Hi,

I thought I'd ask this question out of curiosity.

Is there a pair of speakers that could replace my JBL EON 15G2's and EON 518S subs but still be light weight and under £2000? I would be looking to put 3x vocals, keys, bass, kick drum and sometimes an overhead for the whole kit in venues around 200-300 people.

I've seen the JBL PRX625 and 635's which look like a possibility but these cost around £2300 and weight 27kg which wouldn't be fun mounting on stands on a very regular basis!

Is there anything else out there that could do a similar job but weigh less?

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www.richardpenrose.com

Any thoughts on the JBL PRX 615 vs my rig?

I noticed that these have an SPL of 135dB max compared to the 129dB of my rig.

They are also 2000watts compared to 1800 of my combined system!

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www.richardpenrose.com

I've had pretty good experiences with the QSC K12's yes a sub would enhance there performance but give them a demo in store see if you can put them up against your current setup.

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/speakers/k_series/K_series_K12.php

Of course if you did decide to get the matching k sub then it has castor wheels attached which might make life a little easier.

If you want something smaller, louder and sounds better look out for some used d&b E9's with E15 subs.... your need around £2000 - £2500 but your NEVER look back or loose money buying them.

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

Thanks for the replies guys.

I'm guessing the 15" JBL PRX 615's would be able to cope with bass and kick drum better than the QSC K12's? I'll try and audition these at some point!

The D&R rigs have always been on my dream list but these would also need amps to drive the speakers putting the cost well out of my budget! Also I am purely looking at one pair of speakers without subs.

The JBL PRX 615M's got a good review in last months SOS so I'm wondering how they would stack up next to my rig with the EON 518s subs?

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www.richardpenrose.com

If your just looking for a one box system then the RCF 725a IS the box to buy and they sound like they have a active sub under them lol

Crazy box ! and worth every penny

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

I heard the RCF 715a and that was bass light compared to the EON 315's that I A/B 'd in a store!?

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www.richardpenrose.com

They are a beast and having played with most active tops / subs the 725a is stunning and like a said they sound like there's a sub in the room

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

Quote TSH-Tim:

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They are a beast and having played with most active tops / subs the 725a is stunning and like a said they sound like there's a sub in the room

---

Thanks Tim. Have you compared them to the JBL PRX 615M's?

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www.richardpenrose.com

Not side by side but i have used both yes the RCF wins hands down.

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

I am probably a bit of a dinosaur compared to most here, but I would say any decent wooden box would be better than what you have.

I dont use any digital processing or self powered boxes at all. I have tried most of them. Only just came back to sound after a 10 year breke and built a system exactly the same way as I did 15 years ago.

As soon as word got out I got booked up till the end of the year.

Now I am regularly getting the punters coming up to me and saying that tonight was the best sound they had heard from that band at that venue(which i can never remember happening in the past. Plastic may sound "nice" it may sound "big" but frankly suffers severerly in a comparison with a properly setup wooden box system.

I did try QSC K12, (Quite nice)but I could hear the processing fighting to stop the thing exploding at high levels. The only way you would get 1000w out of one is to set it on fire!

Of course that would be heavier and more complex than your current system.

New stuff *may* be lighter and cheaper but there is a price for that.

Frankly speaker tech has hardly changed for the better since the early 80's.

I imagine that should stir up the troops a bit

I can see what your saying but speaker technology and amp technology has come along way in the last 10 years.....

Some people dont like DSP but there are many many pro's that out weigh the small cons that come with using DSP in speakers & amps.

Just look at d&b Audio.... stunning

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

Quote Falconhell:

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I am probably a bit of a dinosaur compared to most here, but I would say any decent wooden box would be better than what you have.

I dont use any digital processing or self powered boxes at all. I have tried most of them. Only just came back to sound after a 10 year breke and built a system exactly the same way as I did 15 years ago.
....
Frankly speaker tech has hardly changed for the better since the early 80's.

I imagine that should stir up the troops a bit

---

Yep, a LOT of overgeneralisations in that.

It is true that speaker enclosure design has only shifted so much in that time frame, and the classic enclosure design engineers are slowly being substituted out for DSP engineers(In other words speaker manufacturers are depending more on DSP than proper enclosure design as it is cheaper, not across the board, but enough so that it makes a difference). However you do imply that speakers(And by this I mean the driver and enclosure together) today don't sound much different from those in the 80s which is very much not true. Some designs from the 90s are still in use, but almost none that I know of from the 80s with the exception of maybe some clair bros systems, and for good reason. There just isn't to much comparison in general.

