Over the past 3 years, i have built my knowledge by online resources, hand on experience and a lot of study. At this point i have not had experience with other plugins other than REAPERS stock plugins, Antress Modern Plugins, most of Bootsy's stuff and random free plugins. I did not go that route because i was being cheap but...because i was a beginner. I do not like making ignorant choices with out research. I do not buy because it is "the most popular". I think i have reached enough experience to start really investing in quality plugins.

I do hear WAVES is professional and very widely used but is it that much better than the free plugins i mentioned above? Is it truly bang for the buck or is just hype sorta like Beats Headphones (which is advertising and truly overpriced) Just using illustration ha.

I am looking a really good "bang for the buck bundle" which included a decent reverb.

Also, would it be worth it just to convert over to Pro Tools? Are their plugins more beneficial over Reapers stock plugins?

Like any other product, there is great stuff out there, and there is fairly average stuff.

You just need to research, demo and use the plugins and start to get a feel for the ones that work good for you. Waves stuff in general, for me, varies from "meh", to "ok" to "really nice and useful" to "great". There are plenty of other companies making great plugins too, including Softube, Soundtoys, Lexicon, Sonnox, Universal Audio, Abbey Road, Brainworx, Cytomic, iZotope, Metrix Halo, Sonalksis, and many others...

Check the user reviews at KVRAudio for more info on particular plugins, and other forums such as Gearslutz.

However, no matter what you get, none of them are going to change a bad mix or arrangement into a great one - they all require skill to get the best out of them, same as the stock plugins.

I have my own list of essentials and nice to haves, but they are so dependent on your music, styles and tastes (and budget!) it's pointless to suggest individual ones.

Start with what you are lacking - perhaps you feel you could do with a better compressor for instance, and investigate the possibilities that third-parties have.

I use Logic but almost exclusively use UAD plug-ins and they are utterly worth while!

Not only do they sound great, I can get them to sound great with ease and they really suit my style of working.

I do not and would not use Waves plug-ins as a matter of principal - their pricing, in my opinion, is corrupt.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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I do not and would not use Waves plug-ins as a matter of principal - their pricing, in my opinion, is corrupt.

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Actually, recently some of their pricing is distinctly better than UAD plugins... ( ! )

Quote desmond:

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Quote Bob Bickerton:

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I do not and would not use Waves plug-ins as a matter of principal - their pricing, in my opinion, is corrupt.

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Actually, recently some of their pricing is distinctly better than UAD plugins... ( ! )

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Do they still do the WUP thing? It was that aspect that I disagreed with, paying premium prices in the first place and then paying an effective rental to keep them alive.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Some great Waves plugins, some less great. Ditto on UA and most others. Far better to mix and match and build your collection gradually. That way you can gett to know one or two new tools well, rather than investing lots of time learning all the new tools in a bundle. Reaper's stock plugins are pretty good, and the wet/dry blend control for each insert often means you can get away with slightly more heavy handed plugins than in some daws. The SSL Duende bundle is a nice bite-sized bundle and would add something new to your setup. DDMF LP10 is inexpensive and very good, and again adds to what you have. And a nice tape sim could be useful... Tone Boosters Ferox is nice and colourful, and benefits from the wet/dry control. Melda do a very comprehensive bundle for a decent price, but the GUIs can be confusing. Depending on what sort of material you're working on, I'm sure we could offer a whole lot more advice...

>Also, would it be worth it just to convert over to Pro Tools? Are their plugins more beneficial over Reapers stock plugins?

I wouldn't go to all the effort of converting to Pro Tools just for the plugins. There are tons of of good plugins out there that you can use in Reaper, some of which have already been mentioned.

I bought a set of Waves plug-ins in the days when most included plug-ins were a bit rubbish. However, the built-in Reaper VST plug-ins are just as good and it is also worth rummaging around the JS plug-ins as there are quite a few interesting ones there too. I haven't tried installing my Waves plug-ins on my current computer as the Reaper ones do the same job.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Quote desmond:

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There are plenty of other companies making great plugins too, including Softube, Soundtoys, Lexicon, Sonnox, Universal Audio, Abbey Road, Brainworx, Cytomic, iZotope, Metrix Halo, Sonalksis, and many others...

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...Also, IK Multimedia and SSL Duende you can add to the list of excellence.

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www.thediplomatz.com

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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Quote desmond:

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Quote Bob Bickerton:

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I do not and would not use Waves plug-ins as a matter of principal - their pricing, in my opinion, is corrupt.

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Actually, recently some of their pricing is distinctly better than UAD plugins... ( ! )

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Do they still do the WUP thing? It was that aspect that I disagreed with, paying premium prices in the first place and then paying an effective rental to keep them alive.

Bob

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Yeah, they do, but there is a lot of misinformation about it. It actually just works like moving from say Cubase 5 to Cubase 6, you'd pay for that if you wanted the new features or compatibility in Cubase 6, if you didn't you wouldn't. Its not like the plugins stop working or anything.

So for example all my Waves plugins are on Version 8, if when version 9 comes out there is a reason for me to upgrade (64bit native compatibility being the obvious one) then I would consider an upgrade, if not I won't. If I wanted to upgrade to version 10 there are no catch-up charges...

