What's this Cookie Control thing popping up at the bottom of my screen? It just appeared today, and only on this site. It's quite annoying. Something SOS has implemented, or somebody else?

I'm getting it too, using a windows machine in work.

Microsoft have pumped-out numerous security upgrades today... probably something to do with them...

I'm on XP SP3 (on this machine) and am also getting that pop-up... or was until I 'OK'd' it.

Mac Safari and I got it.

Looks like a site gadget to let people ok the use of cookies...

I suspect it's part of the new EU requirement for positive agreement from users before cookies can be set.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

I got this too. I often log in and read things without a reply but tonight I thought I was banned! Not good.

I just thought my computer had started to monitor (and comment on) my biscuit intake...

Quote desmond:

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I just thought my computer had started to monitor (and comment on) my biscuit intake...

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Funny- I'm on Safari now, on Lion.
No message!
Weird.

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Cubase, guitars.

Folderol wins the prize!

The new EU legislation comes into force shortly (26th May) that requires all websites to display a notice asking users to decide whether they wish to accept cookies or not. Not accepting them will seriously affect the experience of using the site, of course. Virtually every commercial site in the world uses cookies for log in control, shop functions and site statistics, so it's likely that this new regulations are going to create a total mess for everyone's surfing experiences!

The relevant code was added to the SOS website today (22 May).

We have also added a page to the Information Section of this site explaining what cookies we use and why we use them:

http://www.soundonsound.com/information/Cookies.php


Hugh


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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

My work PC (IE7 :groan:) comes up with a blocked content banner and the little orange box thing in the right hand corner displays no text, only showing the "I am happy with this" button and the "Read more" button. Clicking read more shows no text either, other than a line in orange which refers to cookies.

Displaying the blocked content doesn't resolve it, but clicking the "I'm happy with this" box does.

I don't know what I'm happy with though! Although as detailed by Hugh above, I had guessed it was this new cookie legislation.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Not sure I'd describe it as 'nanny state' stuff, Hugh — obliging companies to get express permission from people to put files on their computer seems quite reasonable to me!

I've deleted that comment, but I still don't agree with the way the regulations have been framed and I don't think they will achieve what was intended.

It seems to me that writing temporary, legitimate, benign and essential cookie files to a user's computer is not unreasonable. Indeed, most sites won't work properly without it.

Asking for permission everytime you open a new website is unreasonable and ineffective because there is no independent information, let alone verification, as to whether the cookie request is legitimate and safe or not. And once you've said yes, there's nothign to stop the website posting malicious cookies anyway! The process does nothing constructive at all...

So most people will either just click yes without thinking and carry on as before, but with the impediment of having to click an annoying pop-up first, or they'll click no and then wonder why the site doesn't seem to work properly!

The regulations should be about policing and preventing the writing of inappropriate and harmful or invasive cookie files.... but that would be very difficult, so they've made a fuss about being seen to do something, when in fact they've done nothing useful at all!

....

Just my senile old views, though... Carry on!

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

For anyone who is interested, there is more information about the EU directive 'Cookie Law' and the impact on the SOS website, including how the new Cookie Control popup works, here

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

The whole thing is pointless and stupid, because nearly all sites are not hosted in the EU.

Yes, but according to the site below that doesn't mean the new law doesn't affect those:

http://eucookiedirective.com/hosting-outside-eu/

Looking at that link has made me want chocolate chip cookies...

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Yes, I despise this new cookie law. Badly written, ineffectual, and technically pointless. In fact it's SO vaguely written that I've seen many 'interpretations' of the legislation already. (see JISC vs ICO etc).

I'm waiting to see what the BBC does before changing my 200+ odd websites

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Web Design ~
Drum Studio

Quote Kwackman:

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Funny- I'm on Safari now

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It's okay for some. I'll be lucky to get a weekend in Blackpool this year.

Anyroad up, any plans or considerations from on high for mobile users? I'm on Opera mini on which the site works as well as before (limited but with workarounds) but there's no sign of the "click to accept" button. As you can see the PC is fine but as I'm trying to keep my DAW laptop off the net the lion's share of my browsing is on the phone. I've had a run through of other browsers but the effect is the same on all.

I'll keep you posted if this turns out to be an SOS only problem.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

So far this seems to be an SOS only thang. This is of course due to your dilligent and prompt action. How commendably professional (seethe!).

It would appear as though I'm on my own with this as well. Is no-one else having issues with Android? Looks like it'll be 'so long' til the phone contract's up.

How will you manage?

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Thanks for the feedback. We're looking into it...

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

I'm rather disappointed to see SOS bending over to this stupid EU law. I won't be bothering with it on my websites, its stupid, pointless and will only confuse people.

The ICO have announced that they will audit the top 50 UK sites and then others on a random basis, as well as any reported to them by users. Given the prominence and hit rates of the SOS site, it's really not something we can risk ignoring.

