Hi there - we have a female vocalist and cover a vast range of songs in our cover set....from low range Amy Winehouse to screaming ACDC covers.
With no soundman out front, we have to rely on what we are hearing on stage which i know isnt ideal.
We have heard from various audience members that during the low range songs, the vocals are sitting too low - and you've guessed it - the DC stuff is taking people faces off!!
My first question is - what do you guys reckon to be the best live vocal mic for a female vocalist? Using 58 at the mo...
My second question is - do you think the best way to work around this would be to set up 2 different mics and swap around for the various different songs? Or is there any outboard gear that will help us to achieve a more balanced vocal sound...
Many thanks for any help!!

Try Sennheiser mics, they're more 'toppy' than an SM58 but are excellent mics. The E835/845 or 865 are all worth a try. But the 865 is a condenser so will need phantom power, unlike the other two which are dynamic.

Best to try a few out before buying IMHO.

If you've no sound-tech I'd suggest your best route is to try and get your musical balance in the band under better control. This includes the dynamics not only of the singer, but the rest of the band as well. You should all be varying your volume and projection according to the song.

Without someone out-front hearing what's happening and making appropriate adjustments you're really on a hiding to nothing trying to sort this by using gear. We could suggest all sorts of technical fixes, but ultimately it's down to the band to do most of the work.

Quote martyrocks:

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Hi there - we have a female vocalist and cover a vast range of songs in our cover set....from low range Amy Winehouse to screaming ACDC covers.
With no soundman out front, we have to rely on what we are hearing on stage which i know isnt ideal.
We have heard from various audience members that during the low range songs, the vocals are sitting too low - and you've guessed it - the DC stuff is taking people faces off!!
My first question is - what do you guys reckon to be the best live vocal mic for a female vocalist? Using 58 at the mo...
My second question is - do you think the best way to work around this would be to set up 2 different mics and swap around for the various different songs? Or is there any outboard gear that will help us to achieve a more balanced vocal sound...
Many thanks for any help!!

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This is about the performance, not the gear. She simply needs to work closer to the mic for the low stuff, pull back a bit for the screaming. This is easier to judge if she can hear herself in a monitor, but by no means impossible if she can't.

Not sure exactly how well it works in live sound, but it worked when I was learning to record, to help compress the vocals (not smashed down, just adjust it for her peaks. Once I learned the trick & tried it live, it helped smooth the sound out alot. I haven't been able to try it enough to know for sure.

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Ice Cold Entertainment DJ/Live Sound Services Ashland, KY, USA
Coming Soon: Presonus 32.4.2AI, QSC KW153/KW181 FOH, EV ELX Foldback

I haven't looked at it in any detail, but would it be worth looking at one of the TC Helicon vocalist pedals for her? It might be possible to give her a selection of presets to let her match her voice processing to different style songs in the set.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Some compression may help the peaks but really, as has been said, the best approach is to have everyone balance and for your vocalist to work the mic more.

As to micrphone choice, well that's really a different topic and will do very little to solve your problem per se. Having said that, the old 58 would not rate highly in my estimation. Maybe a good sound for the screaming stuff, but for ballads I'd prefer something more open, like the Sennies or EVs.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Hi Martyrocks, If you think about all those early 20th century film clips with the cabaret singer performing in front of a large live band, in reality how do you think the singer was heard? The answer was by using dynamics..and that came from the band and the singer. It is too easy to look for technological solutions when performer skill is the answer. Always work from the singer to the back of the stage for your level balance i.e. those at the front of the stage need first consideration when performance volume is concerned. Dave

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My head hurts!

As others have said, backing off the mic is key here..... Whilst the audience members you've asked are making the generalisation that the Amy numbers are vocally too low and the AC/DC are too loud this is the 'obvious' thing that an audience member will spot. Yes, you could fix this with technology (an idea on that in a mo) but it wouldn't fix the entire issue - even the AC/DC will have some quieter bits so mic technique is the zero cost and maximum benefit way forward here.

If you still want to chuck technology at it, our lead vocalist has a litte Roland VE-20 which was about £160. You can create patches 'per song' and one of the things you can do is set the output level for the lead and harmony vocals (it's got a harmoniser on it). Just set the Amy songs at 100% and back off the screamer songs to 80%, change the patch before the song. In this manner, it should do exactly what you're actually asking to do but as stated, what you're wishing for here may still not make you 100% happy. For that, mic technique still gets my vote and everyone else's so far . A cheap monitor plus technique would do you more favours IMO.

