Hi there. I'm currently in the process of moving out of my project/home studio and taking over a , relatively well known commercial studio. I was wondering on the cheapest way to kit it out (not worried about things like instruments) but would like a couple of good mic sets, mixers etc to see me through to the point when I want it to be as professional as possible/it used to be. I all ready have monitors and a Roland UA101 sound card (8 in, 8 out) but have been looking at other audio interfaces to provide upto 24 tracks.

Any advice would be great, as there is a lot to do.

Thanks

Best of the joys JohnnieOperator. It's a tough business. But you know that eh?
My advice, dont spend too much. Dont buy anything until you need it. Wait for the client and see what you need then.
As long as you know what your doing, any of the modern recording kit will do. I was having a look at some photos of Joe Meek in his 'studio'. What a dump! He did good things with what he had though. That's the trick really. And dont forget the comfy couch, incase the studio becomes a home from home.

Edited by Airfix (21/05/12 02:10 PM)

ProTools HD-X, combined with Reaper, an AlphaLink for 24 ADDAs and a big and hairy analogue mixer in good nick, like a Soundcraft Series II ( eBay listing )

Quote Airfix:

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Best of the joys JohnnieOperator. It's a tough business. But you know that eh?
My advice, dont spend too much. Dont buy anything until you need it. Wait for the client and see what you need then.
As long as you know what your doing, any of the modern recording kit will do. I was having a look at some photos of Joe Meek in his 'studio'. What a dump! He did good things with what he had though. That's the trick really. And dont forget the comfy couch, incase the studio becomes a home from home.

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Sound advice. I think I get pretty good results with what I have now, so having a proper acoustically treated space will make all the difference I hope. And yes, I know I won't be making any money. I'm still working full-time while I get it sorted. the dream is to make it my only source of income at some point tho, or at least go part time (and live my dream the other part of the time haha)

And Yes I think I will be needing a nice analogue desk, although wondered what experience people have with PC based AES/EBU systems as they look like I get get more Mic pre amp A/D convertors as and when needed or even pickup an old yamaha desk off ebay.

And also how frowned upon is it mixing 'in the box' and I don't generally want a debate (as I know there are pros and cons for both) but would it be acceptable while I'm getting things together? Will most bands care?

Thanks a lot for your response.

Edited by JohnnieOperator (21/05/12 02:42 PM)

Quote johnnieoperator:

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And also how frowned upon is it mixing 'in the box' and I don't generally want a debate (as I know there are pros and cons for both) but would it be acceptable while I'm getting things together? Will most bands care?

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It all depends on where your work and clients are coming from. Some wont touch you without a desk where as other projects may be better suited to ITB working. The most important thing is bringing the work in. If you have a plan, clients at the ready and bands and artists wanting to book your studio then most of the decisions will be straight forward and self explanatory. I personally work in the box with UAD 2 with some analogue summing when needed for a project. That said, my colleagues studio runs Pro-Tools with an Amek Desk and without their desk they would loose all of their business. You'll also be competing with other studios so look at whats happening near you and and be 'better' or 'different'.

I personally think most bands (if that's who you're aiming for) will want to see a desk. Not that they really know exactly how it works and what can be achieved in the box! That and a sofa.

You'll need a single audio interface that can handle more than 8 tracks as running multiple interfaces often won't work. At the very least you will also need some kind of transport control and preferably a control surface for your computer. A couple of decent computer screens will also help - I prefer to show the mixer on one screen and the timeline on another. I'd probably start off with one or two really good mics and a bunch of cheapies. When I was starting off, my mics were often unconventional but they gave me interesting sounds which often worked better than more conventional mics.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

I have a few M audio control surfaces u-33e for instance, and plan on running Lemmur (of Jazz Mutant fame) on an Ipad, so that will handle transport control etc. Main thing is trying to find a desk and audio interface suitable. As I said before I have seen a few of these AES/ebu Yamaha mixers and thought I would be able to expand ins/outs by getting more Mic Pre amps with a/d convertors that I could connect to a PCI AES/EBU card on my PC. Or is there anything like the Presonus Desks that would provide about 16 i/o and USB connectivity, or would you recommend a seperate audio interface, something like my Roland UA 101 would be great, but I don't really want to end up buying addition break out boxes to get to the other inputs as you have to on a lot of them.

