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Phil Aitman



Joined: 25/05/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Ye Olde tiny Cube Room conundrum....
      #989863 - 27/05/12 03:02 PM
First of all I'll start by saying I know this room is rubbish and will never be great as a mixing room no matter what I do. This is why i have some AKG 701's coupled with TB-Isone and a VRM box for checking. What I would like to know is if there are some cost effective methods of Improvement to make it a better room for mix checking and cross referencing.

The room is 2.06m deep x 2.26m wide x 2.61 high. There is a small single Window to the right of the 2.26 wall behind the right monitor. The room also houses 2 fully stocked book cases one wall length half height and one 1/3rd of the wall wide back left.

I did plan to get some Room EQ wizard plots to attach but have been scuppered by it's (Java's) current issues with Firewire interfaces on OSX.

The book cases and size leave little to play with in terms of layout.

Is it worth buying some foam traps ( maybe like these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Acoustic-Foam-3ft-915mm-Bass-Traps-AFBT02-Prof essional-Studio-Treatment-/320908701014?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4ab7a62d56#ht_7 246wt_1156 ) and some more broadband tiles. Or is it really not worth bothering with and living with the phones for evermore?

What I do also have is IK ARC which came as a by product of a bargain T-Racks Delux purchase in a bundle.
Would? this in conjunction with a bit of treatment help. The SOS review of it is good, other pro views on Gearslutz not so...
I fully appreciate I won't get good, but as near to it would be nice.

So
Answer a.. Give up on it, it's money pit.
Answer b.. A Little money and ARC may make a decent improvement as long as I don't expect Miracles.

Oh and Sorry to say work and family mean building my own bass traps falls into the time is more precious than money category.

Oh and does anyone have the moon on a stick I'd quite like that too


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22065
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Ye Olde tiny Cube Room conundrum.... new [Re: Phil Aitman]
      #989872 - 27/05/12 04:17 PM
It's almost impossible to get a small cube room to work well at low frequencies, and there will always be the 'hole in the middle of the room' effect as far as the bass response is concerned. But you should edefinitely treat the mirror points with broadband absorbers to minimise reflections that destroy stereo imaging and colour the midrange through comb filtering effects.

Adding as many bass traps as you physically can -- along the vertical wall corners and wall-ceiling boundaries -- will undoubtedly help, but don't expect perfet results. Personally, I'd do it.

Digital room correction systems are useful for adding some polish, but they are inherently limited in what they can do. I'm not a huge fan, but recognise that they can make a useful improvement in many instances, particualrly in terms of stereo imaging and midrange clarity. But it is vital to get the room as near to right as you can with old-fashioned mechanical means first to give them a chance of doing something useful.

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Mike Stranks
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Joined: 03/01/03
Posts: 3832
Loc: Oxford, UK
Re: Ye Olde tiny Cube Room conundrum.... new [Re: Phil Aitman]
      #989890 - 27/05/12 05:24 PM
I'm in almost the same situation m'self - my room is a 2.3 metre cube which has to double as a family office/store. Add to that two large windows and two doors and the problems just get bigger...

I've put in a fair bit of acoustic foam - 4" thick saw-tooth in the main - and bass trapping along the wall/ceiling boundary behind my seat.

I use cans for most mixing/mastering decisions - strictly for fun with things musical - but do have some speakers (I won't grace them with the word 'monitors', although their manufacturers do!) The speakers are small so don't have much bass response about them so that helps with some of the bass problems. Having put in this treatment in a staged sort of way I find that my mixes transfer pretty well to other environments - cheap music systems, car, home hi-fi etc.

So as Hugh has said it's definitely worth doing IMHO.

Hannibal Acoustics - with whom I have no links at all - do some bass-traps that can be placed against walls (although they recommend corners). It might be worth having a look at some of those...

HTH. Mike


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Phil Aitman



Joined: 25/05/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Re: Ye Olde tiny Cube Room conundrum.... new [Re: Phil Aitman]
      #989894 - 27/05/12 06:44 PM
Thanks for the quick response Hugh and Mike,
My intention with ARC was certainly a final polish
Broadband tiles on the reflection points no problem. I guess the next question comes to bass trapping.
Given the room size and the fact there is no floor corner space, I'll be looking at soffit/wall corner types. Can't stretch to GIK soffit traps, so is foam any good at all or is it false economy?
All reasonable priced reccomendations accepted I will of course give Hannibal Acoustics a look.

Edited by Phil Aitman (27/05/12 06:46 PM)


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22065
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Ye Olde tiny Cube Room conundrum.... new [Re: Phil Aitman]
      #989910 - 27/05/12 08:51 PM
Foam is better than nothing, but most foam 'bass traps' tend to be quite small (as in not very deep). So if you're going down the foam road make sure you pick the bigger deeper alternatives. I think DIY rockwool traps are probably better if you have the time and inclination.

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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sheggs



Joined: 16/12/08
Posts: 149
Loc: Bradford, UK
Re: Ye Olde tiny Cube Room conundrum.... new [Re: Phil Aitman]
      #990332 - 30/05/12 07:42 AM
Quote Phil Aitman:

Thanks for the quick response Hugh and Mike,
My intention with ARC was certainly a final polish
Broadband tiles on the reflection points no problem. I guess the next question comes to bass trapping.
Given the room size and the fact there is no floor corner space, I'll be looking at soffit/wall corner types. Can't stretch to GIK soffit traps, so is foam any good at all or is it false economy?
All reasonable priced reccomendations accepted I will of course give Hannibal Acoustics a look.




Like Phil says you could make some DIY corner traps out of rockwool but with this type of room the more absorption you can get in there the better

--------------------
David Shevyn General Manager GIK Acoustics Europe
www.gikacoustics.co.uk


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Phil Aitman



Joined: 25/05/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Re: Ye Olde tiny Cube Room conundrum.... new [Re: Phil Aitman]
      #990573 - 31/05/12 09:20 AM
Well as it happens nothing goes smoothly in this world at the moment.
The Room is on hold as I'll be working away quite a lot over the next few months.

So the Money I had to one side for some treatment will be going towards some new closed back headphones. Unfortunately my much loved AKG 701's don't have enough isolation for hotel bars and public places, I only want to carry one set of phones so the urgent shopping spree is on.

I'll take this to another more appropriate thread but the AKG 550's are looking damn good on paper for closed backs.
http://www.headphone.com/buildAGraph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=3571&graphID%5 B1%5D=703&graphID%5B2%5D=2371&graphID%5B3%5D=&graphType=0&buttonSelection= Compare+Headphones


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Phil Aitman



Joined: 25/05/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Re: Ye Olde tiny Cube Room conundrum.... new [Re: Phil Aitman]
      #992621 - 13/06/12 12:18 PM
Hi,
After a week I'm back for a couple of weeks before heading off again. I've managed to get REQW To work now.
The measurement file is here if anyone wants to look at the horror https://www.box.com/s/983824070e8206f6b017
Seems odd is says I have a null between 2 and 3k i can't corroborate that running a sweep. Mic used was the one from IK Arc which looks like a fairly standard measurement mike, like the much recommended Behringer one.

I do think the best course is to either buy some traps if I can find quality V price in the right sizes or make some custom to suit the room. Measuring the corners the Maximum width I can do it 12-14" wide, which will reduce the effectiveness but I also need to able to fit in the room


PS AKG K550's appear very good after a week of use.


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