Full Story from Cnet Here

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half the computers infected with malware designed to steal personal information are in the U.S.

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As CNET blogger Topher Kessler explains, simply visiting a malicious Web site containing Flashback on an OS X system with Java installed will result in one of two installation routes. The malware will request an administrator password, and if one is supplied, it will install its package of code into the Applications folder. If a password is not offered, the malware will install to the user accounts where it can run in a more global manner.

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Instructions for Detection and removal here

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www.dragonlogos.co.uk

Thanks. Most useful.

CC

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Putting the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

At least you can remove that one. The new one I discuss here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=980058& page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1#980058

Has no resolution other than full reinstall.

I did see that one, it really looks like some groups is targeting MACs - difficult to say what measures to take other than keep up-to=date with news stories etc - If its only tracking passwords and stuff its very small data, also it seems to be more MACs in the USA

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www.dragonlogos.co.uk

I know it's bad form, and I apologise in advance... but as a PC user can I just say: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

Sorry /coat

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Yes, Id say it was bad form, except ...

Some time back as a Mac (as well as PC) user I advocated installing anti-virus software on Macs and got roundly and loudly told off by those that believe that Macs are charmed and cannot ever be infected by anything. So, I'm going to join you: ha ha ha ha ha!

CC

PS it's interesting that this malware uninstalls itself if it detects the presence of anti-virus software.

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Putting the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

it's not a virus, it's a trojan, anti virus software wouldn't do anything.

It uninstalls if you have little snitch - which is not anti virus software, but an internet monitor.

Edited by fletcher (05/04/12 10:27 AM)

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On execution, the malware checks if the following path exists in the system:

/Library/Little Snitch
/Developer/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/MacOS/Xcode
/Applications/VirusBarrier X6.app
/Applications/iAntiVirus/iAntiVirus.app
/Applications/avast!.app
/Applications/ClamXav.app
/Applications/HTTPScoop.app
/Applications/Packet Peeper.app

If any of these are found, the malware will skip the rest of its routine and proceed to delete itself.

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[sarcasm] It's a strange thing about anti-virus software but it seems to check for trojans too. You'd think with a name like anti-virus software they wouldn't bother. [/sarcasm]

Anti-virus would remove a trojen during a scan. A decent one might even reconigze the trojans code and stop it being installed in the first place. Apples been advising antivirus being installed for years so that should say something about the situation.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

fair enough CC I missed that.

It's just that on the apple discussion boards they say that the virus program wouldn't work here, and that it's not a recommended way to clean the system of this malware and you can't be sure it would be removed.

this is an older trojan anyway with a clean up method available, see the other thread for the newer trojan which has no fix it seems except re-install.

Maybe we will need to follow your advice about anti-virus software in the future, however the main thing seems to be to turn off Java in the preferences - of course not much good if it's already in. Lion comes with Java off as default, I just wish apple had warned us a bit louder to turn it off in the older systems as well.

By the way I'm still clean - no anti virus yet either

Edited by fletcher (05/04/12 11:37 AM)

Quote fletcher:

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it's not a virus, it's a trojan, anti virus software wouldn't do anything.

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Any decent anti-virus software (on a Mac or a PC) will detect and deal with trojans when they arrive, and certainly when a system scan is perfomed.

hugh


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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I know it's bad form, and I apologise in advance... but as a PC user can I just say: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

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But Hugh, only numpties would install it....

Which would make all PC users ....

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

Just a reminder that Sophos provide free and good quality anti-virus (and anti-trojan ) software for Macs here.

CC

Edit: Here is a discussion on the Sophos forums on setting up SAV for use on a Mac used for audio recording.

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Putting the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Edited by ConcertinaChap (05/04/12 02:30 PM)

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I know it's bad form, and I apologise in advance... but as a PC user can I just say: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

Sorry /coat

hugh

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Christ, do you ever give it a rest Hugh? For an admin, and established member of the SoS team, you sure can be a prat.

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Paul

Gone out and forgotten your sense of humour again?

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote ~Paul:

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Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I know it's bad form, and I apologise in advance... but as a PC user can I just say: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

Sorry /coat

hugh

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Christ, do you ever give it a rest Hugh? For an admin, and established member of the SoS team, you sure can be a prat.

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Hugh does not need me or anyone else to stand up for him, but his post WAS funny.
And when the inevitable Mac vs PC wars break out again, there'll be much worse than this!

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Cubase, guitars.

Hugh was only joking I'm sure

I have decided not to install any anti virus software, even though my son's computer had the trojan. I have decided to just turn off Java and tell my son to be more careful with Adobe updates - you can always install upgrades by running Adobe itself if your not sure of the prompt. I think he most likely became a victim this way (Facebook etc. not really concentrating and installed the fake Adobe Flash upgrade) with the original variant. This was the smart one which erased itself if littlesnitch or (ahem) antivirus software was detected. This is the one which can be removed using Terminal as described, seems to work. As he didn't have any software to detect it I think he had it for awhile, but one of the symptoms he had noticed recently (last week or so) was Safari crashing strangely. Which is what is reported to happen, increasing instability leading to crashes. He's on Snow and I only mention this in case anyone else has seen Safari crash recently, you might be infected.

