having for the longest time been planning on going iMac (because of the greater choice of interface upgrades, thanks to several mfrs refusing to do Windows drivers) i have been tempted back to the Windows side by the better value for money of Scan's audio PCs... not least because i could then hold off and by a UA Apollo in the summer when they release W7 drivers with the cash saved. however, i'm undecided on exactly what spec i should go for, although i'm veering toward the SA68 rackdaw. so these are questions for Pete and his excellent compatriots really, but if anyone else wants to chip in that would be great.

if i go for an SSD system drive, and i put all my applications on there, then this will improve the speed of booting the PC and loading applications, yes? but unless i put my sound libraries on there i won't see any difference with these, right? also, is it even recommended to put libraries on an SSD - there's a limited lifetime of read/write cycles, isn't there, so would constantly reading samples use that up rather quickly?

additionally, some of the 3XS models offer an SSD cache drive. i'm not really sure what this is for or how it could improve performance for me. i mainly work "in the box" with VSTis and audio; when recording it's generally only one or two tracks at a time, so no whole band set ups or complicated foldback scenarios. can you even have two SSDs as well as the two HDDs i was hoping to put in?

lastly, *very* silly question... i'd want to use two monitors, but all the graphics card options only appear to have one of each socket type (so one DVI, one HDMI, etc.). how are you meant to set this up?

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

Quote onesecondglance:

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if i go for an SSD system drive, and i put all my applications on there, then this will improve the speed of booting the PC and loading applications, yes?

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Yes,

Quote onesecondglance:

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but unless i put my sound libraries on there i won't see any difference with these, right?

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Yes,

Quote onesecondglance:

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also, is it even recommended to put libraries on an SSD - there's a limited lifetime of read/write cycles, isn't there, so would constantly reading samples use that up rather quickly?

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Well, you have a limited number of writes rather than reads (which have no effect) so sample playback usage is almost ideal due to the limited number of writes as opposed to the heavy use of reads.

Of course the downside with that is that setting up a machine with enough drive space for your average EastWest or Kontackt collection would end up being a costly business.

As far as the write issue goes, it's not really much of an issue these days. The OS now has TRIM support which allows the drives to self manage their write cycles, ensuring that the drive will only try and write to the sectors that are least used in an attempt to ensure even usage across the drive during it's lifetime and to reduce early failure. Even drives with heavy usage profiles are now expected to last 3 - 5 years which is as long as your typical mechanical drive and if your not writting that frequently to your SSD it may even last longer due to the lack of mechanical parts to fail, althrough the tech is still too new for us to know just how long in total.

Quote onesecondglance:

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additionally, some of the 3XS models offer an SSD cache drive. i'm not really sure what this is for or how it could improve performance for me.

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It's a fairly new feature only available in certain configurations. It allows you to use a SSD to cache the more frequent used data on a harddrive.

So for instance we put in a 60GB SSD in front of the sample drive. Each time you start a project it will cache any data on the sample drive that you access for that project it will cache that data to the SSD, so next time you come back to that project it will load from the SSD rather than the harddrive so hopefully speed it all up for you. It'll keep cacheing new data until you reach the limit of the SSD and then it'll start to replace the least used/oldest data with new data as it's being accessed. Whilst not as fast as a pure SSD solution it will give you increased performance when working with your current projects.

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can you even have two SSDs as well as the two HDDs i was hoping to put in?

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Sure, if you ordering online you can select the number of drives by the drop down, otherwise place your order by phone and specify exactly what you want and the guys will arrange it for you.

Quote onesecondglance:

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lastly, *very* silly question... i'd want to use two monitors, but all the graphics card options only appear to have one of each socket type (so one DVI, one HDMI, etc.). how are you meant to set this up?

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Each card will have 1 of each but any two can be used at anytime. Most monitors normally have more than 1 input (not all, but the vast majority) so one may have DVI and D-sub or hdmi so normally you can get away with mixing and matching depending upon what screens you have already.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

thanks Pete, great to hear from you. so, in your opinion, if i had my sample library on an SSD system drive, would i get much benefit from an SSD cache drive?

also - will the sales guys (or you!) be able to recommend a display for me from the choice there? obviously i want the best value for money but screen specs mean little to me...

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

Quote onesecondglance:

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So, in your opinion, if i had my sample library on an SSD system drive, would i get much benefit from an SSD cache drive?

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Not in that instance because you can't catche a SSD with an SSD...well you could, but it'd be slower due to overhead. Your only catche'in the data on the mechanical drive, and whilst that doesn't have to be sample related (it can be anything you want) it's just the most likely for an audio user.

How big is your sample library? If it's only small, it'd make sense but most people have collections that far outweigh the performance to cost ratio that would normally make it attractive.

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also - will the sales guys (or you!) be able to recommend a display for me from the choice there? obviously i want the best value for money but screen specs mean little to me...

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Some of them maybe more knowledgable than myself with the screens, so always worth you asking but sometimes it comes down to personal preference. I notice you can pick up a Dell IPS for about £180 now (23") which is phenomenal price for a IPS based screen. You can of course pick up bigger for less if you want to remain with a traditional LCD which unless your doing a lot of photoshop / video work is probably better and will probably cost you £30/£40 less (Samsung or Iilyama perhaps).