Should just say that our singer doesn't use the Roland for the issue you have (her mic technique has 20+ years of stage experience behind it) - as a box it does reverbs, harmoniser, delays etc. so using it in the way I've mentioned is a use I can think of based on me spending a few hours trying to program the thing

Edited by Gary_W (08/05/12 07:58 AM)

The first thing to check is if there's a better key for the 'low range' songs.

If your singer is skilled and experienced then her useful range will be wide without losing the expression and natural sound. Most of us have a limited 'power band' which is a comfort zone we tend to make the most of, leaving us pretty exposed when we stray outside it.

The whole band needs to be involved in making the most of everyone's strengths. Unfortunately, as the 'live sound' pages will testify ego and glory often get in the way.

Your singer is trying to sing parts written by and for other singers working within their comfort zone. That's a tough job.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Compressor is probably a good first step, I think. The "taking people's faces off" is the big peaks from belting it out, and knocking a bit off those will do wonders for the sound. I've got a Drawmer MX-30 which is a bit of a fire-and-forget job - no attack/decay controls, but it works fairly nicely for vocals. Or an RNC-1773 would also be good.

Using compressors live can add a level of control and a professional sheen to the overall sound (very important qualification alert) if used wisely.

Used clumsily, particularly on a small system where 'cutting through' is a main priority they can cause more problems than they solve. Compressors are much more effective even at gentle settings on big systems with lots of headroom. There is a temptation to wind up the ratio to make the effect more apparent on small systems. This can eat into precious headroom before feedback. The singer never learns to use a mic properly, defeating the object of the exercise.

You have the additional problem of not being able to monitor the FOH sound in real time.

Cheap compressors can be useful but if you want something to solve serious problems expect to spend serious money. That money might be better spent elsewhere - basic in ear monitor, for instance.

Best thing to do first - record the gig. Allow the singer to hear herself, it'll be a super useful way to get a good overall perspective.

It will also flag up other balance issues for the rest of the band to consider.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

The band I play in has three vocalists and we change key freely to suit them - usually whoever's leading picks the most comfortable key, but we've had occasions where we've had to re-build songs to have different key changes for each singer's spot.

Fortunately we can play in any key, but I guess for a band that can't transpose freely there may be a problem with hitting the sweet zone for a singer. You do really need to know, if you're doing covers, how much lower or higher your tessitura (the range of your singing voice) is than the original artist's. Of course, if you're doing our own stuff, different conditions pertain, but you still need to set things up so the singer is in the best key for each song.

Of course, if your singer(s) can work the mike to give some balancing out of quiet and louder styles, you're going to be that much further ahead. Not to mention setting up your PA so there's some room for adjustment as you go - admittedly harder when you've no sound guy, but if you're on the limit for loudness and/or feedback anyway, you'll be struggling to get the balance right. So all the stuff scattered about this and other forums about FOH and monitor speaker placement, eq, compression, mike technique, playing with dynamics and everything else all matters. There's usually something you can do that will help even if you haven't the equipment or techniques to do everything that might help.

Quote tacitus:

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Of course, if your singer(s) can work the mike to give some balancing out of quiet and louder styles, you're going to be that much further ahead.

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You seem to class this as icing on the cake! It's basic technique for any singer who uses a mic, like knowing the words and singing in tune :-)

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote tacitus:

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Of course, if your singer(s) can work the mike to give some balancing out of quiet and louder styles, you're going to be that much further ahead.

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You seem to class this as icing on the cake! It's basic technique for any singer who uses a mic, like knowing the words and singing in tune :-)

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Seems obvious, doesn't it? That's one of the first things a singing teacher will work on when improving a singer's technique. When working from scratch a teacher will often work on breathing technique which will make such things second nature.

Untrained singers will often work this out for themselves over time but that depends on being able to hear themselves and being aware of the possibilities and their own strengths and weaknesses.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote shufflebeat:

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Used clumsily, particularly on a small system where 'cutting through' is a main priority they can cause more problems than they solve.

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I'd really have to echo this - there have been a few occasions where people have asked me if I can make their system sound better and my usual technique is to remove any compression and set the eq's to flat. People often spend a bit of time setting things up at the first gig after buying a PA and they don't realise that every venue is different and needs different settings.

I'd suggest that you invest in a decent monitor system so that the singer can hear what she is doing which, in turn, will allow her to control her vocals naturally. If she can't hear what she is doing there's no way that she can control her level.

I'd also take a look at the Audix OM range of vocal mics - they seem to suit female singers (and are pretty good on male singers too).

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net