All this being said, when you get proper enclosure design combined with the DSP you can get some truly fantastic results that didn't exist in the 80s in any way shape or form(And really wasn't seen to often in the 90s). These include the top of the line solutions from Meyer and d&B audiotechnik for example, but you also get things like the digitally steerable line arrays and other solutions from Duran, Renkus Heinz, etc.

So speaker technology has hardly stood still.

Seablade

MLA is the next thing everybody will be copying

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

Hi,

Thought I'd do a quick bump for this thread. The JBL EON rig I have is sounding nice but I don't want to have to keep carrying big subs around by myself.

An option that I hadn't come across before is the Yamaha DXR15 speakers.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/live_sound/speakers/active_speakers/dxr/dxr 15/?mode=model

I've read a couple of reviews on the Yamaha DXR15's and people comment on how big and fullrange they sound. One of the common comments is that they sound like there are subs in the room? They're 1100watts each which is an extra 200watts per side more than my EON 15G2 + 518 sub. Also, my EON15 G2's and 518's subs are quoted at 129db SPL but the Yamaha DXR15's are quoted as being 133dB!

Any user experiences of the Yamaha DXR15's here?

Any ideas as to how these would compare to my current EON 15G2 + EON 518 sub rig?

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www.richardpenrose.com

Quote TSH-Tim:

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If your just looking for a one box system then the RCF 725a IS the box to buy and they sound like they have a active sub under them lol

Crazy box ! and worth every penny

---

Hi Tim,

Any ideas how the RCF 725a's compare to the Yamaha DXR15's?

At the moment the RCF's are totally out of my budget at £2200 a pair. The Yamaha DXR15's are £1200 a pair.

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www.richardpenrose.com

FBT PromaxX 14a We have just brought some of these and they are excellent.... Might be worth a look for you?
http://www.fbt.it/ENG/PAE/PRODOTTI/SPEAKERS/ProMaxX/ProMaxX-14/index.asp

Thanks for the reply. The FBT 14a certainly looks good on paper! Unfortunately I can only afford around £1200 and these cost £1800 per pair. If I had that budget then I would add the RCF 725amkII's to my list!

I tried the JBL EON 515XT's next to my old EON 15G2's and was very surprised to find that they didn't have as much bass as the 15G2's. They also suffered from port noise when pushed higher when playing bass guitar through them whereas the 15G2's were really clean!

So, after having a look around these are on my shortlist :-

Yamaha DXR 15 - £1200
EV ELX 115P - £1164
JBL PRX 615 - £1640 (would have to buy secondhand)
Turbosound Milan M15 - £1540 (been offered a good deal on these)

The Turbosound Milan is quoted at going down to 36Hz – 17kHz ±3dB, 23Hz – 22kHz ±10dB which is lower than my EON 518s sub!? This seems very impressive for a pair of 2 way speakers!! They have a continuous spl of 125db and max spl of 131db. This is a little lower then the others on my list which are between 133db to 135db spl. Of course in real world situations this may be different!?

One of the downsides of the Turbosound Milan M15 and EV ELX 115P are they're slightly heavier than my current EON 15G2's. Really I would prefer to get something a little lighter if possible unless the performance is far superior!

Has anyone on here been able to compare any of these? Which of these would be most suitable for putting kick drum and bass through in venues of around 200 people?

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www.richardpenrose.com

It's occurred to me you won't be able to go by specs alone. The 515XT has the same frequency response as the G2s, at least on paper, yet from what you've said, there's quite a noticeable difference in real life.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Quote Bob Bickerton:

---

It's occurred to me you won't be able to go by specs alone. The 515XT has the same frequency response as the G2s, at least on paper, yet from what you've said, there's quite a noticeable difference in real life.

Bob

---

Hi Bob. Yes specs on paper are very different to real world performance!

Because of where I live I can't get to demo these and even then the nearest stores don't stock all of these!!

I would really value peoples opinions/experiences of these speakers.

The Turbosound Milan M15 and Yamaha DXR15 are said to sound as though there is a sub present so this is why I shortlisted these. I spoke to someone earlier who has used both the DXR15's and PRX 615's and he said the Yamaha's had slightly better bass response!?

In the SOS review of the Turbosound's the reviewer said that these are possibly the most full range 2 way speakers he has ever heard?

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www.richardpenrose.com

Just found the video a/b's of the Milan's vs QSC K12, FBT Pro Maxx 14a and RCF 725a.

Obviously this is not exactly a realistic test the Milan's sounded way better than the QSC K12's!

In the comparison between the FBT14a, RCF 725a and Milan's it's harder to choose. They all appeared to sound good in the clip but with different sounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzk7roEeagM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=begcHt1P8Gw

Would love to hear the Turbosound MI5's, FBT 14a's and RCF 725a's for real!!

