So I'll make this straight forward.

I have narrowed my Cab choice down to either a Blackstar HTV-212/412 or an Orange ppc212 open back.

I've heard that Orange amps are generally better, but I've heard god things about Blackstar and I wanted to know if anyone has used or compared both amps?

Cheers!

Here are some links to both cab units

Orange PPC 212 OB

Blackstar HTV-412

Edited by JamesOrange93 (24/04/12 11:24 PM)

The industry standard cab is the Marshall 1960, at least here in the States, yet at the same time they sound horrible through certain types of amps, for example the Peavey 5150, which sounds a lot more musical with a Mesa cab.

So just saying off the bat which one will be better wouldn't make much sense. I think we at least need to know the amp and the guitar that you'd be using as well as the main type of tones you're looking to achieve from the rig.

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www.descentintomadness.com

As stated above, more detail is needed so you can receive valid advice here - a guitar cabinet and the speakers in it make a VAST difference to the tone you get. If you tell everyone the kind of music you want to make, the amp you're pairing it with and the guitars you use then that'll get you a good range of opinions.

Having a brief look at the two you've mentioned, the Orange is £350 and comes loaded with 'named' Celestion speakers (vintage 30s) so you can go on the Celestion website and get a rough idea of what you're faced with. There is some great info there on the voicings and, whilst nothing compares to trying them, it'll give you a rough idea of what each model is trying to achieve.

The Blackstar comes with 'Celestions voiced for the Venue amps'. So you've got no clue as to what they are trying to voice it as..... I wouldn't gladly buy one of these without trying it with my amp first and seeing if it was a good fit, but then again I'd apply that ethos to any cab I went for!

Celestion are (one of) the industry standard speakers. Their Heritige series are still made in the UK (£150 odd each speaker) the rest these days is made in China. Not saying that makes them 'bad' (I have a Chinese Les Paul copy and it's a fab guitar for the cash). Just pointing it out to try and help you make sense of the choices you face from a pricing perspective and to understand why some are so much more expensive than others.

If you live somewhere near Yorkshire, you could do far worse than contact http://www.matamp.co.uk/matamp-212-cabinet/ The chap that runs the place has a 'wall of speakers' and a switch. You can take your amp along and he'll switch between cabs so you can hear the difference and find the speakers that make you smile. He'll then build them into a cabinet for you. You can mix and match speakers and he will be happy to advise you on what will work (in his opinion) with your amp and tastes. It will, of course, cost you more than either of the options you've mentioned but it will be the 'sound in YOUR head' (to quote another company moto )

Gary

i have 3 matamp cabs and i can highly recommend them. their 2nd hand prices are pretty good if you hang around the official matamp forum / ebay.

Quote JamesOrange93:

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So I'll make this straight forward.

I have narrowed my Cab choice down to either a Blackstar HTV-212/412 or an Orange ppc212 open back.

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Go to a shop where you can try them both, don't even begin to base your choice on what someone else thinks. I think Mesa cabs are truly over-priced, I'd far rather spend similar money on an Engl cab, but that's pure preference.

Having said that, the spec on the Orange is far better, and I have played both and far prefer Orange. I have an Orange PPC410 and an Engl 2*12 at the moment.

Quote Gary_W:

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The Blackstar comes with 'Celestions voiced for the Venue amps'. So you've got no clue as to what they are trying to voice it as.....

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Blackstar appear to have stopped listing the speaker model details on their site / handbook. I have the Venue 40 combo and it has the Celstion Seventy 80 spearker. It's a fairly low cost model and I have thought about upgrading.

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http://www.random-thought.co.uk/

Okay, I guess it would have made sense if I had posted what my intentions were with the cab and what gear I already use.

So that you dont loose your faith in humanity, I was going to try out both cabs, but I just wanted to see if there was anything majro to avoid with either.

So my two main guitars are

Jackson JS30t
ESP SC-207

The amp head I'm using (but looking to upgrade soon) is

Line 6 HD150

I am looking to use the cab both for live shows and to do some studio recording with, so it seems to me that the Blackstar, because it is described as voiced for live shows, doesn't fit what I need completely.

If you're using a Line 6 amp, why have you decided against the Line 6 cabinets?