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Quote shufflebeat:

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So far this seems to be an SOS only thang. This is of course due to your dilligent and prompt action. How commendably professional (seethe!).

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I've just noticed that Southampton City Council have something similar so SOS aren't the only ones.

James.

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JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
http://www.jrpmusic.net

Unfortunately I have to deal with this stuff on a daily basis. End of the day this is a directive that you must follow, if not you can be fined. Any site that does not comply could have real issues. Every client I have visited in the past three months is working on a solution for this and at the moment a little pop up seems to be the preferred way of dealing with it (one client was going to get rid of cookies all together until someone pointed out that the shopping cart may have issues if you didn’t have a session id!)

As to the issue of reasonability well I’m sure there are many laws we think wrong…..

Interestingly all this stuff was due to go live years ago until they realised that the Spanish and Italians had “opt in” and “opt out” translated the wrong way around and they had to start the whole process again as all the votes were invalid. Don’t you love poloticians…..

Mmm, nice new phone and OS so back in the room.

However, the whole site is a pain in the little round fellas to navigate in Opera Mini and the HTC stock browser doesn't ask me to approve cookies.

Can anyone explain or is this just the wild west?

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

We are aware of the difficulty of navigating the site from a phone. In our defence, it wasn't designed for that application...... But the revamped site -- which is getting closer with each passing day -- definitely is. I'm afraid we need to ask for your patience on that one.

Regarding the cookie request on the HTC, I don't understand that. It appeared on my HTC phone we we introduced it a few weeks ago, although I did have to scroll down and right to find it!

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

BT/Yahoo seem to have cracked this!

When I log out/in to a different email address* There is a small note under the "Keep me signed in" box to the effect "EU Law: By signing in I agree that Yahoo may set up cookies on my browser..."

So, do it once, no annoying popups?

*Note. Although I have been with TalkTalk for almost a year now I continue to use my BT usernames and passwords. Neither BT nor TT seemed at all bothered by this. Should they be?

Dave.

Quote ef37a:

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So, do it once, no annoying popups?

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The same applies here. Once you have agreed to cookies you don't get hassled anymore (on that computer) -- because we write a cookie to that computer to say you've agreed!

Hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

wow. two things: the opt-in / out option explained quite clearly what it was and why it was there, and i've seen this on DOZENS of sites, not just SoS.

i will admit that i was more than a little familiar with the "cookie law" because of my job, but i would have thought more people would understand what's going on and why SoS doesn't have a choice to comply. tbh the method chosen here was pretty unintrusive and convenient, so why people are complaining i don't really know!

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

People like to complain. it's a natural thing.

There's another parallel thread complaining about this topic here too

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Well, I finally had a look to see what the SOS site actually does with cookies. Answer: not that much, or at least, not much to create issues complying with the new law.

Firstly, as soon as I browse the homepage, Google Analytics cookies are set. This happens before I see the "cookie popup" box, let alone have a chance to decide whether to give consent. Sadly, (and this is a problem faced by many many sites -- cookie-based analytics are very widely used), it's hard to see how this popup approach can comply with the letter of the law, which requires consent before cookies are set.

Analytics cookies don't qualify for any of the exemptions (e.g cookies necessary for the provision of the service). However, from a privacy point-of-view, analytics cookies used only to generate anonymised statistics are one of the less intrusive types of cookie. This is very likely why the Information Commissioner has stated these are unlikely to be a priority for any formal enforcement action.

Here, I would advise documenting their use, in a "How We Use Cookies" type page, with a link somewhere visible (preferably not buried in some privacy policy at the bottom of the page), and explaining how to opt out (via the Google Analytics blocker). That's what many sites are doing for analyics cookies, whilst we wait and see how this pans out. This in accordance with the very recent guidance from the Article 29 Working Party which states:

"the Working Party considers that first party analytics cookies are not likely to create a privacy risk when they are strictly limited to first party aggregated statistical purposes and when they are used by websites that already provide clear information about these cookies in their privacy policy as well as adequate privacy safeguards. Such safeguards are expected to include a user friendly mechanism to opt-out from any data collection and comprehensive anonymization mechanisms that are applied to other collected identifiable information such as IP addresses.".

There’s even a suggestion that when the Directive is next revised: "the European legislator might appropriately add a third exemption criterion to consent for cookies that are strictly limited to first party anonymized and aggregated statistical purposes".


Anyway, so much for analytic cookies. Back to browsing the SOS site. When I log in, I get some cookies. This is necessary for provision of the service, so doesn't need consent. However, if my login is to be "remembered" (by setting a persistent cookie), then it would be advisable to obtain consent, which can be done simply be labelling the login box with the words "Uses Cookies" (with a link to aforementioned cookie page). Where a user ticks the "remember me" box having clearly had the role of the cookie in that process highlighted, the consent requirement is satisfied. (This is known as "implied consent", as the user has not explicitly clicked something saying "I want cookies").