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www.richardpenrose.com

Just heard a video of my EON 15G2's vs the PRX 615M and on listening to this clip I preferred my 15G2's!??

If you fast forward to around 3 mins you can hear the a/b.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86-4lcbtwew

Starting to think my EON 15G2's may better than I realize!

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www.richardpenrose.com

Just noticed that the FBT Promaxx 14a's are selling for £1500 a pair which is putting them closer to my price bracket.

Because of this my shortlist is looking like :-

Yamaha DXR15
Turbosound Milan MI5
FBT Promaxx 14a

Has anyone been able to compare any of these speakers?

Anyone

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www.richardpenrose.com

Found some more info and a shootout between FBT 14a, RCF 725a, JBL EON 515XT, EV ZXA5 and DB Technologies 605D amongst others!

http://issuu.com/fbtelettronica/docs/fbt_promaxx_comparison_test#download< /a>

The FBT 14a's came out very favorably!

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www.richardpenrose.com

Those are all the links I found when we were looking into getting our new PA. As you say the FBT's looked great.

We then went to hear them at The London PA center (who were very very helpful) and loved them. We have now played a couple of gigs with them and they are fantastic.

Hi Dave,

Did you compare the FBT's against any others in the store when you bought them?

Also, what do you run through yours and what size venues/gigs?

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www.richardpenrose.com

No.... we had listened to some JBL 515's and the EV ELX115 in another shop. We had also listened to some DB's

When we heard the FBT's we just knew they were right for us. We are a rock duo... so we have backing track, two guitars and vocals.

www.the2fbs.co.uk

I've been speaking to a few dealers and they are all pointing me towards the Yamaha's!

The dealers I've spoken to regarding my requirements have recommended the Yamaha DXR15's over the Turbosound MI5's, FBT Promaxx 14a's and JBL PRX615's!??

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www.richardpenrose.com

Bump for anymore user experiences?

Would really value your advice as I can't get to compare these due to where I live!

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www.richardpenrose.com

Just a quick update.

I've got both the Yamaha DXR15's and Turbosound Milans coming this week to do a shootout along with my JBL EON 15G2's.
After the shootout I'll hopefully send my least favorites back and may get the FBT Promaxx 14a's sent down to A/B.

Will post mind findings soon

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www.richardpenrose.com

Quote dickiefunk:

---

I've been speaking to a few dealers and they are all pointing me towards the Yamaha's!

The dealers I've spoken to regarding my requirements have recommended the Yamaha DXR15's over the Turbosound MI5's, FBT Promaxx 14a's and JBL PRX615's!??

---

I like the DXR's, they're undeniably loud and they have great bass response for a mid/top. However, I think they're a tad harsh compared to the RCF D-Line's that I also tried out at the same time. I was drawn to the fact that a pair of the DXR's, and a nice mid-range sub, would be a very powerful and very good compact-sized PA.

The Yamaha's arrived earlier today and I gave them a quick A/B against my EON 15G2's in a carpeted church hall.
I put keys, backing tracks and a through them.

On first impressions I have been quite shocked at how much nicer they sound to my EONs! They are sooo much clearer! Also, the bass sounds deeper, the treble much more detailed and the whole mix sounds like you can pick out each instrument easily! The EON's sounded very boxy and muddy in comparison!

Looking forward to comparing the Yamaha's with the Turbosounds tomorrow night. I will be putting a whole band through them in a 250 people carpeted hall.
Will report back to let you know my findings!

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www.richardpenrose.com

Ok tried out the Turbosound Milan MI5s vs the Yamaha DXR15's. I put keys, bass, vocals and backing tracks through each of them. I put everything through a Presonus Studiolive with everything set flat.

I tried the Turbosounds first with the backing tracks and my initial thoughts were they sounded really good and clearly a big step up from my old EON 15G2's! There was more clarity and bass extension. Next I tried the same backing track through the Yamaha's and initially there was more detail and clarity. One way I could tell this is by the sympathetic resonance and the hammer noise of acoustic piano sounds. I can hear this clearly in the studio and through high quality headphones but this never came across on my JBL EON 15G2's and was barely audible on the Turbosounds! The Yamaha's sounded much more like I'm used to hearing in the studio and through headphones!
The next thing I tried was bass guitar and the Yamaha's presented a big fat bottom end with lots of string/fret detail and the Turbosounds maybe went a fraction lower but the detail was lost.
Finally I tried a female vocalist on a Sennheiser E935 through both sets and again the Yamahas had the most clarity and presence without sounding harsh!

