Hi,
I'm looking for suggeestions for PC recording software. I'm a total novice at recording but here's the story so far.

I'm a solo guitarist/bassist, playing classic/progressive rock and I want to record guitar, bass, and vocals along with a programmable drum rack. I play guitar through a Line 6 UX1 into my PC-based Line 6 POD Farm guitar interface.

Up to now I've been dabbling with the copy of Ableton Live Lite that came with it. Its ease of use means I'm finding my way around it OK, and it's bitten me with the recording bug but I'm not convinced it's the right one for what I want to do. Doing a bit of research I get the impression that Ableton Live is more geared to live DJ work than a traditional 3-piece rock band. I can't get the rock drum sounds I'm looking for with the samples and presets included.

What would you recommend for the kind of music I want to record? Would an upgrade to Live 8 do the trick, or is Ableton best left to the DJ's? Drum rack wise, I'm looking at XLN Addictive Drums. Also given that I'm new to this, ease of use is a big factor.

Suggestions gratefully received!

I like Studio One as it has a nice clean workflow.I'm sure other people will recommend others.
The best bet is to try a few demos and see what clicks with you.
The other thing of course is how much you want to spend.
Mulab do a free entry level version of their software,might be worth a try.

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Quote Resonator:

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The best bet is to try a few demos and see what clicks with you.

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+1, they all do much the same. Reaper's worth demoing.

Everyone has their favourite and mine is Cubase. This said I'd definitely agree with giving Reaper a try - you've nothing to lose. It's very capable and relatively easy to get running with.

Some software does lean towards loop-based composition, which is where I suspect you're hitting the problems with Ableton Live. My blood runs cold at the thought of producing an entire rock track with it! A more linear recording system, such as Cubase, Pro Tools, Reaper, or the like is probably going to suit you better.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote Atmospherium:

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Up to now I've been dabbling with the copy of Ableton Live Lite that came with it. Its ease of use means I'm finding my way around it OK, and it's bitten me with the recording bug but I'm not convinced it's the right one for what I want to do. Doing a bit of research I get the impression that Ableton Live is more geared to live DJ work than a traditional 3-piece rock band. I can't get the rock drum sounds I'm looking for with the samples and presets included.

What would you recommend for the kind of music I want to record? Would an upgrade to Live 8 do the trick, or is Ableton best left to the DJ's? Drum rack wise, I'm looking at XLN Addictive Drums. Also given that I'm new to this, ease of use is a big factor.

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It's quite a common situation that new muso's getting into this spend a long time trying out all of the sequencers only to find themselves still confused by the options.

End of the day they all do the same job. They have different work flows and different ways of obtaining the end results but the theory is all the same. The shouldn't be a reason why you wouldn't be able to do whatever you need to inside of Ableton, and if you've already started to learn it and find yourself able to navigate it fairly well it's pointless chop'in and changing your software choice unless you find something is missing that you need 100%.

What's acturly wrong with the software? Is it just the samples are not to your taste?

No matter which sequencer you go for you'll be looking into investing into better sound packs and synths. The Ableton ones are better than most but still they are just there to get you started. If you want a certain sound from your samples you need to go out there and find them. It might even be a case that you can craft your current sounds into what you need but then that's the joy's of working inside the box, in that you have such extensive control over the contents of your sonic pallet.

Your just starting out and I know it's little comfort but we've all been there. I could hand you a sample pack and give the same sample pack to three other producers and I can promise you each person would turn in vastly different mixes depending upon their style and experience.

Perhaps not the answer you want to hear, but honestly your better off sticking with a sequencer you find easy to use and learning it backwards than spending the next 2 years auditioning all of the sequencers out there, and finding yourself no more further forward technique wise from where you are now.

*edit* In light of Elf's comments above... I was debating saying that in regards to the liner recording. If you feel it's easier to work that way then that is a good reason to change and you have Cubase/Sonar/reaper/Studio one/Protools as options and it's one of the few valid reasons. That said I've worked with plenty of people who have done accustic/band recordings in Ableton and the is no reason why you shouldn't also be able to if you find that layout and workflow easy to deal with.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Hi there

I think I was in a similar situation to you a few years back (still a novice, but there you go). I also record my own prog/rock and I find Cubase really good for that type of stuff. I'm no expert, but I've found it excellent for organising the type of tracks you'll be recording, and it works well with programmed drums alongside.