The new version is it seems both more sneeky and less sophisticated. It gets in via Java and can install without your knowing even if you don't stupidly type your password. However without Java and Flash neither variant could have got in! It installs whether or not you have little snitch (why I say less sophisticated) and that is how it was spotted, little snitch snitched on it.

The other thread has a link to the apple discussion where it was first picked up. If you go to the beginning it is quite interesting to see the apple community slowly wake up to the problem. I'm sure though there wouldn't even be a discussion on a PC site about a windows malware threat, no news there, how many thousand malware threats have been seen on PC's in the same time frame? It says a lot that one trojan for macs has caused so much discussion.

Still I guess if macs continue to grow in popularity there will inevitably be a time when we lose our peace of mind and have to install anti-virus. Not yet though, but watch this space!

Quote fletcher:

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Hugh was only joking I'm sure

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Quite so... and there were two blatent indicators in the post to make that quite clear. perhaps the ~prat trojan has got into Paul's computer...

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Gone out and forgoten your sense of humour again?

hugh

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Fortunately Hugh, there are still some of us left that set the bar for humour higher than floor level.
If it wasn't for the fact you make an appearance in Apple threads quite so frequently to drop your rancid brain farts, then yes we could shrug it off as a bit of humour. If that is, it hadn't already worn thin months ago.
I just don't see why or how you go from being more than respectable in every post around here, until it gets to an Apple post, where you'll suddenly morph into a bigoted prat.

Sorry

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Paul

Quote ~Paul:

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there are still some of us left that set the bar for humour higher than floor level.

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In which case you must find my personal humour threshold to be positively subterranean.

Quote:

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you go from being more than respectable in every post around here, until it gets to an Apple post, where you'll suddenly morph into a bigoted prat.

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"When in Rome..."

See?

More seriously, it's inevitable that as Apple's market share grows that their OS will be targeted more. Windows was/is a popular target because it was/remains the dominant OS. iOS and Android also look like prime targets now.

Quote ~Paul:

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bigoted prat. Sorry

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T'internet has made "sorry" such a barbed remark the next version of this BB will probably asterisk it out.

I wonder what computers people have that are internet facing, how important they are, and how well protected.

My DAW hasn't seen a network connection since it was installed 4 years ago. It ain't broke and I've no intention of letting it get 'fixed'.

My netbook (which I use for work) goes online just occasionally via a firewalled router (wireless is switched off) to check for updates otherwise it too is blind to the 'net.

My general purpose one (that I'm typing this on) still goes via a firewalled router but otherwise goes just about everywhere. However, I use an e-mail client that's configured to only display plain text, run nothing, and ask before saving anything. My browser is Firefox, and I have NoScript, AddBlock and Ghostery configured pretty aggressively. For all of that if somehow it was to crash and burn I wouldn't regard it as a major disaster.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote ~Paul:

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If it wasn't for the fact you make an appearance in Apple threads quite so frequently....

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I don't know if you've changed the medication recently, but your hallucinations are definitely getting worse, along with your manners. The mac forum is demonstrably one where I contribute least. As for the rest, personal abuse of the kind you have levelled so needlessly at me will not be tolerated. If my sense of humour has offended you I apologise without hesitation, of course.

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote ~Paul:

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Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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Gone out and forgoten your sense of humour again?

hugh

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Fortunately Hugh, there are still some of us left that set the bar for humour higher than floor level.
If it wasn't for the fact you make an appearance in Apple threads quite so frequently to drop your rancid brain farts, then yes we could shrug it off as a bit of humour. If that is, it hadn't already worn thin months ago.
I just don't see why or how you go from being more than respectable in every post around here, until it gets to an Apple post, where you'll suddenly morph into a bigoted prat.

Sorry

---

You forgot /coat so that we'd all know you were joking.

Seriously, despite whichever platform we use, I don't think people infected will find it in the least funny; and I'm not sure it serves Hugh well to be laughing - even in jest - at the misfortune of others.

Regardless of intent (and I'm sure it was a little joke, and not just schadenfreude), this is the internet. You know - the internet? If there is to be a standard, then the admins should uphold it. It's bad form for a forum which purports to help its users if they are perceived to be laughing at them instead.

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Second in a one horse race...

Quote fletcher:

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I have decided not to install any anti virus software, even though my son's computer had the trojan.

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Well, best of luck. You might be alright, long term. Personally I reckon the time to sort your protection out is before you get burned, not after - I speak from painful experience here. But you're grown up, you can make your own decisions.

Think I'll quit this discussion here. On top of everything else it has got quite unnecessarily acrimonious, but then it always does, doesn't it? Sad.

CC

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Putting the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote:

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I don't think people infected will find it in the least funny; and I'm not sure it serves Hugh well to be laughing - even in jest - at the misfortune of others.

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I take your point, dmac, and I do sympathise with those who have suffered this problem. I presume with only 20-odd posts to your name you are relatively new to these forums so perhaps you are unaware of the years of friendly (and sometimes gloating) comments on these forums about the mac freedom of virus and Trojan attacks. I was making a lighthearted dig amongst friends of like mind, and clearly flagged it as such. Appropriate advice on dealing with the problem had already been given.

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Questionable behaviour by mods has hurt this forum before, but, hey, perhaps it doesn't matter. Perhaps, on the internet, nothing matters.