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

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How big is your sample library? If it's only small, it'd make sense but most people have collections that far outweigh the performance to cost ratio that would normally make it attractive.

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i reckon i have less than 75 gig of samples - i use Kontakt and that's about it - so i was figuring a 240 gig SSD should cover the OS, all my apps, and that with room for some expansion in future. i can't see myself going to a much larger library like Komplete or VSL in the near future. i have no idea how much space W7 takes up so it may be that a 120 gig drive would do, although if i did choose to get new library stuff i might be running short of space.

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

Quote onesecondglance:

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i reckon i have less than 75 gig of samples - i use Kontakt and that's about it - so i was figuring a 240 gig SSD should cover the OS, all my apps, and that with room for some expansion in future. i can't see myself going to a much larger library like Komplete or VSL in the near future. i have no idea how much space W7 takes up so it may be that a 120 gig drive would do, although if i did choose to get new library stuff i might be running short of space.

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I've got a fairly clean OS in front of me and it's around 25GB with the latest updates and drivers installed. It was Kontact/EW/VSL I was wondering about, as I think my Komplete install eats up far more than a 240GB currently without anything else coming into it.

Space management/usage is always up to the indvidual user really, so only you really know how you may head regarding new purchases and sound packs in the future. Given your current requirements the is no real reason why you couldn't or shouldn't proceed as you describe if your not planning on making any huge purchases anytime soon.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Pete Kaine:

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Quote onesecondglance:

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lastly, *very* silly question... i'd want to use two monitors, but all the graphics card options only appear to have one of each socket type (so one DVI, one HDMI, etc.). how are you meant to set this up?

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Each card will have 1 of each but any two can be used at anytime. Most monitors normally have more than 1 input (not all, but the vast majority) so one may have DVI and D-sub or hdmi so normally you can get away with mixing and matching depending upon what screens you have already.

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If you have two monitors side-by-side, one fed analogue and one digital, you WILL notice the difference in clarity and it WILL annoy you! Use DVI and HDMI, not DVI and SVGA. A simple adapter cable will turn HDMI into DVI. (Get a cable, not an adapter. The adapters are typically too big to fit next to a DVI plug on the same video card.)

thanks guys - very useful advice. now to see if i can bring myself to part with all that money!

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

I have a Scan system with a SSD cache on the sample drive and it works great. Sample-heavy projects load very quickly.

Also I'm using DVI / D-Sub outputs on my monitors side by side and it doesn't bother me in the slightest!

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clicky

i went for two SSDs in the end - one 64GB system drive and another 128GB drive for samples. it came in a touch cheaper than the 240GB drive as well.

according to the (helpful and friendly) sales guy the graphics card can't output on both the DVI and HDMI at the same time (for some reason) so i'd have to use D-Sub for one monitor. tbh i'm just going to let the Scan fella put it all together using whatever damn cable he fancies and i'll tell him if i see a difference between the screens! :P

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

At the risk of making one of our sales guys sound wrong, if you went for the evga g210 card (standard on most systems) then it definatly can output both on the hdmi and dvi at the same time as i'm running two of them in that config to power four monitors. They will only run two out of the three connectors at the same time though.

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www.theautobots.com / www.scan.co.uk

'tis indeed that one - good news and cheers all round then

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

Quote onesecondglance:

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according to the (helpful and friendly) sales guy the graphics card can't output on both the DVI and HDMI at the same time (for some reason) so i'd have to use D-Sub for one monitor. tbh i'm just going to let the Scan fella put it all together using whatever damn cable he fancies and i'll tell him if i see a difference between the screens! :P

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Mine can, and is doing so now in front of me! GeForce 210. Chosen for quietness (no fan) rather than gaming performance. Dirt cheap - about £25 I think. Plus a few quid for an adapter cable - as stated, a simple adapter wouldn't fit physically.

Apologies to crash this thread.

Regarding SSD Cache drives. If I wanted to install a Cache drive into my current system do I have to purchase a specific SSD cache drive or is any SSD capable?

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Amazing take, spot on, just perfect....right....one more time.

Depends on your board. If you have a Intel based chipset on your board from the last two generations it may have the ability to set it up via the Intel RST drivers and a change in the bios and then you can just use any SSD of your choice (upto 64GB).

Otherwise you can do it via a use of a SSD with the dataplex software that the special ssd packs ship with. Each firm has a model dedicated to doing this (Corsair Acclerator series, Sandisk Readycache, Ocz Synapse, Crucial Adrenaline... you get the idea) so have a look around and check some reviews to see what you can expect from them.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Thanks Pete,

My Board is a Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 (rev. 1.0)Intel® X58 + ICH10R Chipset. So looks like I can use any 60GB SSD. I intend to use this in front of my sample drive so will read up a little more and upgrade my system. Thanks for your help.


Matt

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Amazing take, spot on, just perfect....right....one more time.

Ahh sorry, no you can't.

The ability to SSD cache was added in the generation after your motherboard I'm afraid.

You can still do it in software by using one of the drives that uses dataplex to set it up.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog