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Band



Joined: 19/08/07
Posts: 45
Opt-In only ? new
      #991795 - 07/06/12 01:51 PM
Why is the site cookie control opt-in only ?

Are you trying to force your subscribers to accept third-party tracking by underhand methods ?


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22081
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: Band]
      #991796 - 07/06/12 02:00 PM
If you don't opt-in by clicking the accept button, the cookies aren't employed... There is no need for an opt-out button.

Of course, without the cookies many site functions will no longer work.

It's all explained HERE along with an explanation of what Cookies we use and which come from legitimate third parties.

There's nothing underhand going on, and we have followed 'industry best practice' in implementing these new (but poorly thought out) EU requirements.

There is another thread in the Forum Feeback section discussing this here

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Band



Joined: 19/08/07
Posts: 45
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #991841 - 07/06/12 05:51 PM
Really ?

Clicking the opt-in button makes the pop-up disappear.
Where is the button to opt-out and stop it popping up EVERY time I visit the site ?

It smacks of cheap tricks to get unwary users to just give up and opt-in.

Why not just have two buttons, clearly labelled, opt-in or opt-out ?
Or a page similar to the one you click through to and the ability to opt in or out for each type of cookie ?

No wonder people have to resort to cookie-blocking addons with cheap tricks like this.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22081
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: Band]
      #991843 - 07/06/12 06:11 PM
Quote Band:

Really ?




Yes...

Quote:

Clicking the opt-in button makes the pop-up disappear.




Yes, and at the same time it records your agreement to accept cookies. This is stored in two new cookies as described in that page I provided the link for above:

Quote:

civicAllowCookies: A cookie to tell us whether you opted to use cookies or not. Yes, it's a bizarre EU cookie law! You can delete this cookie yourself if ever you wish to revoke the use of cookies on our site.

civicShowCookieIcon: Tells our site whether to show you the popup asking you to allow cookies. We hide the icon completely once you have accepted so as to avoid annoying you.





Quote:

Where is the button to opt-out and stop it popping up EVERY time I visit the site ?




There isn't one.

It is a legal requirement to request your agreement to accept cookies whenever you open a web page that uses cookies as an inherent part of its working. If you click the 'accept' button then that agreement is logged (with a cookie) and further request boxes are not shown.

If you don't click 'accept' then the request has to be re-sent every time you open a page here because every page uses cookies by default, and we have, by law, to ask you if you will accept their use each time. It's madness, I know, but blame the Euro-politicians, not us!

Quote:

It smacks of cheap tricks to get unwary users to just give up and opt-in.




Sorry you feel like that. I think it is a silly piece of EU legislation, but we have to comply with the law. Obviously we would prefer you to accept cookies because they are necessary for the way our website works -- like the vast majority of similar websites.

There is no risk on accepting cookies from the SOS site. I can assure you that the cookies we use are all completely safe and appropriate, and they are clearly explained in that page I provided the link for.

Quote:

Why not just have two buttons, clearly labelled, opt-in or opt-out ?




Because the only way to log that opt-in/opt-out decision would be by using a cookie... but by opting out we aren't allowed to write a cookie to log your preference!

Quote:

No wonder people have to resort to cookie-blocking addons with cheap tricks like this.




It's not a cheap trick, and you'll find exactly the same situation with all websites that have complied with this new EU legislation. Whether you choose to accept our cookies is your call, obviously. But this site -- like so many -- simply doesn't work very well if you reject cookies as a lot of the functionality ceases to, er..., function.

Clearly, there are some evil cookies about and some unscrupulous websites that make use of them. The SOS website is not one of them. We use cookies only in the way they are intended to help provide key functions of the site, and only for valid and safe purposes. Everything is documented in that page I refered you to earlier, and completely verifiable.

I will pass your comments about alternative pop-up-free pages for opt-out users back to our New Media Director, though.

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3569
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: Band]
      #991948 - 08/06/12 01:18 PM
Quote Band:

Really ?

Clicking the opt-in button makes the pop-up disappear.
Where is the button to opt-out and stop it popping up EVERY time I visit the site ?

It smacks of cheap tricks to get unwary users to just give up and opt-in.

Why not just have two buttons, clearly labelled, opt-in or opt-out ?
Or a page similar to the one you click through to and the ability to opt in or out for each type of cookie ?

No wonder people have to resort to cookie-blocking addons with cheap tricks like this.




Hysterical reaction. How do you cope with real world problems?


