(Not sure if this is the right forum so will apologise in advance if not!)

I'm working on a song and want to be able to collaborate with my mate in South Africa. I will "control" the project by putting down a basic track which my mate will then add some acoustic guitar and vocals - between us building the track up.

I had in mind sending him a basic track mix on mp3 whic he can import into a new project in Cubase. He will then lay down acoustic guitar and copy the wav/wma file from the project directory and email this file back to me to insert into my project and add my tracks, then so on and so on until final song.

Do any of you guys have any experience of this way of working or is there a better/ more efficient way of doing this - we both use Cubase 6.

Also, what is the best way of sending the (rather large) files between us - we've been using email so far but he is particularly constrained with sending large files by email? Is, say Soundcloud, a viable option or is there an even better way?


Any suggestions very welcome please

I've done quite a bit of this Stephan (including with people in that part of the world).The method you have outlined is what I have used. Sync is easier if all parties work with full song length files regardless of when actual playback starts/stops i.e starting at bar 1 and running to the song finish.

If there's tempo changes, then a MIDI tempo map should be used.

As for the file transfer, either use a shared Dropbox type arrangement or send via something like wetransfer.com, yousendit.com etc.

It's still in (open) beta so your milage may vary, but OhmStudio ( http://www.ohmstudio.com/ ) appears to be pretty much perfect for this sort of thing. Check the demo videos to see why.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Ohmstudio looks very interesting....

I use TransferBigFiles for sending large files around the world.

Whatever your transfer mechanism I'd suggest that you do everything possible to avoid using a lossy format like mp3/wma to send files back and forth - if you DO transfer files rather than use Ohmstudio or something similar. I'd suggest you really should be sending your working files to each other as WAVs - 16-bit 44.1 as a minimum standard. Of course, you should be working at this minimum standard too unless you're really only jamming along for fun.

A shared Dropbox folder is my solution and it works very well. There's nothing wrong with passing rough mixes between you, rather than a load of individual tracks, but you have to be careful that you are consistent with the alignment of the rough and the subsequent tracks you pass back and forth.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

This is all really helpful stuff thanks so much everyone!

The OHMstudio looks really interesting and innovative though I think I prefer to work on Cubase - what you know and are familiar with and all that!

Tried passing over an acoustic track but, when it was pasted into the project, the timing was very very slightly out - not by much but noticeable - not quite on the beat. I haven't discounted that it might just be a discrepency in the start position/alignment when recorded or something but has anyone else also had this and how did you fix it?

Good advice about using wav files rather than mp3 and wma files. I will look into the shared dropbox idea I think or the other suggestions kindly made.

Any oter thoughts or advice?

I've worked with a few other people across the world, and have always found the overall best method is to store individual tracks in a common lossless format, and crucially put a 1 bar click header on the front for precise alignment.

This frees you up from any issues about different hardware/software, reduces the amount of data you have to send each time a track is added and also allows all of you to try out your own mixes, which is especially useful if you are adding detail to an already quite full mix.

The greatest number of people I've done this with on a single track is 4. We've used a variety of methods to bounce the material to each other including ordinary email. They all seem much of a muchness to me.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote Folderol:

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...... and crucially put a 1 bar click header on the front for precise alignment......

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this is the key....and a nice sharp sample transient at the beginning (it doesn't matter what it sounds like - what it looks like is more important!)

Also - I like sending "full files" (wav,ACC etc) because your collaborater gets more of a 'feel' for where things are going musically (timbre and texture) and can play/mic up accordingly (probably more important when dealing with "real" rather than plugin sounds)

OR - if working purely in plug-in format - I like to send midi files (with notes on when everything starts) and patches (making sure the collaborator has the same plugins of course!)

The 2nd biggest issue for me (after timing) is timbre - the SOUND of the music....which effected collaboration more than anything else!

I also used drop-box - it's free and efficient!

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http://soundcloud.com/seaapes

Quote Stephan:

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Tried passing over an acoustic track but, when it was pasted into the project, the timing was very very slightly out - not by much but noticeable - not quite on the beat. I haven't discounted that it might just be a discrepency in the start position/alignment when recorded or something but has anyone else also had this and how did you fix it?

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If you're bouncing down with plug-in processing on the master buss, that can introduce a delay, the effect of which is to shift the mix back along the timeline.

That said, the method of putting clicks at the start of the track for alignment purposes should allow you to compensate.

I've done a fair bit of this.

I have found in the past that files that come back from collaborators using cubase seem to have a few extra samples at the start and don't line up when I import them into my project.

We just added a click count in which I could use as a guide to line up the parts manually.

Next time I will use dropbox rather than have to sort out an FTP server.

3 of the guys on my last album were 'distance collaborators' who I never met in real life... (sadly one of them has subsequently passed away, so no we'll never meet )

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New album 'Fantasy Bridge' available now!
Making of Fantasy Bridge Diary

Is there a site where you can find musos to collaborate with? I remember seeing a few sites a few years back but google doesn't seem to remember them?

KVR, Sound Cloud, Kara-Moon (although KM has gone very quite over the last 6 months).

I recommend the same approach with all three. Trawl through the sites for for people doing the sort of stuff you'd like to get involved with. Drill down to find a track you can add something to. Send the composer a rough draft and ask if he/she is interested (never had a refusal myself). Get the stubs and give it your best, or pass over a track to the composer for them to integrate and release.

Oh, and agree early on as to whether it will be a freebie track or a commercial one!

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Edited by Folderol (27/06/12 06:49 PM)

Quote Folderol:

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and crucially put a 1 bar click header on the front for precise alignment

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...or make a separate waveform of the click and do all your recording to it, especially if you are using different DAWs!

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Do you need real drum tracks? http://www.drumtracksdirect.co.uk/

Quote The Elf:

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A shared Dropbox folder is my solution and it works very well. There's nothing wrong with passing rough mixes between you, rather than a load of individual tracks, but you have to be careful that you are consistent with the alignment of the rough and the subsequent tracks you pass back and forth.

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We use this.... We keep the session folder in the dropbox and we take turns working on it. That way, there's no to and fro - no confusion about what is what and what version mix you are on.

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I'm All Ears.

I'll just throw Ninjam into the pot http://cockos.com/ninjam/ it may not be what you want but it's posssibly worth a look and might spark the imagination.

+2 on using dropbox or you could use some other similar cloud hard drive type app like microsoft skydrive or google g-drive. Just make sure that one of ye is not working on it when you want to do something with it.

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right.........

Quote ow:

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I'll just throw Ninjam into the pot http://cockos.com/ninjam/ it may not be what you want but it's posssibly worth a look and might spark the imagination.

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Ninjam can be a lot of fun, but it's really aimed at live playing. Also things can quickly become a mess if you don't keep a tight rein on the timing. Had a few great jam sessions with it.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)