It's right that everyone has their favourite, there are always people who do and don't like different software, and to a large degree it's whatever you get used to, but I'd certainly recommend Cubase as a good package. As a newbie to most of it, I could understand what it was trying to do and learned how to do things. It's got more than enough gizmos for prog as well.

Good luck, and happy to give you the benefit of my newbie experience with it if it helps.

Quote Pete Kaine:

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Quote Atmospherium:

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Up to now I've been dabbling with the copy of Ableton Live Lite that came with it. Its ease of use means I'm finding my way around it OK, and it's bitten me with the recording bug but I'm not convinced it's the right one for what I want to do. Doing a bit of research I get the impression that Ableton Live is more geared to live DJ work than a traditional 3-piece rock band. I can't get the rock drum sounds I'm looking for with the samples and presets included.

What would you recommend for the kind of music I want to record? Would an upgrade to Live 8 do the trick, or is Ableton best left to the DJ's? Drum rack wise, I'm looking at XLN Addictive Drums. Also given that I'm new to this, ease of use is a big factor.

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What's acturly wrong with the software? Is it just the samples are not to your taste?

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Basically, I find (IMHO) the drum sounds too electronic, 'dance-y' unrealistic. Looking at the other samples available they seem to point in the same direction, for DJ’ing or making dance/electronic-style music.

I suppose what I’m getting at is, are different applications better suited to recording different styles of music? And if I’m looking to record guitar/bass prog/classic rock, should I be looking at an application other an Ableton?

Or, how about I plug in a suitable drum rack into Ableton to give me drum sounds I need? Would this be a ‘not quite right, but it’ll do the job’ scenario?
A post above mentioned ‘linear’ recording – should I be looking in this direction for the style of music I want to record?

Many thanks for all the suggestions so far!

Quote Atmospherium:

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Basically, I find (IMHO) the drum sounds too electronic, 'dance-y' unrealistic. Looking at the other samples available they seem to point in the same direction, for DJ’ing or making dance/electronic-style music.

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This is not really the DAW, but it does show its leanings. It sounds like you just need some samples more suited to your taste.

Being someone who comes from a rock/prog background and who is still regularly involved with recording/mixing these genres I'd unhesitatingly point you in the direction of Steven Slate Drums. Here you will find the drum sounds you desire. You can use NI Kontakt or Kontakt player to play the samples and you will need a VST-capable host to run Kontakt.

If you're at all unsure then PM me and I can let you hear some examples of rock/prog I've engineered/mixed with SSD EX (I picked mine up on one of those 'no brainer' deals - it genuinely was a ludicrously low price) and you can hear for yourself.

(I use Cubase/Kontakt).

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote Atmospherium:

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Basically, I find (IMHO) the drum sounds too electronic, 'dance-y' unrealistic. Looking at the other samples available they seem to point in the same direction, for DJ’ing or making dance/electronic-style music.

I suppose what I’m getting at is, are different applications better suited to recording different styles of music? And if I’m looking to record guitar/bass prog/classic rock, should I be looking at an application other an Ableton?

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To understand that, you need to understand the history of Ableton. It was initally designed as a live remix tool to allow the bridge between dj and musician and let electronic performance artist work in real time.

So the are a lot of clever time stretching tools and the such in there which gives the inital impression it's designed for that market. That said over the revisions those same guys using it live become used to it's fast workflow and demanded more and more features to make it suitable for studio use and Ableton have worked hard to include them, turning it from a live remix tool to a full blown studio suite.

Cubase on the other hand was designed first and foremost as a sequncer working with midi (i.e. hardware out of the box) and then got revamped a good decade ago now into the form you see now.

However Cubase in it's current form is an excellent in the box sequncer and editing tool whilst Ableton hasn't ever quite stretched itself to the same extent in the midi control department. Sure you can control external kit if you need too, but I would suggest it isn't quite as flexible as Cubase so if you were using it to trigger a lot of outboard that might swing it, but then your playing it all in anyway so midi might not be all that important. On the flip side because Cubase was initally designed as a real world studio tool, a lot of the thinking behind the design only makes sense if your used to working in a real studio and it can be a bit more taxing to get your head around off the bat, but then the will be a steep learning curve to any software you choose to pick up.

Quote Atmospherium:

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Or, how about I plug in a suitable drum rack into Ableton to give me drum sounds I need? Would this be a ‘not quite right, but it’ll do the job’ scenario?