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Band



Joined: 19/08/07
Posts: 45
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: johnny h]
      #992088 - 09/06/12 02:21 PM
Well, judging by the number of posts, you spend a great deal of time on here, maybe I should be asking you the same question.

Or is this the type of discussion you wanted ?
Please feel free to add something valid or find somewhere else to troll.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22081
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: Band]
      #992092 - 09/06/12 02:34 PM
Can we try to remain polite and courteous please chaps? Forum rules and all that...

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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johnny h



Joined: 24/07/06
Posts: 3569
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: Band]
      #992103 - 09/06/12 03:49 PM
Quote Band:

Well, judging by the number of posts, you spend a great deal of time on here, maybe I should be asking you the same question.

Or is this the type of discussion you wanted ?
Please feel free to add something valid or find somewhere else to troll.




Who rattled your cage?

I think Hugh explained the cookie situation perfectly well. I was merely noting the rather overblown tinfoil hat reaction was out of proportion. A valid response in my opinion.


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22081
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: johnny h]
      #992114 - 09/06/12 05:05 PM
Quote johnny h:

Who rattled your cage?




You did, muppet!

Quote:

I was merely noting the rather overblown tinfoil hat reaction was out of proportion. A valid response in my opinion.




Perhaps.... but I think it best to drop the subject no, yes?

hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22081
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: Band]
      #992291 - 11/06/12 11:41 AM
Just to wrap this one up, I have had some feedback from our new Media Director on this topic.

He points out that everyone was perfectly happy to use our website without any problems before this EU nonsense came into force. Nothing has changed except our now being required to solicit the users' acceptance of our legitimate use of appropriate cookies -- sonmething they did previously without knowing or caring about it. We have never received any queries or complaints questioning our use of cookies either!

With regard to pop-up free pages, I'm told that such an approach is technically not possible.
The whole SOS site has been developed with cookie technology at its core, as has practically every site in the world. The effort to make a non-cookie site is massive and totally unaffordable, utterly impractical, and quite frankly totally pointless and unnecessary.

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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WiredUp



Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 571
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #992349 - 11/06/12 04:07 PM
Since electing to move out of the UK several years ago I had forgotten how ridiculous the British are to obey stupid laws. EU says jump, the Brits jump while the rest of the EU says "na... feck that rubbish" and ignores it as any sensible nation should do.

Of course I'm not saying you should ignore all laws but this one really is quite silly. SOS, like everyone else should have just ignored it and grown a pair. But no..... scary regulator might come after you and god forbid inform you that you are breaking the law which has been dreamed up by an over paid unelected bunch of morons. Thank god I don't have to put up with this shite anymore.

Here's a perfect example of why I left the UK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MSua3BckY1o


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Hugh RobjohnsAdministrator
SOS Technical Editor


Joined: 25/07/03
Posts: 22081
Loc: Worcestershire
Re: Opt-In only ? [Re: WiredUp]
      #992382 - 11/06/12 08:52 PM
I share your sentiments about ill-conceived Euro policies and regulations, but your suggestion to 'grow a pair' and ignore the ruling is pretty naive. The cost and user-inconvenience of implementing the regulation is small. The risk of significant damage to the business if pursued for ignoring the regulation is high... And the likelihood of being pursued, given the high profile and stats associated with the SOS website, is also high.

It's a no-brainer business decision to play the game. Any other decision would be pointlessly reckless.

Hopefully, the weight of complaints that we and countless other businesses have lodged will eventually ensure common sense prevails. We suspect this regulation will be overturned or updated in the months to come.

The underpinning idea of addressing dubious cookie usage is, obviously, a good one, and the regulation is well meaning... Just badly thought through: the story of Euro-bureaucracy!

Hugh

--------------------
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound


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chris...
active member


Joined: 12/03/03
Posts: 4683
Re: Opt-In only ? new [Re: Hugh Robjohns]
      #992830 - 14/06/12 01:24 PM
Quote Hugh Robjohns:

If you don't click 'accept' then the request has to be re-sent every time you open a page here because every page uses cookies by default, and we have, by law, to ask you if you will accept their use each time. It's madness, I know, but blame the Euro-politicians, not us!



If someone doesn't click 'accept', the site still seems to work, but with the popup repeatedly appearing.

It's perfectly compliant to have a 'no thanks' button, which remembers the user's preference to not have the cookies.

Of course, there is the issue of how to store this preference. Ironically, the most common way is, er, by setting a cookie! However, this cookie is exempt as it's "strictly necessary for the provision of the service requested by the user", so you don't need to obtain explicit consent for it.

Hope that makes (some) sense.


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