... well I'm with Hugh - we've all been a little too smug for a little too long.

I pulled AV on my non-work macs, set a root password and log in as a standard user. I'm still happy with that decision. But obviously I'm now going to be a little more careful still...

Anyway, AFAIR OS X ships with some anti-malware routines and gets updated - on the quiet - with something like the Windows Malicious Software Remover. No comfort if you're a Virus/Trojan early adopter of course

Steve

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arK music

I have to say, I thought Hugh's comment was hilarious. In fact, I had to call NHS Direct as I thought for a second my sides had split.

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I take your point, dmac, and I do sympathise with those who have suffered this problem. I presume with only 20-odd posts to your name you are relatively new to these forums so perhaps you are unaware of the years of friendly (and sometimes gloating) comments on these forums about the mac freedom of virus and Trojan attacks. I was making a lighthearted dig amongst friends of like mind, and clearly flagged it as such. Appropriate advice on dealing with the problem had already been given.

Hugh

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Hi Hugh

Thanks for taking time to reply.

I admit that I'm pretty much a passive member of these forums, but if you look at my avatar details, it seems I've been here longer than you. Please don't think that I mean that in any confrontational way - I'm merely demonstrating that, though I don't post often, I am here, and have been for some years.

In my experience - through the magazine contributions, forum postings, and personally when you taught on my 'A' and led my 'Q' courses some twenty years ago - you are someone always willing to help: to educate, to inform and to entertain. That is a great thing to be, and I applaud you for it; so my point is that I think it hurts how you are perceived if you are seen to be laughing at those who have come here for help.

I think that the point that you think I don't "get it" because I might be new here is spurious a best, and all the more alarming because aren't those new people the ones who need most help? The ones who may be future subscribers to the site and to the magazine? What will a new user's perception be if they find that the admins taunt the existing users? They are not aware of the long-term relationship you describe and, reading it back, it doesn't seem entirely clear to me that you were joking, /coat notwithstanding.

Among the community of helpful people contributing to this site, there are many users whose posts infuriate and annoy me because they are irrelevant, contradictory, ire-charged, uninformed or just plain trolling. I do not comment on those posts because they are site users and, as I've said previously, this is the internet. This kind of stuff is part and parcel of that and you have to dig through a lot of dirt to get to diamonds. I believe it is the administrator's job to deem what is appropriate, and if I don't like it, I can click away to another post or page. I do think the admins have a responsibility to maintain a professional stance above that of the casual user. Anything else is just Lord of the Flies.

Best regards

Donald

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Second in a one horse race...

Donald, our perspectives on this appear to be at odds, much like our senses of humours, perhaps. I don't see anything wrong in a clearly flagged joke, but if it has caused offence to anyone I gladly apologise. It hadn't dawned on me that some mac users might be so sensitive.

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Hi Hugh

Though I do use a Mac, my main platforms are SADiE and Pyramix. I hope I'm not a platform snob. Sorry if I came across as a Mac person without a sense of humour. I'm going to shut up and go away now.

Best regards

Donald

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Second in a one horse race...

It is amazing how angry people got, and so quickly. PC users are frequently mocked in these forums, as are "cautious" mac users (like myself). I get a lot of grief for suggesting that Mac users employ some type of malware protection, and I get responses similar to what I'd expect if I handed them a warm jar of sputum. I use Mac, PC, Atari and Linux (Fedora and Gentoo), and I'm not emotionally invested in any of them.

How about some practical advice on how to keep Macs safe. So far I have discovered that to disable Java is a good move and I have seen a recommend for Sophos. I would really appreciate any advice.

I can't see the point in bickering or gloating or scoring points, I just want to avoid the problems as far as I can.

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Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,

One strange thing, I lost my flash player somehow. However I couldn't download it again without switching Java back on. Once installed I could then switch it off again.

I find it a bit strange that this malware pretends to be an Adobe upgrade or sneeks in via Java, and that the Adobe site downloader needs Java to run? Is that just a coincidence or is it related I wonder.

I think Hugh deserves a VC for being so brave.

Of course it was a joke, but jokes work best when the recipients take them seriously, so if we react negatively - whose fault is it?

I know I've been guilty of holier than though comments, at least to friends, if not on this forum, so humor like that serves to correct our 'reality distortion fields', to coin a SJ symptom.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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'reality distortion fields'

Bob

---

Never underestimate these guys. It's like NASA.
I agree, Hugh is very brave and whatever they are paying him it's not enough.

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17ft here! Too deep for non divers.

Edited by Hamund (06/04/12 02:13 AM)

For goodness sake go and take an aspirin. Or a valium. Better still go and get a life. The man was clearly joking. Clearly that is to everyone except low functioning sanctimonious pond life.

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The only excuse we have for making music in the first place is to make it differently..vis-a-vis our own difference (Glenn Gould)

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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I think Hugh deserves a VC for being so brave.

Of course it was a joke, but jokes work best when the recipients take them seriously, so if we react negatively - whose fault is it?

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It's really a question of perception Bob. I use a Mac and found Hugh's joke to be extremely funny, as indeed all his jokes are. However, I work in a studio complex with 6 other Mac-using composers. We occasionally all log-on during communal coffee breaks to read this excellent forum.