Agreed that most companies don't offer this model, but with UAD you have to buy the cards so its swings and roundabouts to me.

Also if you are smart with your purchases, you don't have to pay full price for any Waves product, they always have promotions on - I have never paid more than 50% for any of the Waves plugs I own...

The API collection is amazing as well, you can't get that anywhere else either...

Please don't hijack the OP's thread with another fight about Waves (not that that debate isn't worth having, but it is a thread-derailer).

Quote Scramble:

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Please don't hijack the OP's thread with another fight about Waves (not that that debate isn't worth having, but it is a thread-derailer).

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what?

I'm not hijacking anyone's thread or starting a fight about anything, rather answering a question that's come up during the course of the conversation that may be of relevance to the OP since he mentioned waves.

Quote jaminem:

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Quote Scramble:

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Please don't hijack the OP's thread with another fight about Waves (not that that debate isn't worth having, but it is a thread-derailer).

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what?

I'm not hijacking anyone's thread or starting a fight about anything, rather answering a question that's come up during the course of the conversation that may be of relevance to the OP since he mentioned waves.

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I think Scramble was trying to nip a hot topic in the bud, before it become a hijacked-thread.

It's not worked so far(!)

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www.thediplomatz.com

I wasn't saying that you, Jaminem (or anyone else), have now hijacked the thread. I was saying please don't let another one of those long debates spiral out of control.

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The API collection is amazing as well, you can't get that anywhere else either...

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...although UAD are due to bring out their API emulations before too long...

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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I use Logic but almost exclusively use UAD plug-ins and they are utterly worth while!

Not only do they sound great, I can get them to sound great with ease and they really suit my style of working.

I do not and would not use Waves plug-ins as a matter of principal - their pricing, in my opinion, is corrupt.

Bob

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This is incredibly biased. UAD do have good plugins but their DSP platform puts severe limitations on their usage. The new Waves plugins are very good, as are Sonalksis, Sonnox, Abbey Road, SPL and plenty more...

Can't see anything biased in his post, other than he loves the UAD plugins and finds them great, and doesn't like Waves for his own reasons. I personally agree with his UAD opinion, and I own and use a bunch of Waves stuff that I really like.

I'm less keen on their more modern plugins, personally - I often find the gui's clunky and awkward to use (often to the point of unusability, eg I find on their API plugins it's almost impossible to turn the knobs with the mouse!) , and in cases where the products overlap I tend to prefer the UAD versions.

However, there are some spectacularly good Waves plugins too, as there also are from other companies. UA have much more (native) competition these days than they did back in the early/mid 2000's

Not trying to derail the thread at all, simply stating that I personally prefer UAD for my own purposes and the way I work, which directly responds to the OPs original question about third party plugs. But he mentioned Waves and I have an opinion on that too!

If considering purchasing third party plugs, it's important to be aware of all cost implications involved, so it's reasonable to debate such issues. An example being that UAD is more costly up-front, in terms of buying a card, and, it would appear, in terms of purchasing individual plug-ins, following which there are no upgrade costs, compared to other companies where you need to pay for upgrades.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote johnny h:

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Quote Bob Bickerton:

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I use Logic but almost exclusively use UAD plug-ins and they are utterly worth while!

Not only do they sound great, I can get them to sound great with ease and they really suit my style of working.

I do not and would not use Waves plug-ins as a matter of principal - their pricing, in my opinion, is corrupt.

Bob

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This is incredibly biased. UAD do have good plugins but their DSP platform puts severe limitations on their usage. The new Waves plugins are very good, as are Sonalksis, Sonnox, Abbey Road, SPL and plenty more...

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Yes, opinions do tend to be biased! Mine are, however, based on personal experience - end of story.

Oh, and I've never had DSP limitations with my Quad card - hope you're not being biased in making such a claim

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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Yes, opinions do tend to be biased! Mine are, however, based on personal experience - end of story.

Oh, and I've never had DSP limitations with my Quad card - hope you're not being biased in making such a claim

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Well, you are the only making the claim, not me!

UAD work ok for some, but for anyone with an i7 i'd say the writing is on the wall for DSP cards... How many Manley plugins can you run on a card? One? So for the quad you can just run four ? You can say the sound quality is good, and it probably is, but there is nothing stopping native matching or exceeding that quality and allowing you to run it on as many channels as you want!

Quote johnny h:

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You can say the sound quality is good, and it probably is, but there is nothing stopping native matching or exceeding that quality and allowing you to run it on as many channels as you want!

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Using UAD cards and plugins does not preclude you from *also* running native plugins in your projects. You don't have to try and do everything with a UAD card - it's just you have additional flavour options open to you...

Quote johnny h:

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UAD work ok for some, but for anyone with an i7 i'd say the writing is on the wall for DSP cards..

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Yes the DSP is limited but it is sufficient for my purposes. It is of course a glorified dongle - which works very well!

Quote johnny h:

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How many Manley plugins can you run on a card? One? So for the quad you can just run four ?

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Correct - but I use it as a mastering EQ - how many mastering busses do you run at a time?