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Quote Airfix:

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I was having a look at some photos of Joe Meek in his 'studio'. What a dump! He did good things with what he had though.

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And yes, I know I won't be making any money. I'm still working full-time while I get it sorted. the dream is to make it my only source of income at some point tho, or at least go part time

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Ooops!

1. Joe Meek was then, today is now and you have to make the turkey fly now.

2. Your only source of income? That will just never happen. In fact, you are extremely unlikely to be able to even turn an operative profit. A studio is a tool, like a digger, a kitchen, or a computer. We use tools to do something else. I just bought myself a digger to clean out a couple of ponds, dig a new septic tank and a few other things. I have a kitchen to cook food and heaven knows how many computers to write books, record music, do the bookkeeping, layout CDs and look at young ladies doing naughty things. I also have a studio and one part of what it does is record music for a fee - but it also serves other purposes, such as video shoots, equipment testing and the live room acts as a meeting and conference room.

A studio all on its own as a facility for hire cannot earn a living any more. That is, if it ever did! Mickie Most owned RAK studios, but its job was to record RAK records, Abbey Road was there to record EMI stuff. Air Lindhurst is up for sale because Richard Boote cannot find a profitable symbiotic relationship for the studio with his other businesses.

I once asked Brain Grant, co-owner of Brit Row (P.A. touring company) what his advice for a start-up P.A. company would be. He said "Find your Pink Floyd, now!"

In other words, if you build the studio, you have got the cart - but what will your horse be?

Quote The Red Bladder:

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A studio all on its own as a facility for hire cannot earn a living any more.

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Perhaps I misunderstand, but I think you're exaggerating slightly. There are two small studios here in Norfolk I visit, just an enthusiast with a nice space and some decent kit, charging about £180-£200 per day, in business for years, and doing fine. Those are just the ones I visit. There are many more in Norfolk but I don't know what their profit status is. Here's an example of one of the others -

http://www.purplestudios.co.uk

They've also been going for years. They still seem to be functioning. It doesn't have to be Abbey Road.

Yeah I agree...Don't let the cart lead the horse...It is extremely hard to make a profit as a studio, hiring out to clients on the strength of an equipment list or whatever. I'm having problems at the moment because my 'go to' studio, where I had access to a big, amazing sounding live room, booth, huge control room, AMEK desk, 24 channels of ISA pres, PT HD, apogees, mics, outboard, piano, harmonium, amps etc etc for...£100-£150 a day is closing. And when I went to visit another local studio, similar setup, Trident 80B, etc etc for similar money, he told me that he's thinking of winding it up too.

Some might say big surprise, but the fact is that bands just can't afford it at the moment unless they have some sort of investment. And that investment is not going to come from a record label.

The studio should be a tool that you use to deliver work for your clients who pay you as the 'product'. So set it up any way you want. Advertise yourself not your environment. Make some good recordings and use those for promotion.

J

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www.jackruston.com

Yes, I understand your points completely, but this is a labour of love and always has been. Thankfully the space also has 2-3 rehearsal rooms that I will be renting out as a more stable income, and should get me some funds to get nicer equipment too as well as covering a lot of the costs. I will also be leaving my place and moving into my girlfriends as well. And also the old studio that was there seemed not to have a problem making money, and have moved on to greener pastures (larger space). For me I have always had to rent space to practice my trumpet in, so it has always cost me money to make music and I have no problem with that, but as I mentioned, the DREAM is to make it my only source of income, however I am fully aware that probably won't happen.

Quote BJG145:

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Quote The Red Bladder:

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A studio all on its own as a facility for hire cannot earn a living any more.