I have to say, one guy (Gunter) who has been having alot of trouble with his machine lately read Hugh's joke and was visibly hurt. To such an extent that he wandered outside for a fag and had to be consoled by his girlfriend for half an hour. I just don't think he got the joke and I think he thought it came across as a bit spiteful. He has got over it now though I am pleased to say. But lest it not be forgotten that we musicians are sensitive things and also persons from foreign shores may read these posts and be totally bamboozled at the subtlety of some of the humour.

I would suggest that in the future the mods stay well clear of any attempts at comedy just in case their words are misinterpreted. We know how easily that can happen on here.

It's all about perception; remember, one man's Salad Nicoise is another man's rabbit food.

Quote Hamund:

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Quote Bob Bickerton:

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'reality distortion fields'

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Speaking of which - what evidence is there of the supposed 600,000 infected???

a thread on the macrumors site includes some 300 posts on the matter - and all those that have checked used Terminal have found their systems to be 'clear' - including my own with NO AV s/ware whatsoever



So how many here on SOS have actually been infected or know somebody who has?


and just for completeness, perhaps Hugh can enlighten us on how many infected PCs he may have actually come across, outside of media reports?

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"that's what i think, anyway"

I have to say, one guy (Gunter) who has been having alot of trouble with his machine lately read Hugh's joke and was visibly hurt. To such an extent that he wandered outside for a fag and had to be consoled by his girlfriend for half an hour. I just don't think he got the joke and I think he thought it came across as a bit spiteful. He has got over it now though I am pleased to say. But lest it not be forgotten that we musicians are sensitive things and also persons from foreign shores may read these posts and be totally bamboozled at the subtlety of some of the humour.

I would suggest that in the future the mods stay well clear of any attempts at comedy just in case their words are misinterpreted

Visibly hurt! Had to be consoled! No comedy!

Oh wait, I see, you are making a joke. Wow I nearly reacted to your joke the way Paul did to Hugh!!



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The only excuse we have for making music in the first place is to make it differently..vis-a-vis our own difference (Glenn Gould)

Viruses are not a joking matter & as those who have experienced them will tell you, it isn't funny.
When will the next "love bug" come out and destroy PCs like the last one did ?

Mcafee quoted some years ago, that there are over 10 million threats to Windows systems.
This a single threat to the Mac OS, that can't install unless certain criteria are met and then, can't do much.
So if you install Little Snitch, for example, you are covered.

Wow, I am thinking I need to buy a safer computer.........not!

To check if you might be unlucky, check out this link to test (and remove.)

I tested mine and I'm clear.

Malware Removal Procedure

It involves entering two lines in to terminal.
If you don't know how, open Terminal & copy and paste them in.

Simples.....

Quote Scope:

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To check if you might be unlucky, check out this link to test (and remove.)

I tested mine and I'm clear.

Malware Removal Procedure

It involves entering two lines in to terminal.
If you don't know how, open Terminal & copy and paste them in.

Simples.....

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My OS 10.5 came up with "does not exist" to that, so I'm clean.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

I have to say as a Mac user I take great pleasure in informing many Windoze users the benefits of not having AV installed on my machine and take any opportunity available to ridicule their choice of machine. So for Hugh to take this one opportunity to return the piss taking, I think we just have to take it on the chin and laugh with him instead of blowing it all out of proportion.

It was clearly a joke, and we Mac users did deserve it I think!

Quote ConcertinaChap:

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Just a reminder that Sophos provide free and good quality anti-virus (and anti-trojan ) software for Macs here.

CC

Edit: Here is a discussion on the Sophos forums on setting up SAV for use on a Mac used for audio recording.

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But Mac users don't DO "free"! Expensive is Best, remember?

(Just check this didn't all arise on April 1st? :-) But ha-ha-ha anyway.

Found this: TEST4FLASHBACK this will download a little app that will tell if your machine is infected

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Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I know it's bad form, and I apologise in advance... but as a PC user can I just say: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

Sorry /coat

hugh

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I still wouldn't not swap my Mac for your Virus magnet.

That's absolutely fine with me Scope, because I wouldn't want to swap either!
Can't remembe the last time I had a virus/trojan problem. Must be several years ago now...

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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That's absolutely fine with me Scope, because I wouldn't want to swap either!
Can't remembe the last time I had a virus/trojan problem. Must be several years ago now...

hugh

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Ah but do you use anti virus/Trojan software and does this cost money and take time to manage? And if so, would you be offended if we had a ( tiny) giggle on your behalf in response?

Must say this is the first time in 14 years I've had to check for virus/Trojans, and it took me 5 minutes and cost nothing - what a pain these Macs are.............

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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Ah but do you use anti virus/Trojan software and does this cost money and take time to manage? And if so, would you be offended if we had a ( tiny) giggle on your behalf in response?

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Please enjoy your giggle, Bob -- I can take a joke!

Yes, it costs money, but decent virus/trojan protection for Windoze OS is actually very cheap -- my last three-year renewal for all my machines running the Eset protection cost about £75 (and it's a business expense, of course). I think I can afford 7p a day for complete peace of mind!

