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stephencribbie
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Joined: 26/09/03
Posts: 4
phase problem in double tracked vocals new
      #975896 - 15/03/12 01:44 PM
I'm not sure but it seems like I have an unusual phase issue with some double tracked vocals.
No big surprise there is a comb filter or phasing type sound occasionally due to the singer being nearly exact in his 2 vocal performances.
The tracks seems to fall in and out of exact synchronization with each other so flipping the phase or moving one track a bit didn't solve the problem for very long.
I moved one track aggressively but it was starting to have a timing issue by the time the phase problem was fixed.
My questions are;
Is this possible, or am I crazy?
Am I a walking advertizement for Waves new In Phase plugin? Which I admit I haven't looked into.
Or is there a work around I'm not aware of?
Short of moving each individual segment of one track and listening for issues I'm at a loss,
I want to avoid this as there are 12 tunes with this problem and time is an issue.

thanks for any help,
Steve


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BJG145



Joined: 06/08/05
Posts: 3396
Loc: Norwich UK
Re: phase problem in double tracked vocals new [Re: stephencribbie]
      #975899 - 15/03/12 01:59 PM
Didn't realise this could happen, but Google has shown me otherwise. Eg, here's a piece by Mike Senior...

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb10/articles/qa0210_2.htm

Using tuning on both takes definitely won't help. Other advice seems to include EQing the two tracks differently, panning them (mono fans disagree that this should be used as a solution), detuning one of them, and mixing them at different levels.


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The Elf
active member


Joined: 14/08/01
Posts: 9426
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Re: phase problem in double tracked vocals [Re: stephencribbie]
      #975905 - 15/03/12 02:17 PM
I'm puzzled as to why this is really a problem.

We DT-ed loads in the days of mutli-track tape and not once did anyone complain about phasing problems. If you could get that phasey sound then you'd nailed the DT and you moved on. The close phasing was desirable and a sure sign you had a great vocalist in front of you.

You could drop the DT back a few dB under the main vocal - does that help? Failing that, can we hear an example?

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4392
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: phase problem in double tracked vocals new [Re: stephencribbie]
      #975917 - 15/03/12 03:07 PM
Currently reading Bruce Swedien's book and he double tracked MJ by getting him to take a step back on the double. Might be worth a try as you will start getting more room relfection which will change the sound marginally.

--------------------
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http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale


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stephencribbie
new member


Joined: 26/09/03
Posts: 4
Re: phase problem in double tracked vocals new [Re: The Elf]
      #975929 - 15/03/12 03:45 PM
Ya, it isn't pleasant phasing, it just pulls the guts out of the track,


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turbodave



Joined: 25/04/08
Posts: 2359
Loc: derbyshire uk
Re: phase problem in double tracked vocals new [Re: stephencribbie]
      #975961 - 15/03/12 06:54 PM
Hi, I would pan...without doubt..in fact one could argue that this effect is used to exploit stereo..so pan left and right and enjoy! Dave

--------------------
My head hurts!


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alexis



Joined: 10/01/03
Posts: 1800
Loc: San Antonio, TX USA
Re: phase problem in double tracked vocals new [Re: stephencribbie]
      #976334 - 17/03/12 12:05 AM
Going after that "big" sound from copying and slipping a vox track 20 msec and panning each of the two tracks pretty far right and left (I don't know the term for that process) ... but trying to avoid phasyness when collapsed to mono ... I tried EQ'ng the slipped copy fairly heavily/differently from the original.

It got that "big" sound because of the 20 msec delay and pan, AND there was no phasyness or weirdness when I collapsed it to mono (that I could hear). I guess it collapsed to mono well because of the EQ differences?



--------------------
Alexis -Cubase7.5.20 64bit;i5-4570 3.2GHz,16GB RAM;W7SP1 64bit on Samsung SSD840 Pro256GB;Seagte 1TB SATA600 Audio;UR28M;Motif8;UAD2Solo;Jamstix 3.3;BCF2K;TC Helicon VoiceOne;RevoicePro2.5


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