Hey, this is my first EVER forum post! Here goes...

I'm looking to start recording to promote myself as a young, hopefully, upcoming guitarist. First thing I need, is a laptop! I was originally looking at an apple mac, till i saw the price! Can anyone recommend a good laptop, fast enough to use midi software and run guitar plugins with minimal/no latency, record up to 12 tracks and use as an everyday computer for less than £650.

Thanks for your Help

Aaron G

A second hand Mac

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Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,

If you go for second hand mac you need to get an intel one so you can install windows on it.

Have you looked at the sticky thread re laptops at the top of this forum?

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=414373& a mp;page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1#414373

If you can try out laptops in a shop you should put DPC latency checker on a usb stick and run it on the laptop. Instructions and download here:

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml]http://www.thesycon.de/deu/ latency_check.shtml

If you get a bad result on the model you want try disabling wifi and test again. If you need wifi you could leave the built in one disabled and get a more well behaved USB model. I use an Edimax EW-7811Un.

Finally remember that the latency is as much to do with the audio interface you choose. There's a lot of info here that would help.

/erol

Quote ezza:

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If you go for second hand mac you need to get an intel one so you can install windows on it.

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I agree intel mac a must but why would you want windows on it ? other than maybe a VM for odds and sods

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Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,

Quote DAGGILARR:

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Quote ezza:

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If you go for second hand mac you need to get an intel one so you can install windows on it.

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I agree intel mac a must but why would you want windows on it?

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This is a Windows forum so why wouldn’t the OP want to install Windows!
A more pertinent question is why you would recommend a Mac on a Windows forum? Trolling maybe!

Quote Agharta:

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Quote DAGGILARR:

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Quote ezza:

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If you go for second hand mac you need to get an intel one so you can install windows on it.

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I agree intel mac a must but why would you want windows on it?

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This is a Windows forum so why wouldn’t the OP want to install Windows!
A more pertinent question is why you would recommend a Mac on a Windows forum? Trolling maybe!

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The OP mentioned a Mac I did not recommend one I merely pointed out that they may consider a second hand one. I would, however recommend the use of OSX should they get one. I fail to see how your question is more pertinent; pertinent to what? chill out man

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Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,

Quote DAGGILARR:

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Quote Agharta:

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Quote DAGGILARR:

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Quote ezza:

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If you go for second hand mac you need to get an intel one so you can install windows on it.

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I agree intel mac a must but why would you want windows on it?

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This is a Windows forum so why wouldn’t the OP want to install Windows!
A more pertinent question is why you would recommend a Mac on a Windows forum? Trolling maybe!

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The OP mentioned a Mac I did not recommend one I merely pointed out that they may consider a second hand one. I would, however recommend the use of OSX should they get one. I fail to see how your question is more pertinent; pertinent to what? chill out man

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As long as the OP can get an i5 or i7 macbook for 650 quid. If it's an i5 pc vs a core 2 macbook then I would go for the pc.

/erol

I did think about a second hand mac. If I did, I wouldn't install the windows software as apparently this allows apples to get some microsoft viruses. + the very little teaching I've had on recording was on Logic. Though I dont want the risk that it might break down in 6months leaving me computerless! The laptop ideally needs to last me a good 4-5 years.

Thanks for your advice everyone! I Have seen this... anygood? http://www.johnlewis.com/231577589/Product.aspx

Aaron

Hi

Unpatched machines using any operating system whether Linux,Windows,Apple's OS are vulnerable to viruses.

Keeping your machine patched, firewall on and an antivirus client whatever the OS is always prudent.

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Sabbs

Your requirements seem quite modest. There are many folks on here and in other places using bog standard machines, xp, w7, even the dreaded Vista with no issues. I'm a hobbyist as far as home recording goes but still manage to rack up 20 odd tracks when I'm having friends round. My aging XP Toshiba runs Reaper and a fair few plugins without much of a struggle.