It's completely hands-free too and doesn't need active managing at all -- it updates itself daily (and sometimes more often!), and just sits quietly in the background automatically trapping the occasional attack attempt via email, websites, program downloads/updates etc. It is very rarely triggered and hasn't missed anything for years. Importantly, it doesn't cause any noticeable running issues either -- no significant CPU overhead and no slowed responses.... although I know this is not the case with Norton's AV offerings which are undoubtedly the work of the Devil!). The technology is very mature and effective and I really don't understand why people don't use it. I can't recommend Eset highly enough -- although there are many others providers...

I don't know what's available for the Mac world, but now that Macs are (at board level) PCs in expensive boxes running the same Intel code base, it seems inevitable that virus/trojan attacks are going to become much more common on the Mac platform and that it would make sense to take some simple protective steps.

Virus /trojan attacks aren't funny -- been there, suffered that -- but it's not hard to maintain effective backups and its easy to install effective protection. I'll try to keep my wry smile under control...

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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That's absolutely fine with me Scope, because I wouldn't want to swap either!
Can't remembe the last time I had a virus/trojan problem. Must be several years ago now...

---

(Slight presumption that Hugh runs Windows 7 here) but I feel the need to underline Hugh's point again. I run Windows 7 on my works machine that has a permanent IP address on a university network and is thus completely accessible to the whole world. AV is installed and the amount of time this, and windows update management takes me is insignificant - updates are all automatic. I've never caught a virus/trojan on it and being a developer, I'm quite liberal about the free/shareware software I install too.

As a point of comparison, our systems admin placed an unpatched XP SP3 machine on our network and it was compromised in a few minutes... but XP is an old operating system developed when broadband access was the exception and not the expected norm

I choose to use Mac because the hardware is nicer, controlled and OS X is based on Unix. It is inherently more secure. But security is a process and for all MS faults over the years they have more than an edge on Apple now: Apple computers are usually the first to be hacked in challenges* and as the Apple iOS/OS X surges past MS operating systems in the numbers of installations, we'd better get more serious about security.

Windows users have been there, done it and worn out the t-shirt. Lets learn from their past misfortunes.

Steve

*I will note that it's usually Safari that is compromised - you could always use Chrome or Firefox if you are concerned - and the hackers get to keep the hardware they hack...

--------------------
arK music

Edited by arkieboy (07/04/12 10:51 AM)

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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[I think I can afford 7p a day for complete peace of mind!

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7p a day for complete peace of mind is indeed good value, but what is better, complete peace of mind or enlightenment?

Bob

--------------------
www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I know it's bad form, and I apologise in advance... but as a PC user can I just say: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

Sorry /coat

hugh

---

How cruel of you Hugh. But then again... Mwahahahahahahaa!

--------------------
I have a very special mic placement for stroppy divas.

Quote ConcertinaChap:

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Some time back as a Mac (as well as PC) user I advocated installing anti-virus software on Macs and got roundly and loudly told off by those that believe that Macs are charmed and cannot ever be infected by anything. So, I'm going to join you: ha ha ha ha ha!

---

Well, I'm going to take this one a little personally, not as someone who has ever had the attitude you describe but as someone who *has* posted on the pointlessness (imo) up to now on installing Mac AV software, but also as someone who is very interested in security issues and not blind to anything - responsible computer use is *always* the first step to keeping a system secure.

*But* - I still stand by my opinions. Without doing extensive research, what I've read suggests that *none* of the currently available Mac AV software would have protected any machine against this exploit/trojan. None. What am I paying for if I'm buying protective software that doesn't protect me from the very things I'm buying it for?

I've always said I don't see the point of running AV software when there are no viruses to protect - not only are they not protecting you, but they are actually instilling a false sense of confidence in your system, making it potentially *more* likely to get something bad.

Macs were *always* going to start getting targeted by virus writers at some point, *especially* as they get more popular and more aspirational to own. At some point protecting from viruses etc *will* become a necessity. I'm not convinced we are there yet.

And while the Mac AV software people are scrambling to get their software to protect against this vulnerability, we can see that the Mac virus world isn't yet mature enough to develop tools to solidly protect our systems. Responsible computer use, software updates and following the security advice in news articles is generally good practice.

Was I infected? No. And one of the interesting things about this particular exploit is that is wouldn't install if the user runs Little Snitch, which I do, because it is an excellent way to keep an eye on what your computer is doing regarding network activity. And I run it as part of keeping good practice with knowing what my machine is doing.

So - I'm not laughing at anybody. Macs will get viruses, and at some point no doubt my advice will change to recommend running Mac AV software. But it hasn't yet.

This is a nice summary of Flashback:
http://www.macworld.com/article/1166254/what_you_need_to_know_about_the_fl ashback_trojan.html


Edited by desmond (08/04/12 07:09 PM)

Quote desmond:

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...*none* of the currently available Mac AV software would have protected any machine against this exploit/trojan. None. What am I paying for if I'm buying protective software that doesn't protect me from the very things I'm buying it for?

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This is one of those lovely circular but rather self-defeating arguments. All systems have security flaws and sooner or later someone will find and exploit a 'new' flaw. The companies that make anti-virus software are constantly looking for these attacks and quickly develop solutions. Those solutions are then quickly distribited to the antivirus software through regular updates so that the vast majority of users are then protected. If you don't have an AV system on the compuiter in the first place you can't be updated and can never be protected.