After I tried all these sources I then tried a bass guitar again this time to hear how much these speakers could be driven! I tried the Yamaha's first and I kept turning them up and the limiter light didn't even flicker. We got to the point where our ears good cope and gave up. They just kept pumping out a big sound and we couldn't get the limiters to kick in.
Next I tried the Turbosounds with the same test. The limiters on the Turbosounds kicked in quite early and the speakers were struggling and started to chuff a little. I didn't turn them up any louder as I didn't feel confident they would have coped.

Verdict - The Yamaha's offer outstanding quality and cheaper than the competition AND with a 7 year warranty. They could louder and sound clearer than any portable active speaker I've tried to date. They also offer an extremely impressive full range sound and can go really deep!

I've been so impressed with the Yamaha's that I'm not sure I'll even bother trying the FBT's. For a start, I'm not expecting a 14inch speaker to produce the bottom end fullness of the Yamaha's 15 inch speaker. Also, the FBT's don't offer no where near the warranty (1 year I think) of the Yamaha's 7 year warranty. The only thing that is tempting me about the FBT's is the fact that they are lighter. Hmmmm!!??

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www.richardpenrose.com

I would get yourself down to Plasa today or tomorrow as there are some stunning products there and some very good deals to be had....

+1 again for the RCF 725A

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

Hi Tim,

I would have loved to been able to go to PLASA but I couldn't because of work and a 600 mile round trip etc.
I have had a look at the RCF 725a's and yes they do appear to be impressive speakers but they cost £1000 more than the Yamaha's!!
I've have been quoted excellent prices on the Turbosounds and FBT's. A few companies did a price match on the FBT's with Thomann for £1530.

My main objective when upgrading my JBL EON15G2's was to get something that had noticeably deeper bass, higher clarity and be able to go louder whilst maintain clarity with less distortion.
I have already been extremely pleased that I've found a pair of speakers that is a clear step up in all these areas for £1160!!

I may have a demo pair of FBT Promaxx 14a's being sent down in the next few days.If these are capable of what the Yamaha's are but weigh 6kg lighter then I will be truly amazed!!

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www.richardpenrose.com

You should get upto 40% off the list price if you speak to RCF at a show like Plasa... which makes these speakers very cheap indeed.....

We have just bought a few of these RCF HDL 20-A with the RCF 8006-AS Sub and the guys at RCF couldn't of been more helpful to be fair.

Am sure there is another show called BPM ?? which is aimed to all these sorts of products for real end users like you & I. Where as Plasa is for the big boy stuff and people are spending £10,000 per moving head ! or £50,000 on a mixing desk :? MAD !

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

I can not comment on the Yamaha's... or compare them with our FBT's.... I can say though that we are still blown away with the sound our FBT's throw out.

We could not be happier with our choice

Dave

Quote TSH-Tim:

---

You should get upto 40% off the list price if you speak to RCF at a show like Plasa... which makes these speakers very cheap indeed.....

We have just bought a few of these RCF HDL 20-A with the RCF 8006-AS Sub and the guys at RCF couldn't of been more helpful to be fair.

Am sure there is another show called BPM ?? which is aimed to all these sorts of products for real end users like you & I. Where as Plasa is for the big boy stuff and people are spending £10,000 per moving head ! or £50,000 on a mixing desk :? MAD !

---

Wow that RCF looks great!! I'm not going to be able to get up to the BPM show either sadly.

Quote Dave.jj:

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I can not comment on the Yamaha's... or compare them with our FBT's.... I can say though that we are still blown away with the sound our FBT's throw out.

We could not be happier with our choice

Dave

---

Yes I'm sure those FBT's are great. I've heard nothing but good comments about them!

I'm not going to be able to get a pair down to demo whilst I've got the Yamaha's here so I'm going to keep the Yamaha's because I am very impressed with what I've heard so far!
I've spoken to a couple of dealers who sell both the Yamaha's and FBT's and they recommended the Yamaha's for my applications. The 7 year warranty is also helping with this decision!

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www.richardpenrose.com

To be fair the 7 year warranty is amazing ! but does that cover the drivers ?

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PA Hire Surrey
Lighting Hire Surrey

Did our first gig with the new DXR15's in one of our regular venues.

Had a few sound engineers and musicians there and they noticed a big improvement over the old EON's! Doing sound was so much easier tonight. We put 4x vocals, 2x keys, bass guitar and kick drum through the pa and I had to use very little eq as everything seemed to sound great!

Normally with my old EON's I had to eq everything quite extremely to get the clarity and depth that I wanted.

Oh, and they've got so much more power! We played in a venue that holds around 100-125 people tonight and I didn't need to drive them very hard to fill the venue with a big sound!

Am very happy with my DXR15's and am happy to recommend them to anyone looking for a decent full range pair of loudspeakers!

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www.richardpenrose.com