I have mixed down a couple of songs and I find that when the vocal is heard the backing fades away into the background and then 'pumps' forward in the mix when vocal is quiet
I have some compression on the vocals (4 tracks) and a further compressor on the master channel
Where should I look to correct the problem?
Thanks in advance

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Sam

Hi - Master channel - sounds like the lead vocal is louder than the track and hence pulls down the level when it's in

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Mac Pro, Logic Pro, lots of software and 17 hard drives!

+1. Remove the master bus compressor and see if the problem goes away!

As a general rule, compressors across the mix shouldn't be doing a huge amount of gain reduction — maybe 3 - 4dB tops, and even then only during the loud bits. Check your compressor's gain-reduction meter, I suspect the threshold is set too low and that's why you're hearing this pumping effect.

Cheers!

Chris

It sounds like your vocals are balanced pretty loud compared to the rest of the instrumentation, so when they come in your mix bus compressor is having to turn the overall level down. When the vocal stops it releases the gain reduction and you hear the backing come back to the front.

It might be better to bypass the mix bus compressor and rebalance things to get a decent initial balance, then switch it back in and adjust the mix to taste. You might also want to compress the vocal bus separately first before adding to the main mix, and check your bus compressor threshold and ratio settings. Threshold should be fairly high and ratio fairly low -- you might have these the other way around!

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Thanks peeps ... I will check those points out
I am presently involved in recording a Stones number 'Angie' which has some louder passages .... do you consider that I should maybe record the vocal with a little compression at that stage? and if so, what would you suggest as a threshold and a ratio?

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Sam


Edited by whis4ey (07/06/12 08:40 AM)

not sure what the other guys would say, but i wouldn't record vocals with a compressor on the way in as you will not be able to change the compression settings later.

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Logic 9, Studio One 2, Protools 8 LE

Quote whis4ey:

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...do you consider that I should maybe record the vocal with a little compression at that stage? and if so, what would you suggest as a threshold and a ratio?

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The fact that your asking the question suggests that you shouldn't use compression at the recording stage.

Recording with compression cannot be undone. If you mess it up there is no way to fix it. Whereas, if you add compression at the mix stage, you can always take it off again, or back off the settings.

If you really know what your doing with a compressor, and you have a good idea of what settings you need and how the compressor will behave, then recording with compression on the way in can be useful, especially if you want to use hardware.

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www.Lozjackson.com

Quote whis4ey:

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do you consider that I should maybe record the vocal with a little compression at that stage?

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It's a unneccessary risk with absolutely nothing to be gained.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote:

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If you really know what your doing with a compressor

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Wouldn't that be nice
I don't think I will live long enough to be ever able to say that

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Sam

Quote whis4ey:

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Quote:

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If you really know what your doing with a compressor

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Wouldn't that be nice
I don't think I will live long enough to be ever able to say that

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Keep playing about with compressors, experimenting, listening to how the compressor behaves.. also, search for, and read as many articles on compression as you can find... Eventually you'll get it... everything will fall into place - you just need to learn what to listen for.

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www.Lozjackson.com

I'm always a bit dubious about using overall compression. The worst example I ever heard was voice, guitar and drums. The singer was continually being ducked by both the drummer and the guitarist. Shame really, it would have been a good song otherwise.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote whis4ey:

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I have mixed down a couple of songs and I find that when the vocal is heard the backing fades away into the background and then 'pumps' forward in the mix when vocal is quiet
I have some compression on the vocals (4 tracks) and a further compressor on the master channel
Where should I look to correct the problem?
Thanks in advance

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The master compressor is doing this.

Did you add it because the mix sounded bad without compression, or because "you always put a compressor on the output bus"?

I suggest you take ALL the compressors away and consider where they are really needed. If anywhere.

thats good advice from wombat

sometimes, especially when things are sounding wrong, it's useful to start again with no processing rather than try and fix a heavily processed track....then add things in gently....and take them away, and re-add, just to make sure the process (comp/eq etc) is actually doing something musically useful to the track.

and less compression is usually a good thing.....i think we're (well i am) a bit guilty of over-egging the compressors because we think we should use one everywhere, rather than letting the music breathe a little.....you can always use volume automation to balance levels....a little more time consuming, but often a better way!

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http://soundcloud.com/seaapes

To Wombat and Wease .... yes I am finding that out. I took everything away and started again, and I now haver a reasonable finished article with less compression in place
I generally use the final compressor to try to ensure that all of my tracks are nearly at the same volume for playback purposes. I am slowly getting there

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Sam

Quote whis4ey:

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I generally use the final compressor to try to ensure that all of my tracks are nearly at the same volume for playback purposes.

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I suggest you get out of this habit.

Watch the master levels as you mix and keep them at a consistent, sensible level. By adding a compressor to try to do this job for you you'll always be at the mercy of that one element of the mix that's poking over the top, causing the mix to pump in exactly the way you've already experienced.Your job is to ensure that eveything in the mix is playing together nicely and adding a compressor as a 'catch-all' won't help your judgement, or the end result.

To level things up for playback there's nothing wrong with moving the master fader, as long as you've left sensible headroom.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.