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

If Apple wouldn't have sat on their hands for a couple of months, but released a security update when there was still time, no machines would have been infected.

Personally, I think the responsibility for anti-virus/trojan protection lies squarely with the makers of commercial OS', i.e. Apple or MSFT. They write the code, they know exactly where potential vulnerabilities lie and how to patch them. We are talking about multi-billion dollar corporations with access to vast resources, not a couple of geeks sitting in a basement. If Apple or MSFT can't get a handle on their code, who can?

The enduser should not need to concern himself with patching holes in operating systems. We made Apple and MSFT incredibly rich. It's their job to take care of security. Of course, the biggest risk factors are human error and poor judgement by users. However, drive-by infections such as the one we're talking about are entirely avoidable, given a little care by the OS makers.

Quote Tui:

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If Apple wouldn't have sat on their hands for a couple of months, but released a security update when there was still time, no machines would have been infected.

Personally, I think the responsibility for anti-virus/trojan protection lies squarely with the makers of commercial OS', i.e. Apple or MSFT. They write the code, they know exactly where potential vulnerabilities lie and how to patch them. We are talking about multi-billion dollar corporations with access to vast resources, not a couple of geeks sitting in a basement. If Apple or MSFT can't get a handle on their code, who can?

The enduser should not need to concern himself with patching holes in operating systems. We made Apple and MSFT incredibly rich. It's their job to take care of security. Of course, the biggest risk factors are human error and poor judgement by users. However, drive-by infections such as the one we're talking about are entirely avoidable, given a little care by the OS makers.

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+1. Apple should take care of this. It would serve them well to ensure that the popular concept "Macs don't get infected " is in fact true



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Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,

Quote Tui:

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Personally, I think the responsibility for anti-virus/trojan protection lies squarely with the makers of commercial OS', i.e. Apple or MSFT.

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So it should. But you remember what happened when Microsoft wanted to integrate protection into Windows? Lawsuits from third-party security companies and a big, expensive fuss. No reason to think Apple would be immune from the same thing.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote Tui:

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Personally, I think the responsibility for anti-virus/trojan protection lies squarely with the makers of commercial OS', i.e. Apple or MSFT.

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So it should. But you remember what happened when Microsoft wanted to integrate protection into Windows? Lawsuits from third-party security companies and a big, expensive fuss. No reason to think Apple would be immune from the same thing.

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That's true, but they are already doing it, it's just that they're not doing it as well as they could and anyway, it's not like Apple to shy away from legal action.......

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

I can't wait to rub this into the mac fanboy's faces who said macs can't and won't get viruses. On the other hand it looks like I wont be doing too much surfing on my mac book anymore

Edited by wschwanke (10/04/12 02:03 AM)

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote Tui:

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Personally, I think the responsibility for anti-virus/trojan protection lies squarely with the makers of commercial OS', i.e. Apple or MSFT.

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So it should. But you remember what happened when Microsoft wanted to integrate protection into Windows? Lawsuits from third-party security companies and a big, expensive fuss. No reason to think Apple would be immune from the same thing.

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i've always thought that the way MS were forced to remove things like EW says (DVD codecs spring to mind as well) was massively unfair. Apple were happily allowed to incorporate them into OS X because they had a small user base in comparison to MS. now Mac users are at an all time high... possibly because the OS has everything you need without having to fork out for extra software?

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

How could it be considered illegal or illegitimate when a company wants to protect their own products? That makes no sense whatsoever.

> remember what happened when Microsoft wanted to integrate protection into Windows? Lawsuits from third-party security companies and a big, expensive fuss. No reason to think Apple would be immune from the same thing.

But they are in every way and always have been. You don't have to "choose your browser" when you start using a Mac, yet MS were forced to include this on the grounds of "competition".


> How could it be considered illegal or illegitimate when a company wants to protect their own products? That makes no sense whatsoever.

It was considered to not be in the best interests of a competitive market.

Quote wschwanke:

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I can't wait to rub this into the mac fanboy's faces who said macs can't and won't get viruses. On the other hand it looks like I wont be doing too much surfing on my mac book anymore

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What a negative first post..........

Best to keep things in perspective, you're still far less likely to get infected using a Mac with up to date software than a PC, so it's perfectly safe to use your MacBook to reply to this thread.........hopefully in a more positive fashion next time!

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Having come from Win to OsX a couple of years ago, I never let go of my distrust of – well everything and everyone – and therefore put some safeties on my computers. Both Little Snitch and ClamXAV stopped this one from installing. Now I rarely had any issues back when I was running XP, so quite possibly I might have gone without hitches even now. But with those programs in place, my machines were clean.

My main computer is usually connected to internet 24/7 and I have LS snooping in the background all the time, even when I'm recording, mixing and editing. How many problems have I had these past 5 mac years? 1, yeah, and that one incident was with Pace iLok and OsX firewall playing badly together after installing Lion. Took me some 15 minutes to download new drivers, do some reinstalls and rerun plugin checks on my DAW.

I remember the late 90s when audio workstations were delicate to the point of "don't look at it, or it will choke", but in my experience that is rarely the case now. Still, I use RME with rock solid drivers and pay attention to security issues and the status on my computers (apps misbehaving is fairly easy to spot with iStat and the like).

