6 junk ones. Upgrading your gear is going to cost you more if you continue recording in the future. If this is all you'll ever need, don't worry.

Don't need to mic the drums, need to mic the kit . Not every drum needs something pointing at it. It's a easier to mix when you have a channel for every tom, but it's not always necessary (they may not even USE that tom in this song) and won't matter much if the sound is awful.

I assume because you're buying your own, you have the benefit of time and not money. So use your time, wear on your drummer's patience and piss him off while you spend ages getting him to tune his kit, trying to get rid of that rattle and trying out all the junk you have. Move the kit around the room. Get the best stands you can afford. Try ALL of the overhead techniques that you can. Spaced pair, recorderman, glyn johns, coincident, try mono. Keep trying until you like it, and then move it, fail and go back to what worked. Write it down. Get tape, take pictures.

I'm trying really hard not to write an essay on cheap amateur drum miking (may have already ), but a lot of seemingly bizarre techniques are actually conventional. Producing music has nothing to do with honesty.

The biggest difference between you and pro engineers isn't their budget. It's that they have experience and knowledge that makes these decisions quicker and easier. But they're paid for their time and you're in college.

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gentle robot - chapel hill rock band