Quote johnny h:

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You can say the sound quality is good, and it probably is,

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'Probably' implies you aren't familiar with UAD

Quote johnny h:

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but there is nothing stopping native matching or exceeding that quality and allowing you to run it on as many channels as you want!

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Of course, but I'm talking about my own direct experience with third party plug-ins as opposed to native DAW - for all I know Reaper plugs may exceed anything else in the universe!

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

When is someone going to inject Mac v. PC into this conversation?

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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Quote johnny h:

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UAD work ok for some, but for anyone with an i7 i'd say the writing is on the wall for DSP cards..

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Yes the DSP is limited but it is sufficient for my purposes. It is of course a glorified dongle - which works very well!

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Not as well as native plugins, which you can easily run on every channel, even on a laptop.

johnny h Quote:

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Quote johnny h:

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How many Manley plugins can you run on a card? One? So for the quad you can just run four ?

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Correct - but I use it as a mastering EQ - how many mastering busses do you run at a time?

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None, my music gets professionally mastered.

I buy plugins which I have complete freedom in using, and that don't rely on a couple of archaic 20 dollar sharc chips sold back to me for 1500 euros.

I think we're way off topic here. Apologies.

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Don't apologise Bob - you're not the one steering the thread into the abyss.....

For the OP - what sort of budget have you got to play with? That makes quite some difference to what your options are - if you're ready to spend cash right now, there are several great deals floating around from respected companies. Softube slashed their prices very recently - they make some wonderful hardware emulations and 'character' plugs that get a lot of love from all quarters. Sonalkiss are having a 35% off sale right now, and Waves seem to be on permanent 50% off discount. I've found that the biggest discounts can usually be found buying not from the developer themselves, but online stores like audiodeluxe.com or highprofileaudio.com. My view is that the 'vanilla' plugs that come with all DAWs these days are usually fine for everyday use, and often it's only worth shopping around for 3rd party plugs when you're looking for software that's going to add real character or functionality that you can't find ( or create easily yourself) elsewhere.

In my case that was stuff like UAD's Studer tape and EMT 140 emus, and their Little Lab IBP port. Likewise the Waves stereo-surround up mix plug and CLA signature plugs - all things that either enhance workflow or offer an end result that's difficult to achieve via other solutions. Maybe it's worth starting by asking yourself the question 'what do I want to do that my current plugs won't allow?' and progress from there. Just do a lot of demoing and then cherry pick the good stuff that will really make a difference to your projects.

Quote ronmac:

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When is someone going to inject Mac v. PC into this conversation?

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Surely, there's some mileage left in discussing illegal downloads

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www.thediplomatz.com

I don't know Reapers plugins but I almost never select a Nuendo stock plug in. Plug ins over the last 3 years are simply astonishing, they cannot emulate hardware exactly quite yet. (arguably impossible to ever manage this) However they are not far off at all and they have huge advantages and sometimes actually sound better, yes shock horror !! (no noise, do not affect stereo image as much, sometimes you want an eq to enhance the image and sometimes not etc.) All about knowing the analogue and digital chain and selecting what one feels is appropriate for a desired goal.

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
stem mastering

I've got SSL Duende (all but the xreverb) they're very nice. Also have Waves Musician 1 and Tony Maserati collection. Supertap is used the most out of all my waves stuff.
Though I'm annoyed by their complete lack of doing anything about 64bit DAWs so I'd say stay away from them, currently.

What do need for the SSL Duende bundle to use in Reaper? iLok?

SSL have their own dongle, if you feel you need to move between computers, or there's a bit of licensing software if you just use the 1 computer (though you can only move the plugins 3 times, so if you're a frequent computer rebuilder you'll want the dongle)

Fabfilter,PSP and Camel Audio all make some fantastic plug-ins.


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10% discount off FabFilter plug-ins for new customers pm me for details.

The UAD v Waves is tiresome to say at the least....

Also Reaper has a excellent bundle of plugins, that are probably some of the best for any DAW....

When it comes to buying plugins I'd advocate only getting ones which ones are needed, I myself anyway have found having fewer plugins to be more beneficial than having lots.

Right now I've pretty much reduced everything down to PSP ones; with Old Timer (for Compression), and sQuad for EQ. They might not give the extra 1 or 2 % of some more expensive choices but I find them really, really easy to use which I find to be one of the most important things.

Softube also make some great plugins and also for something a little more esoteric Soundtoys have some excellent plugins.

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http://soundcloud.com/earwighoney

I too like the plugs in Reaper (and I speak as one who has all sorts of plugs and hardware!)

Failing that, try iZotope! Truly remarkable stuff, but does not smack you in the face. It kind of creeps up on you, rather like good hardware.

Quote caveman82:

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Right now I've pretty much reduced everything down to PSP ones; with Old Timer (for Compression), and sQuad for EQ. They might not give the extra 1 or 2 % of some more expensive choices but I find them really, really easy to use which I find to be one of the most important things.

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PSP Old Timer is very good.If you haven't already try PSPNobleQ as well it's excellent.

For saturation and distortion the new Fabfilter Saturn has raised the bar.



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10% discount off FabFilter plug-ins for new customers pm me for details.