Instead of cloistering my system, I've gone the way of trying to stay in tune with the changes. Been working just fine. By the way, I still use Win at work (XP and 7).

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Aaro Sahari, FY United
Mac, RME FF800, Logic, Genelec 8020s and random stuff

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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What a negative first post..........

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Well said, Sir.

CC

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Putting the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

To be fair to Microsoft and Apple the number one injection method into both OS's is a 3rd party component IE Oracles Java VM. Hardly their fault! Yes Apple should have sent out the latest Java VM sooner but at least they do. MS don't patch against this* and expect you to install the latest Java if you have it.

*It's not a core OS exploit so why should they.

Quote wschwanke:

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I can't wait to rub this into the mac fanboy's faces who said macs can't and won't get viruses. On the other hand it looks like I wont be doing too much surfing on my mac book anymore

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Great news, perhaps that means you wont be posting again...

My Mac's online all the time and I never had˚any ißues whatsôev

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PA stuff on FB

Quote johnny h:

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Great news, perhaps that means you wont be posting again...

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No need to be so judgemental and unwelcoming Johnny h. Humour and good intentions don't always come across as the poster might wish in text-based forums like this.

Let's give the guy the the benefit of doubt and have the good grace to be a little friendlier, eh?

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

How can folks get upset or sniffy about jokes made about types of computers? Would you get upset if someone made a joke about flathead screw drivers?? Where i work we use mac's, win7, linux and cisco ios. Which one is best? Depends on the job. Would it be funny to make a joke about running itunes on a cisco server - maybe. Would it be a cause of offence? No.

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right.........

What is funny about expressing pleasure at the misfortune of others?

Its kind of what all humour is based upon, remember slapstick? Is it possible to be witty without a trace of cruelty?

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Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,

Quote DAGGILARR:

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Its kind of what all humour is based upon, remember slapstick? Is it possible to be witty without a trace of cruelty?

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You've got nice fingers............................

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Might get RSI at that rate!

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PA stuff on FB

Just got around to reading the thread, and found four pages of "Attack of the killer handbags."

Let's just remember that this is the internet, and you don't have to read it. And the worst that can happen is that a stranger types at you in a harsh font.

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Quote SecretSam:

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And the worst that can happen is that a stranger types at you in a harsh font.

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Or worse; comic sans.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote Richie Royale:

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Quote SecretSam:

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And the worst that can happen is that a stranger types at you in a harsh font.

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Or worse; comic sans.

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Arrrrgggggghhhhh.......

Yes, on reflection that would be pretty bad.

Handbags it is, then.



(Nice use of the semicolon, by the way.)

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Something that ppl might want to consider is that a lot of sites (social networking / Banking etc) require that the user takes precautions to minimize data theft, ie virus or malware infection, there will soon come a point were saying your OS is exempt from such a ruling will not cut it... and lets face it some ppl will do anything to get out of doing what they should

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www.dragonlogos.co.uk

Quote Tui:

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How could it be considered illegal or illegitimate when a company wants to protect their own products? That makes no sense whatsoever.

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Yup. But it happened.

New version of Mac OS X Trojan exploits Word, not Java

Quote:

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The new version of the Trojan uses malformed Word documents to open a backdoor for remote hackers to steal information or install further code. Just like many recent variants of Mac-specific Trojans, OS X users may be caught off guard as there is no prompt to enter your username or password when the malicious software installs itself onto your Mac

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Full Story From ZDNet Here

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www.dragonlogos.co.uk

Quote DragonLogos:

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New version of Mac OS X Trojan exploits Word, not Java

Quote:

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The new version of the Trojan uses malformed Word documents to open a backdoor for remote hackers to steal information or install further code. Just like many recent variants of Mac-specific Trojans, OS X users may be caught off guard as there is no prompt to enter your username or password when the malicious software installs itself onto your Mac

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Full Story From ZDNet Here

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Can't get to the site. Perhaps it's hosted on a Mac? (Sorry, I can't help being just a LITTLE gleeful. I'm sympathetic really :-)

What's security like on the iToys? The lifestyle of continually installing new Apps seems risky. Microsoft are jumping on the App bandwagon too, with Windows 8. Wasn't the whole idea of security that you set up a computer with the applications you needed then USED it, rather than downloading every cute little program that caught your eye?

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote DragonLogos:

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New version of Mac OS X Trojan exploits Word, not Java

Quote:

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The new version of the Trojan uses malformed Word documents to open a backdoor for remote hackers to steal information or install further code. Just like many recent variants of Mac-specific Trojans, OS X users may be caught off guard as there is no prompt to enter your username or password when the malicious software installs itself onto your Mac

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Full Story From ZDNet Here

---

Can't get to the site. Perhaps it's hosted on a Mac? (Sorry, I can't help being just a LITTLE gleeful. I'm sympathetic really :-)

What's security like on the iToys? The lifestyle of continually installing new Apps seems risky. Microsoft are jumping on the App bandwagon too, with Windows 8. Wasn't the whole idea of security that you set up a computer with the applications you needed then USED it, rather than downloading every cute little program that caught your eye?

