Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a way of generating a 3rd and 5th harmony for a vocal line (within Cubase 5 or using 3rd party software)

They do not have to be very realistic as I will only be using them as a reference for the actual real voice harmonies?

Since it doesn't have to sound great, you can copy your vocal track, then use Vari-Audio to drag the notes up/down to the harmony position. Disadvantage: it will sound a little funky because the formants don't get handled well - maybe not a problem given your stated use as a guide vocal. Advantage - it's free!

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Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

That would mean having a good knowledge of actual harmony which I dont have!

I really need something that will tell me what the actaul harmony notes are!

Perhaps you should do some research then?

knowing how harmonization works translates to more than just vocal melodies, it covers everything that can produce a note.

It would be fairly easy to learn how major and minor scales work. Or if you're not confident on learning any theory just find out what scale your music is in then use that scale to experiment with harmonizing.

Quote TM19:

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That would mean having a good knowledge of actual harmony which I dont have!

I really need something that will tell me what the actaul harmony notes are!

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Ah, then maybe something like this: http://www.tc-helicon.com/products/voiceworks/ . I have a TC Helicon box (different one), can vouch for the quality of mine, and they have a good rep.

Probably some freeware out there too?

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Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

Quote TM19:

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That would mean having a good knowledge of actual harmony which I dont have!

I really need something that will tell me what the actaul harmony notes are!

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It would take you a couple of hours to grasp the basic concepts of scales and chords - time well spent. Without such basic knowledge you'll always struggle and be a slave to what a piece of software tells you is 'right' - and with harmonies 'right' isn't always 'best'!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Agree w/ The Elf 100%. It does take some work, but it is so worth it.

Here is a link to software that generates harmonies for you. http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Audio/Harmony-Engine-Evo.shtml . It has a free trial period, during which you can see if you want to buy it, and of course study how it generates harmonies so you can learn to do your own. I've never used it, I'm sure there are probably many out there to choose from (I couldn't exactly find a free one to choose from).

Then, listen to your favorite vocal band who sing harmonies, and try to match them!

If you know the Beatles, there is a book called the Complete Beatles which has all their melody and harmony lines. You can listen to the songs with the book out and learn to write the harmonies you're hearing. It's magic!

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Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

i used to learn bonjovi harmony from their scorebook,try to harmonise them into chords=1,3,5
this link is helpful
http://www.ehow.com/how_12103966_harmonize-background-vocals.html

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Edited by kennytan (19/03/12 03:17 AM)

Not disagreeing about the worthwhile nature of harmony theory, but it is very easy to teach yourself to extemporise harmony. Extemporised harmony is commonplace in folk clubs (at least the better singing ones) where every chorus is greeted as a chance to harmonise by half the audience and the effect can be (not always, admittedly) glorious.

Basically I taught myself by singing along to Beatles songs while driving along motorways and such in the car. They are very usable for this purpose becaus a) if you're of my generation then you've learned the words of every one by osmosis; and b) they are very easy and satisfying to harmonise. You'll make lots and lots of dischords at first, but that doesn't matter because there's no one else in the car to hear you, and you'll be surprised how quickly the skill comes. Like riding a bike, once you've got the knack it's with you for life, and it can come in very useful.

I learned before I learned the theory, so one is not necessarily dependent on the other, but once I learned the theory I could see why I was doing what I was doing, and hence able to theorise my way through some tricky harmonies that weren't amenable to extemporisation. It's really nice to have both at your command.

CC

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Putting the fun back into dysfunctional.
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MMultiBandHarmonizer might do the trick
MMultiBandHarmonizer

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Interesting that this has come up as I've been looking into the subject for a friend of mine - she's a female vocalist who has just been bought Boss VE-20 floor box which has as harmoniser built in alongside reverbs, delays etc.

She's not getting on with it very well TBH. I've got a theory on 'why' and it's to do with the fact that she's a big Abba fan. Excuse me if my musical theory is ropey here (it's not my stongest subject and I'd be delighted for any folks here to put me straight) but here is what I think is happening.

With this little box you just tell it what key you are in and then tell it which intervals you want to pitch. You can also pan these and of course set their levels.

So you tell it you're in D Major and that you want it to give you a 3rd and a 5th. All is well and good. Until you sing an E. Now in D Major, an E would be sung over an E Minor chord, so the pitch shifter will give you a flat third and a fifth. No worries.

Except for the fact that Abba decide on a few of their songs that they will use a Major Second as opposed to the E Minor that you'd expect to be there.... So there's an E Major chord in the music that (as far of the harmoniser is concerned) 'shouldn't' be there. So the 3rd that it pitches is 'wrong' compared to the 3rd that is playing in the background and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

The solution here is just to pitch a 5th but that's a bit of a shame really. What can you do when Swedish 70's pop bands like major chords so much?