And that's about it. Unlikely to be a need for big green popups or anything!

Perhaps there's other parts of the site that use cookies for different things. But they can mostly be dealt with quite happily, again without recourse to popups.

Cheers

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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People like to complain.

hugh

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Cheers for that.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Quote chris...:

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Well, I finally had a look to see what the SOS site actually does with cookies. Answer: not that much, or at least, not much to create issues complying with the new law.

Firstly, as soon as I browse the homepage, Google Analytics cookies are set. This happens before I see the "cookie popup" box, let alone have a chance to decide whether to give consent. Sadly, (and this is a problem faced by many many sites -- cookie-based analytics are very widely used), it's hard to see how this popup approach can comply with the letter of the law, which requires consent before cookies are set.

Analytics cookies don't qualify for any of the exemptions (e.g cookies necessary for the provision of the service). However, from a privacy point-of-view, analytics cookies used only to generate anonymised statistics are one of the less intrusive types of cookie. This is very likely why the Information Commissioner has stated these are unlikely to be a priority for any formal enforcement action.

Here, I would advise documenting their use, in a "How We Use Cookies" type page, with a link somewhere visible (preferably not buried in some privacy policy at the bottom of the page), and explaining how to opt out (via the Google Analytics blocker). That's what many sites are doing for analyics cookies, whilst we wait and see how this pans out. This in accordance with the very recent guidance from the Article 29 Working Party which states:

"the Working Party considers that first party analytics cookies are not likely to create a privacy risk when they are strictly limited to first party aggregated statistical purposes and when they are used by websites that already provide clear information about these cookies in their privacy policy as well as adequate privacy safeguards. Such safeguards are expected to include a user friendly mechanism to opt-out from any data collection and comprehensive anonymization mechanisms that are applied to other collected identifiable information such as IP addresses.".

There’s even a suggestion that when the Directive is next revised: "the European legislator might appropriately add a third exemption criterion to consent for cookies that are strictly limited to first party anonymized and aggregated statistical purposes".


Anyway, so much for analytic cookies. Back to browsing the SOS site. When I log in, I get some cookies. This is necessary for provision of the service, so doesn't need consent. However, if my login is to be "remembered" (by setting a persistent cookie), then it would be advisable to obtain consent, which can be done simply be labelling the login box with the words "Uses Cookies" (with a link to aforementioned cookie page). Where a user ticks the "remember me" box having clearly had the role of the cookie in that process highlighted, the consent requirement is satisfied. (This is known as "implied consent", as the user has not explicitly clicked something saying "I want cookies").

And that's about it. Unlikely to be a need for big green popups or anything!

Perhaps there's other parts of the site that use cookies for different things. But they can mostly be dealt with quite happily, again without recourse to popups.

Cheers

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Cheers for that.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".

Sounds like, as so often, the Civil Service is being a lot more sensible than the politicians.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Sounds like, as so often, the Civil Service is being a lot more sensible than the politicians.

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Quite possibly.

In the time since the legislation was passed, the ICO has been struggling to produce realistic guidance that can actually be implemented, without undue impact on most sites making reasonable uses of cookies, whilst balancing the privacy issues.

This has now, (finally!) pretty much been achieved. I say finally - if we'd had the current ICO guidance a year ago, things could have loads easier

All that said, those using cookies for more privacy-infringing purposes e.g tracking / behavioural advertising may find themselves with an uphill struggle, as for those uses of cookies, consent may well not be forthcoming.

Which was exactly the intention of the legislators.

However, what I fear the legislators may have missed, is that some sites which are currently free to access (paid for by targetted advertising) may not be able to remain free in future.

I even had this in my day job recently, and quite frankly I have chosen not to post (hurrah many might say) but I will not be tracked, hence my lack of mobile phone, lack of facebook and twitter and online bank accounts. My only problem is that Feline still thinks I am Johnny H. Hopefully with the new lack of privacy cookie thing he will be able to see that this is just in his mind.

Quote atechnogirl:

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I even had this in my day job recently, and quite frankly I have chosen not to post (hurrah many might say) but I will not be tracked, hence my lack of mobile phone, lack of facebook and twitter and online bank accounts. My only problem is that Feline still thinks I am Johnny H. Hopefully with the new lack of privacy cookie thing he will be able to see that this is just in his mind.

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You can tell a man he's blind but it won't make him see.

Can I have more cookies on my account, please!

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Google less; read more!

Quote RegressiveRock:

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Can I have more cookies on my account, please!

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You'll have Jamie Oliver kicking the door in with careless talk like that.

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Ohm's Law states, "Your PA isn't as powerful as you think it is".