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You make no sense. What's iToys? What's WITH the excess use of RATHER random capitalisation?

Quote johnny h:

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Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote DragonLogos:

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New version of Mac OS X Trojan exploits Word, not Java

Quote:

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The new version of the Trojan uses malformed Word documents to open a backdoor for remote hackers to steal information or install further code. Just like many recent variants of Mac-specific Trojans, OS X users may be caught off guard as there is no prompt to enter your username or password when the malicious software installs itself onto your Mac

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Full Story From ZDNet Here

---

Can't get to the site. Perhaps it's hosted on a Mac? (Sorry, I can't help being just a LITTLE gleeful. I'm sympathetic really :-)

What's security like on the iToys? The lifestyle of continually installing new Apps seems risky. Microsoft are jumping on the App bandwagon too, with Windows 8. Wasn't the whole idea of security that you set up a computer with the applications you needed then USED it, rather than downloading every cute little program that caught your eye?

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You make no sense. What's iToys? What's WITH the excess use of RATHER random capitalisation?

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iPads, iPhones ... you know, the things you download Apps on to. But you knew that.

Nothing random about my capitals. They are there for emphasis. A standard technique. This would BE random. BUT you knew that ALLready really too, didn't YOU? :-)

What IS security like on the iThingies?

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote:

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You make no sense. What's iToys? What's WITH the excess use of RATHER random capitalisation?

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iPads, iPhones ... you know, the things you download Apps on to. But you knew that.

Nothing random about my capitals. They are there for emphasis. A standard technique. This would BE random. BUT you knew that ALLready really too, didn't YOU? :-)

What IS security like on the iThingies?

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With that kind of smugness I do hope you haven't left your teens. Answering your question, and assuming your hilariously witty term "iThingies" (sides have indeed split) refers to iPhones and iPads, security is extremely high. There are no viruses in the wild which affect either.

Quote johnny h:

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With that kind of smugness I do hope you haven't left your teens. Answering your question, and assuming your hilariously witty term "iThingies" (sides have indeed split) refers to iPhones and iPads, security is extremely high. There are no viruses in the wild which affect either.

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Back in your pram. They're only computers. Not a religion. I AM allowed to mock them!

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote johnny h:

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With that kind of smugness I do hope you haven't left your teens. Answering your question, and assuming your hilariously witty term "iThingies" (sides have indeed split) refers to iPhones and iPads, security is extremely high. There are no viruses in the wild which affect either.

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Back in your pram. They're only computers. Not a religion. I AM allowed to mock them!

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You are allowed, certainly. As for capable, the jury's still out....

Just a heads up as it seems another one is around now too:

http://www.techspot.com/news/48213-sabpub-mac-trojan-spreads-through-micro soft-office-vulnerability.html

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http://www.williammorrismusic.com

Having read about this earlier my guess is it would affect few people here. Nevertheless it's more evidence (if it were needed) that security through obscurity for the Mac is now sadly dead and buried. RIP.

CC

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Putting the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote ConcertinaChap:

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Having read about this earlier my guess is it would affect few people here. Nevertheless it's more evidence (if it were needed) that security through obscurity for the Mac is now sadly dead and buried. RIP.

CC

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yeah - but y'know... a handful of issues next to the thousands a week on the "other one"....

What is it about computers that makes people so savagely hostile to each other? It's almost as bad as football supporters

As has already been mentioned, all software has bugs, and as it gets steadily more complex and interwoven I would expect vulnerabilities to correspondingly increase. However, something like antivirus is not a solution. It should be part of a managed risk reduction, which starts about a metre away from the screen! If you're on any kind network your security boundary should include a decent firewall there, not inside the computer. Stop most of the buggers at your garden gate, not the back door.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote Folderol:

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all software has bugs

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Yep - but experience has shown some software has more bugs than others...

Quote:

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something like antivirus is not a solution. It should be part of a managed risk reduction

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That.

Quote:

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If you're on any kind network your security boundary should include a decent firewall there, not inside the computer. Stop most of the buggers at your garden gate, not the back door.

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Yep - or at least, 10 years ago. Nowadays much of the stuff-to-be-worried-about comes via the web, and most firewalls are configured to pass HTTP...

Quote Folderol:

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What is it about computers that makes people so savagely hostile to each other? It's almost as bad as football supporters

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It is the new racism/classism. Just as idiotic and ultimately pointless.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote Folderol:

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What is it about computers that makes people so savagely hostile to each other? It's almost as bad as football supporters

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Because in the main, your choices of platform reflect on your values and tastes, so criticising your platform is often taken as a direct personal criticism right to the core of your self - hence why people flare up so much.

People should chill, really.

And when I say "people", I largely mean "people on the internets". People seem to be a little more sane IRL...

Quote narcoman:

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yeah - but y'know... a handful of issues next to the thousands a week on the "other one"....

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Yeah - but, like, I remember when the first viruses appeared back in the 90s. There weren't thousands then. There was a dribble. Now there's a flood. One difference from the 90s is that malware writers were thin on the ground then, there's a lot more now. One can hope that they will all keep their attention fixed on the PC but I'm not going to bet the mortgage on it.

Hey ho.

CC

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Putting the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote Richie Royale:

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It is the new racism/classism.

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And narcism.