Feel free to shoot down my theory in flames as I've told her the solution is not to use it with those songs unless she can live with just a 5th - on a fairly simple unit like this one I can't see a way of getting around it but it'd be lovely if anyone can enlighten me as to the error of my ways

I haven't analysed your post carefully , but the gist is quite correct that the 'right' harmony isn't always the one a musician would choose. I'll often choose a second, or hold onto a 'wrong' suspension for reasons of making harmonies sound subjectively 'right'. Harmonies that slavishly parallel the melody line note-for-note can sound obvious and irritating.

I seem to have said this a lot lately, but if you learn the rules then you better know how to break them.

And the other posts above made me chuckle! I too cut my harmony teeth making up my own harmonies listening to songs in the car. And still do, in fact!

In fact there are a number of songs that I've hammered so much that they sound 'wrong' without my harmonies!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Thanks for this

I love a decent vocal harmony, but by that I mean one that is sung by another singer (or the same singer and worked into the mix). Harmony boxes and effects just don't do it for me unless used 'as an effect'.... When used on a live vocal I personally don't really like it but quite accept the 'different strokes' element of personal taste I'm with you in the 'irritating' thing when it's too 'perfect' as that's all the machine can do.

And, from a theory point of view, it's been good for me to look at the Abba stuff and see how often they break the rules. Love them or loath them, it can't be denied that they did a wealth of pop music that is still well-loved by many today and it's good to see examples of how tearing up the rule book in the right places can pay huge dividends.

I like Abba, don't love or hate them!

But I do love harmonies, especially rule breakers. Can someone post a youtube link to a rule-breaking Abba harmony please?

Thanks!

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Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1

I can't give such an example with the Abba in terms of the harmony as the songs I'm thinking about don't exactly do this.... What I'm getting at is an issue it'll give with a harmoniser box.

Waterloo is in D Major. So you'd expect the II chord to be Em. It isn't. It's E Major. In that song (if we're playing it right ) there isn't a minor chor at all until you get to the bridge..... They seemed to like to keep the melody in sunny shades of major but then put in lyrics that were heart rending, kind of hidden behind a smile. I'm not a fan but I do like the way they did that....

So that was what I meant by the 'wrong' harmony.... Abba themselves are not singing the wrong harmony in Waterloo, they are singing thr right harmony to the 'wrong' chord (not really a wrong chord but you know what I mean!). The harmoniser box will do the wrong harmony to it as it is 'expecting' a different chord in the II position to the one that Abba actually chose to use.

If you love a decent vocal harmony, YouTube 'the Civil Wars'. 'I've got this friend' is a good starting point. I saw them live last week and the harmonies were just sublime. The music is dead simple but the harmonies are to die for.

Quote Gary_W:

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Waterloo is in D Major. So you'd expect the II chord to be Em. It isn't. It's E Major. In that song (if we're playing it right ) there isn't a minor chor at all until you get to the bridge..... They seemed to like to keep the melody in sunny shades of major but then put in lyrics that were heart rending, kind of hidden behind a smile. I'm not a fan but I do like the way they did that....

So that was what I meant by the 'wrong' harmony.... Abba themselves are not singing the wrong harmony in Waterloo, they are singing thr right harmony to the 'wrong' chord (not really a wrong chord but you know what I mean!). The harmoniser box will do the wrong harmony to it as it is 'expecting' a different chord in the II position to the one that Abba actually chose to use.

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I follow you exactly! Any song with a key change would have the same issue. Some of the boxes are programmable, where you can tell it to "change keys" at a certain point. I would think that could be a lot of programming to do for all but the simplest songs, and then to remember to send a signal to change while putting your heart into singing seems quite demanding. I suppose with a song where only the middle eight changes key it might not be too hard, but that ABBA song (sounds like the first chords of Sgt. Pepper too) would be harder to program and perform with a harmony box, if you're doing it live!
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Quote Gary_W:

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...If you love a decent vocal harmony, YouTube 'the Civil Wars'. 'I've got this friend' is a good starting point. I saw them live last week and the harmonies were just sublime. The music is dead simple but the harmonies are to die for.

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Nice voice matching! I'm no musicologist, but it seems that the best harmonizers seem to have very different voices, and the gravelly low voice/pure high voice seems like a good combination (The Civil Wars, Lennon-McCartney, Everly Bros). Maybe that's why I don't get excited listening to the Beach Boys harmonies - they are excellent and complex, but the lower harmony voice just sounds "normal" to me.



Here's a group, called "X", who have harmonies that I've never really figured out why they sound the way they do ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGHXpj9LXZM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9lCSvvKw-8&feature=related

But I like it!

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Alexis -Cubase 6.5.0/SX3.1.1.944, XP SP2, 4GB RAM (1GB not accessible, but used just to balance the computer so it doesn't tip over); Delta 66 in Omni i/O Studio; Motif8; UAD-1