There's a great thread about recommended laptops, many of which can be found second hand, the thread's been running so long.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Generally Mac laptops last much longer than pc ones before they get all slow and weird. Not exactly sure why but it's always been my experience and that of many others...

Quote johnny h:

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Generally Mac laptops last much longer than pc ones before they get all slow and weird. Not exactly sure why but it's always been my experience and that of many others...

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Thanks for passing that on. My friends have said similar, but again surely that depends on what the machine has been used for? That's my main concern about buying secondhand, I dont want to buy one thats been used to run thousands of programms, never been rebooted or whatever. Should this be a Concern??

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

P.s Shufflebeat may you send me a link to that forum??

Aaron G

Quote AardvarkG:

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Quote johnny h:

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Generally Mac laptops last much longer than pc ones before they get all slow and weird. Not exactly sure why but it's always been my experience and that of many others...

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Thanks for passing that on. My friends have said similar, but again surely that depends on what the machine has been used for? That's my main concern about buying secondhand, I dont want to buy one thats been used to run thousands of programms, never been rebooted or whatever. Should this be a Concern??

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

P.s Shufflebeat may you send me a link to that forum??

Aaron G

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Any laptop can break down. Usually it's fixable fairly easy. If you're a student you can get a hefty discount. Or know any students that could get it. For some reason apple really overcharges over here. Another option is if you are going to america buy one there,but throw the box away before customs, you don't want to pay duties on it!

Quote AardvarkG:

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Quote johnny h:

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Generally Mac laptops last much longer than pc ones before they get all slow and weird. Not exactly sure why but it's always been my experience and that of many others...

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Thanks for passing that on. My friends have said similar, but again surely that depends on what the machine has been used for? That's my main concern about buying secondhand, I dont want to buy one thats been used to run thousands of programms, never been rebooted or whatever. Should this be a Concern??

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

P.s Shufflebeat may you send me a link to that forum??

Aaron G

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I got my second hand macbook pro for £650 with one years apple care to run that meant that I could get any fault that showed up fixed virtually the same day, it is a 15" 2.73 core2duo. It is unlikely that you will get an i5 for that but not impossible. If you do go for the used mac option I would recommend you make sure it has some apple care left.

Apparently the average time before upgrade of PC laptops is 3 years where the turn around on mac laptops is 5 often 7 this was what I found out when I was deciding. On average I would find I had to do a full reinstall on PC's at least once a year to keep them crisp, (sometimes more often) my iMac is only just beginning to show signs of slowing after 2 years

Those I know who use PC's for music tend to have dedicated machines they set them up for music and use them for nothing else, I use my Mac for everything.

Whatever you decide to get do not forget to budget for a back up drive

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Strictly an amateur with some nice toys,

I think you should go cheap and cheerful, but dedicated..

I have an acer 5742 i5, bought for 220 s/h and I spent 40 quid on 8gb ram upgrade. So for 260 I have i5, 500gb,8gb Ddr3 ram. It doesn't have a FireWire slot or an expansion slot but has USB 2.0. Some will frown on that, but it makes for a stable, non complex, cheap machine. I have disabled the wifi and uninstalled all software apart from music creation stuff and the USB soundcard driver. It just does music , nothing else. No anti virus, no internet, nothing else plugged into the USB ports.

I'd look for something similar and ensure it is a dedicated mchine. Then buy a classic vibe squier strat and a USB soundcard with the change

Quote AardvarkG:

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The laptop ideally needs to last me a good 4-5 years.

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Laptops are expensive to repair, and therefore one of the few items of consumer technology on which an extended warranty is highly desirable.

Check the maximum period for which any manufacturer (including Apple) will sell you a warranty. That will give you a fair idea of the design life of a laptop computer.

MUST it be a laptop? You get a lot more control over what components go into a desktop, you get a lot more computer for your money, and DPC latency isn't generally an issue. And a desktop model is repairable and upgradable.

Quote Jimplunkett:

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I think you should go cheap and cheerful, but dedicated..