Thing is, a modelling amp is having to do its best to give you a 'flavour' of Marshall, Fender, Boogie etc all through the same cabinet. I don't know for sure but I will bet you that the 'Celestion Customs' in the L6 cabinets are fairly neutral beasts compared with more flavourful speakers as they will be wanting them to work well with the full range of voices the L6 amp puts out.

So I am wondering how well a 'regular' guitar cab will do with L6 gear or other modelling amps? No experience of it so perhaps my fears are unfounded?

Can you also say what amp you are thinking of upgrading to? If it's another modelling amp, the above ethos may still apply

These...

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_g412a_vintage.htm
Always seem to get a good report.

Dave.

I'd say for more neutral sound for modeling I'd go with Jensen or Eminence speakers.

For the use you specify I'd guess and venture that either of the models will do a decent job, probably will guess that the Orange will be slightly better, but you'll get coloring from the speaker which you'll have to adjust for and in the end you might end up paying for more quality than a digital rig can produce.

Have you ruled out Marshall 1960 cab? Reason I am asking is because I have a friend that uses a Line 6 POD XT through Marshall JCM800 fx return and 1960 cab and while I hate modeling preamps I have to say that his sounds fairly good.

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www.descentintomadness.com

The Celestion 70/80 is said by some to be a very neutral, even boring speaker! It has the advantage of a high power rating and would be safe on any 50/60 watter and I dare say even most 100s if you keep a cool head?

Hey SoS! What about a guitar drive unit shootout?
Such a test should of course be the province of a guitar magazine but I cannot think of one that would/could do it properly.

Dave.

It would certainly be useful to have such a shoot out, especially to identify speakers that are full of their own character in a particular direction vs those that will be more willing to allow the amp to stamp its character .

Quote ef37a:

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The Celestion 70/80 is said by some to be a very neutral, even boring speaker! It has the advantage of a high power rating and would be safe on any 50/60 watter and I dare say even most 100s if you keep a cool head?
Dave.

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Prior to buying my Blackstar I used a Tech21 Power Engine combo with a Vox ToneLab. The Power Engine had a Seventy 80 and was intended to be neutral for use with amp / cab simulations.

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http://www.random-thought.co.uk/

Quote leemo:

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i have 3 matamp cabs and i can highly recommend them. their 2nd hand prices are pretty good if you hang around the official matamp forum / ebay.

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Yup. Cheaper to buy direct from Jeff and a FAR better speaker cab.

Quote Gary_W:

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If you're using a Line 6 amp, why have you decided against the Line 6 cabinets?

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The main reason I've not gone for the Line 6 amps or even the Marshall amp is that I am restricted as to how big the cab unit can be, and neighbours complaining about noise is the other issue.

So having a smaller amp with half the speakers is going to fit what I can have, I was really looking for a 2x12 to use until I get a bigger place, then I will be looking to go for a 4x12 as well as using the 2x12, but until then I'm stuck with the space I have.

The two speakers you're choosing between are quite different animals. A closed back 412 and an open back 212 will have very different levels of thump and bottom end. It really depends what sort of sound you're after. The bad news is that if the neighbours are of the complaining sort they're going to complain either way. The only real way around that is to turn the amp right down, or try running a small practice amp at home.

J

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www.jackruston.com

... or to turn up and hope the neighbours are encouraged to move.

+1 for Matamp gear. I had one of their 4x10 cabs years ago. Stunningly well-made. Sounded great. And the late, lamented Matt Matthias was a real gent.

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

On the 'neighbours with noise' issue....

I run a 7w Matamp through its matching 1x12 cabinet. It is capable of rattling the double glazing and, if I crank it, it can be heard in the neighbours garden across the road. Fortunately I live in a detached house so using it in the spirit intended is occasionally possible but it still isn't even remotely sociable!

If you're thinking that a 2x12 is going to be significantly kinder to your neighbours, think again.... A 1x12 is more than enough to get you an ASBO so perhaps turning down or (horror of horrors) looking at a modelling solution until you move might be better?

I obviously don't know your neighbourly situation but if your idea of appeasing them is running full blast through 2 12 inch speakers rather than 4 I'm starting to feel for them