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Perhaps I misunderstand, but I think you're exaggerating slightly. There are two small studios here in Norfolk I visit, just an enthusiast with a nice space and some decent kit, charging about £180-£200 per day, in business for years, and doing fine. Those are just the ones I visit. There are many more in Norfolk but I don't know what their profit status is. Here's an example of one of the others -

http://www.purplestudios.co.uk

They've also been going for years. They still seem to be functioning. It doesn't have to be Abbey Road.

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There are always exceptions...Some locations work better than others...Lower costs, university towns with a lot of bands, etc etc. But usually it comes back to the people as the product, ie people will pay for someone who is great at what they do. In my experience the vast majority of decent little studios have their startup cash injected 'artifically' and this is never really recouped. The point is that as a technical business plan, where you inject X amount of cash, pay Y amount of bills, and service those and a living wage with Z money coming in, the model just doesn't work. There's almost always money coming from somewhere else initially...People own the building, they inherit a sum that they use to buy the gear, they have another source of income etc etc. That money might not come from outside music, they might be doing great TV composing or library music, or running a rehearsal studio in the same location, but it's unlikely to be coming from simple bookings for the room as a studio.

So the advice to the OP would be not to worry about trying to create some sort of impressive 'gear list'. People don't actually pay you more for that.

J

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www.jackruston.com

Ah we posted at the same time...So you've got a rehearsal setup going on there...That's a useful source of revenue, and it's a model that we see working quite a lot. It has two advantages...Firstly the rehearsal income pays the bills that the studio can not on its own, and secondly the rehearsal studio provides access to bands who feed into the recording studio.

J

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www.jackruston.com

Quote Jack Ruston:

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So the advice to the OP would be not to worry about trying to create some sort of impressive 'gear list'. People don't actually pay you more for that.

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+1

The room, the instruments (piano, organ, etc.) back-line, lighting, feel, food, off-street parking, a swimming pool, whatever - that's what customers want. Engineers look for gear, but they ain't customers!

Thanks again for the messages guys. So perhaps i will try and record a couple of bands for little or no money so I can get a catalog of material together to show what good work I do with the tools I have and use that to entice in clients. And what your basically saying is the product is what the studio and I create , which could quite possibly more than the some of all parts! and that's inevitably what they pay for. Throw in a nice atmosphere and people will come back.

A big hairy desk definitely impresses the punters. It does not even have to work properly, just use the direct outs from the mic-pres and do the mixing in the box.

It doesn't even matter which DAW you use, most musicians wouldn't know the difference between ProTools, Reaper and a plate of mince.

BS beats brains!

Yerp, +1.

Big hairy analogue mixers are nice and intimidating too, which tends to scare people off asking you to do things as 'you know best'. And even fully working ones can be had for peanuts these days! They are also genuinely useful too, as long as they at least 'half work' — for preamps (as TRB says), monitor mixes, and as attractive if slightly enormous monitor controllers.

Cheers!

Chris

Haha, sounds like you've all ready seen my dynamix desk! It's big and hairy (it is from the 80s). And rusty, but sounds okay. No sends or inserts per track tho and for some reason it has the wierdest eq's on it - they don't cut out the frequencies fully when you turn them all the way down. Anyway certainly looks 'vintage' and intimidating!

Quote The Red Bladder:

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Air Lindhurst is up for sale because Richard Boote cannot find a profitable symbiotic relationship for the studio with his other businesses.

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Not quite true. The real reason is rather different to that.

Well, he is developing other businesses, including his digital distribution and other things and the sale of Air would be a nice lump of fresh and fribbling cash. The studio is said to be profitable, but I have bought and sold businesses myself and I have been involved in the buying and selling of businesses of others - and I have never heard of someone selling a money machine!

I once sold a potential money machine at the height of the dot-com boom and guess what! It wasn't! But I still trousered the money and ran!

Right now, most businesses are hanging onto cash, as they are very nervous about what is going to happen. The banks have been told to have larger cash reserves, so they are less able to lend - and of course, they too need more cash to cover possible future difficulties.

If a business needs extra funds for investment, it can either go to the banks (not too easy right now!) or they can look at their least profitable activity and their most capital intensive activity and if they happen to be one and the same, sell it!