I have an acer 5742 i5, bought for 220 s/h and I spent 40 quid on 8gb ram upgrade. So for 260 I have i5, 500gb,8gb Ddr3 ram. It doesn't have a FireWire slot or an expansion slot but has USB 2.0. Some will frown on that, but it makes for a stable, non complex, cheap machine. I have disabled the wifi and uninstalled all software apart from music creation stuff and the USB soundcard driver. It just does music , nothing else. No anti virus, no internet, nothing else plugged into the USB ports.

I'd look for something similar and ensure it is a dedicated mchine. Then buy a classic vibe squier strat and a USB soundcard with the change

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Those are decent specs on paper but it's a terrible faff not having wifi on a laptop. These days it's really not unreasonable to expect one computer to do everything you need, and MacBook pros do this perfectly well. A better solution than having two bog standard of laptops for sure. Recently the 13 inch mbp has become very popular and a lot of pc users have made the switch. I have yet to encounter one who regrets the decision.

Get the coffee pot on.

Have fun.

www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=414373&page=0& amp;view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1#414373

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote johnny h:

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Thanks for passing that on. My friends have said similar, but again surely that depends on what the machine has been used for? That's my main concern about buying secondhand, I dont want to buy one thats been used to run thousands of programms, never been rebooted or whatever. Should this be a Concern??

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No, because the first thing you will do is wipe the drive and restore the machine to the way it was on the day it was bought, using the disks provided. If these disks aren't available, don't buy that computer.

Quote johnny h:

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Any laptop can break down. Usually it's fixable fairly easy.

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In your dreams! Unless it's a failed drive (which you can swap yourself) the classic laptop repair involves a replacement main board. This is uneconomic unless done under warranty.

Quote AardvarkG:

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Thanks for your advice everyone! I Have seen this... anygood? http://www.johnlewis.com/231577589/Product.aspx

Aaron

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As I said above, put DPC latency checker on a usb stick, go into John Lewis and ask them to let you run it on the model you are interested in.

Also, re security, it's a state of mind rather than something you set and forget. As other people have said, make sure your firewall is on, you pc is patched to the latest version and install a good anti-virus (I use avast).

Macs suffer less from viruses at the moment. That's because they aren't targeted by virus writers not because there is a magic bullet.

Good luck with it!

/erol

Good Luck

(has a sneaky look around)
Would it be absolutely terrible of me to point out that Rain have £50 off their Livebook during May? So at £599 you could get a laptop supported for music use without any of the trouble working out whether something will work or not. I don't like to self-promote but if you forgive me it does seem to answer your original question - http://www.raincomputers.co.uk/livebook-le-a/257.htm

(you haven't seen me right)

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PC-Music.com hints, tips & reviews
Rain Computers UK - Creative Audio PC's

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote johnny h:

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Any laptop can break down. Usually it's fixable fairly easy.

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In your dreams! Unless it's a failed drive (which you can swap yourself) the classic laptop repair involves a replacement main board. This is uneconomic unless done under warranty.

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I really don't know where you get your endless source of misinformation, womb. Most laptop problems are simple software or hard disk faults, along with battery or charger problems. A replacement main board is absolutely not the 'classic' laptop repair. Unless you've spilt water all over it...

But if you do buy a laptop on eBay using PayPal that someone has spilt water over you are entitled to a full refund.

Quote johnny h:

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Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote johnny h:

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Any laptop can break down. Usually it's fixable fairly easy.

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In your dreams! Unless it's a failed drive (which you can swap yourself) the classic laptop repair involves a replacement main board. This is uneconomic unless done under warranty.

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I really don't know where you get your endless source of misinformation, womb. Most laptop problems are simple software or hard disk faults, along with battery or charger problems. A replacement main board is absolutely not the 'classic' laptop repair. Unless you've spilt water all over it...

But if you do buy a laptop on eBay using PayPal that someone has spilt water over you are entitled to a full refund.