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You would do this with any sequencer, so it's not really a ‘not quite right, but it’ll do the job’ scenario, rather it's a "this is how it is" senario. I can't think of any sequncer where I wouldn't want to go out and purchase more sound sources, no matter what the style.

Quote Atmospherium:

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A post above mentioned ‘linear’ recording – should I be looking in this direction for the style of music I want to record?

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Not a million miles different from Abletons track view. Cubase maybe slightly better featured in those regards, but you gain some, you lose some.

Steven Slate drums. I've heard great things about it from colleagues, but it's not my field so no personal experiance, any offer from Mr Elf through for a chat about your options is time well spent as he's certainly experienced in your field.

Disclosure time - I'm a Cubase user too. Why? I've been using Cubase since the Atari and I know it well and I don't wish to spend a huge amount of time learning another sequncer to that extent. I do however use Ableton/Sonar/Reaper regularly and it'd be a real toss up in regards to what I'd choose if I was learning from scratch right now.

But yeah, it does seem like your unhappy with your sounds rather than your sequencer. Whichever sequencer you go with it'll be able to use VSTi plug in's (well except Reason, but that wouldn't meet your requirements) of which Steven Slate is one and whatever direction you go you'll still be able to use it, so it could be money well spent regardless.

So take Elf up on his kind offer and let him point you in the right direction sounds wise and try them in your current sequencer. Then once you have a understanding of VST's and how they work grab the Cubase trial for which you'll need to invest in a USB-eLicenser (£20 which is why I said get to grips with how plug in's work first) and then you can test them side by side for a month and see which one suits your working style the best and make your choice from there.

The other cheaper option here is to grab Reaper and play about with that for a few weeks. It works in the same way as Cubase althrough the feature set is leaning in a slightly different direction. It is however free to trial and might give you some insight into how more traditional sequencers are laid out.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

+1 for Reaper. Good value, very flexible. There is a free 30 day trial(more in some cases!) and it is incredibly easy to download/setup. Still 'growing' and not quite as good as Cubase on the MIDI side but wonderfully simple in design and application and is fairly easy on CPU resources. I recently crossed over (ie paid my £40) from Cubase (Essential) to Reaper so still getting to grips with it. A few teething issues on my part but happy with it. Excellent forum. It has a good selection of plugins (FX) but very few 'free' VSTi's, unlike Cubase where you get a fair chunk of Halion thrown in.

Martin

Another +1 for Reaper - it can be confusing at first, but once you master its idiosyncracies there's very little it can't do

And such a small footprint


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Very grateful for all the helpful replies.

So it sounds like a DAW that allows for linear recording is what I'm after. Must admit, this ties in with the little I've done with Adbleton so far; I've been using arrangement view (time scrolling left-right) which I prefer working with rather than session view (tracks & clips placed vertically). So stick with the Ableton, add a drum plug-in that gives me the drum sounds I'm looking for, and this should do the trick?

I'll try this route, also I'll download a few free demos and give them a try. Reaper is on my list - any more recommendations for free demos, compatible with Line 6 UX1 and POD farm, and with a programmable drum rack (this last one not urgent as a drum rack plug-in is an option)?

Many thanks again

From another Prog/Classic Rock rocker (Close To The Edge, Dark Side, Moving Waves, Tons Of Sobs, etc) I'm in the Cubase/BFD2 camp.
My setup is nearly always vocals, guitar, bass, keyboards, drums, and I've found Cubase 6 to cover much more than I need.

The current version includes a very good amp simulator, good reverbs, and with Halion SE you're covered on all other types of keyboards and strings for those expressive moments
That said I've been using Cubase (still not very well) since late '90's so the upgrade option is quite cost-effective now so no real reason to change. If I was choosing today, I'd give Reaper a real test as it's very cheap to buy (around £40 after you've tested it free for 30 days) and does a very similar job to Cubase as others have mentioned.

Cubase also do a low cost version called Cubase Elements that you could try but doesn't have so many of the instruments that you get in the full version.

For drums I don't think you can 'beat' BFD2. I prefer it to SSD (I've had both) and the classic rock drum sounds are absolutely spot on out of the box. You can can also get many expansion packs from Fxpansion.com (BFD's developers) or from Platinum Samples. I like BFD so much that I've spent far more time experimenting with the drums and grooves than I should have done, but that's me.

Hope this helps.