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I get it from personal experience! I can think of one household where a Toshiba, an Acer and an Asus (all top-range models) have all needed repair within the 3-year extended warranty requiring mainboard replacement. The machines were worked hard, but not abused. As you say, "beverage incidents" are also common (and SOMETIMES covered under warranty). Maybe I forget about the small, easy-to-repair incidents :-)

Quote ezza:

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Macs suffer less from viruses at the moment. That's because they aren't targeted by virus writers not because there is a magic bullet.

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Highly questionable. There's no shortage of michievous PC users who would love to wipe that smug smile off the Mac-users faces. And there are companies who would love to sell protection software in the Mac market (and Mac users LIKE paying for stuff:-)

This is the one area where Apple can claim an advantage. Their big disadvantage is being a closed system, and the way they are steering that system. "Lifestyle" and integration with all the i-toys is the plan, and a successful, lucrative one. It may leave us out in the cold.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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I get it from personal experience! I can think of one household where a Toshiba, an Acer and an Asus (all top-range models) have all needed repair

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There is nothing 'top range' about those brands. They are typical rubbish pc laptops full of crapware that change their specs every other week. The reason why MacBooks work reliably is they only manufacture a very small select range in vast quantities. No surprises, no downloading dpc latency checker.

Of course portability greatly increases the lightlyhood of an accident.
Even a short fall can be enough to break a laptop and I've seen people flinging them around.
Slamming the lid shut is another nono.
Laptops are fragile.

Quote robinv:

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(has a sneaky look around)
Would it be absolutely terrible of me to point out that Rain have £50 off their Livebook during May? So at £599 you could get a laptop supported for music use without any of the trouble working out whether something will work or not. I don't like to self-promote but if you forgive me it does seem to answer your original question - http://www.raincomputers.co.uk/livebook-le-a/257.htm

(you haven't seen me right)

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What a useful post that answers the OP's original question.
Rare on here these days...

Hopefully he didn't miss it trawling through all of the 'other' posts.

Quote johnny h:

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Quote Exalted Wombat:

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I get it from personal experience! I can think of one household where a Toshiba, an Acer and an Asus (all top-range models) have all needed repair

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There is nothing 'top range' about those brands. They are typical rubbish pc laptops full of crapware that change their specs every other week. The reason why MacBooks work reliably is they only manufacture a very small select range in vast quantities. No surprises, no downloading dpc latency checker.

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I meant they were near the top of THAT brand's range! I know all computer gear (including Apple) comes out of the same factories in Taiwan and, though reliability is generally OK, "quality" doesn't exist!

Naturally, the first thing you will do with ANY new computer is clear out the crapware.

The big question remains - why would anyone in his right mind base a DAW around a portable computer?

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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The big question remains - why would anyone in his right mind base a DAW around a portable computer?

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Perhaps, dare i state the obvious, but to be "portable". It's hard lugging a desktop computer around to do recordings in your mates bedroom or in your rehearsal space - or maybe you're in a small space and don't have the room for a throbbing behemoth taking up loads of desk/floor space. Perhaps, like me, you need both so that i can take my music out and perform it - for that i need the laptop to be more reliable than my desktop - and i'm in my right mind most of the time.

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PC-Music.com hints, tips & reviews
Rain Computers UK - Creative Audio PC's

Quote robinv:

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Quote Exalted Wombat:

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The big question remains - why would anyone in his right mind base a DAW around a portable computer?

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Perhaps, dare i state the obvious, but to be "portable". It's hard lugging a desktop computer around to do recordings in your mates bedroom or in your rehearsal space - or maybe you're in a small space and don't have the room for a throbbing behemoth taking up loads of desk/floor space. Perhaps, like me, you need both so that i can take my music out and perform it - for that i need the laptop to be more reliable than my desktop - and i'm in my right mind most of the time.

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A laptop makes perfect sense for recording I agree. It's really very common for whole commercial records to be produced on a laptop these days. Of course if you are talking pro studios then that's not the case, but we're not talking about that kind of level here. Portability is a far greater asset than squeezing the last 10% out of your machine. We dont live in 1998 anymore, today's computers are plenty fast enough.

Quote jaminem:

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Quote robinv:

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(has a sneaky look around)
Would it be absolutely terrible of me to point out that Rain have £50 off their Livebook during May? So at £599 you could get a laptop supported for music use without any of the trouble working out whether something will work or not. I don't like to self-promote but if you forgive me it does seem to answer your original question - http://www.raincomputers.co.uk/livebook-le-a/257.htm

(you haven't seen me right)

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What a useful post that answers the OP's original question.
Rare on here these days...

Hopefully he didn't miss it trawling through all of the 'other' posts.

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I did spot this!!!! I'll be honest i have never heard of a rain computer... does sound very promising, someone also mentioned about trying to get someone to bring me an apple mac from america. My singer is american, and going over in the summer... thanks whoever that was!!! Great idea

Quote robinv:

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Quote Exalted Wombat:

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The big question remains - why would anyone in his right mind base a DAW around a portable computer?

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Perhaps, dare i state the obvious, but to be "portable". It's hard lugging a desktop computer around to do recordings in your mates bedroom or in your rehearsal space - or maybe you're in a small space and don't have the room for a throbbing behemoth taking up loads of desk/floor space. Perhaps, like me, you need both so that i can take my music out and perform it - for that i need the laptop to be more reliable than my desktop - and i'm in my right mind most of the time.

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I have 'luckily' been kicked down to a nicely built summer house at the bottom of the garden so my parents dont have to put up with constant drums/racket! The security isn't exactly 'Top class' and so I would refuse to leave a £600 Computer down there. I want to be able to grab the laptop, my guitars and pop down... come back and bring them with me when I'm done.

Quote Sabbs:

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Hi

Unpatched machines using any operating system whether Linux,Windows,Apple's OS are vulnerable to viruses.

Keeping your machine patched, firewall on and an antivirus client whatever the OS is always prudent.

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There have been a lot of similar comments to this. All our computers have the most up-to-date Firewalls, Antivirus software, and the like. This is not an issue for me!

Also, I'm afraid two computers is also out of the question.

Thanks for the advice from everyone! Was never expecting this much advice

Aaron G

Returning to Wombat's big question one more time, there is another rather good reason for basing a DAW on a 'portable' (and I'm assuming what is meant is a laptop and not some little pad): Laptops and notebooks are being offered more frequently with many or all the bells and whistles of those dinosaur desktops. I am planning to buy another laptop within the year that I can dedicate solely to audio, and I was just looking over quite a few that now have 7200rpm drives installed and about 750 gigs of storage. Recall, too, that they can run external drives just as well as desktops for those requiring more space.

I really don't see that it is any kind of issue. I began my trek in personal home digital audio on a nice ASUS laptop. All this time later, I'm still doing just fine, thank you! Besides desktop computers are not only bulky -- they are perceived largely as 'dogs' these days. Not cool. No longer needed.

Cheers!

Quote The Telenator:

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Returning to Wombat's big question one more time, there is another rather good reason for basing a DAW on a 'portable' (and I'm assuming what is meant is a laptop and not some little pad): Laptops and notebooks are being offered more frequently with many or all the bells and whistles of those dinosaur desktops. I am planning to buy another laptop within the year that I can dedicate solely to audio, and I was just looking over quite a few that now have 7200rpm drives installed and about 750 gigs of storage. Recall, too, that they can run external drives just as well as desktops for those requiring more space.

I really don't see that it is any kind of issue. I began my trek in personal home digital audio on a nice ASUS laptop. All this time later, I'm still doing just fine, thank you! Besides desktop computers are not only bulky -- they are perceived largely as 'dogs' these days. Not cool. No longer needed.

Cheers!

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It isn't any kind of issue. A laptop is a great recording machine. Womb is living in the dark ages in computer terms!