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Peter Land



Joined: 01/11/04
Posts: 232
Loc: Cologne, Germany
What is the Function Symbol for a Dominant Tritone Substitution? new
      #995919 - 03/07/12 11:29 AM
Does anyone know of a "Function" symbol for a Dominant Tritone Substitution? I.e. in when you switch Db7 for a G7? Normally when our Tonic is C Major, G7 would be described as a Dominant 7th Chord or a "D7" in Function Symbols (D stands here for "Dominant" and NOT the note: "D"). Does anyone have any idea if there is any term for Db7 as a replacement for G7? (Not as a Neapolitan chord…)

One solution to the problem would be Đ7, 5>, b9. The crossed out D means a Dominant 7th Chord without its root (again…"D" does not stand for the note "D", but rather the Function "Dominant".) The "5>" means that the 5th is diminished, i.e. in our example of the G7 Chord, the 5th would become a Db. And there is an additional b9 note added to the mix, in this case Ab. This leaves us with Db, F, Ab, B (or Cb if you want to spell the Db7 chord properly in it's new form.)

Seeing as that the Tritone Substitution is so prevalent in today's musical language, there must be a simpler symbol for this… Does anyone know of one?? (I'm writing my Bachelor Dissertation here in Germany and am analysing Thomas Newman's music.)

Many thanks, I look forward to any useful tips you might be able to offer!

Peter


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Anonymous
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Re: What is the Function Symbol for a Dominant Tritone Substitution? new [Re: Peter Land]
      #995956 - 03/07/12 01:44 PM
bV7/V = bII7


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Peter Land



Joined: 01/11/04
Posts: 232
Loc: Cologne, Germany
Re: What is the Function Symbol for a Dominant Tritone Substitution? new [Re: Peter Land]
      #995971 - 03/07/12 03:36 PM
Hmm…i don't really grasp this:

bV7/V

Wikipedia also has a paragraph describing this same concept and i find it also confusing. When I see bV in the context of C major, I would imagine a G-Flat Major Chord. Then with the Slash part of the term "/V" I would imagine a G-Flat Major Chord over a G Bass. And that is very much not D-Flat Major. What am I doing wrong here?

Sorry…i'm a bit slow!!


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Anonymous
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Re: What is the Function Symbol for a Dominant Tritone Substitution? new [Re: Peter Land]
      #996003 - 03/07/12 07:32 PM
Well the V defines the original tonality, that is the context of the key.
The bV7 of V shows how we attain the tritone substitution of the dominant chord, which
serves as a dominant 7th tension of the key in question. The chord is non diatonic but still serves the same purpose.

This is the problem with classical harmony, which serves diatonic theory quite heavily. It's more Jazz theory (which is the extension of classical) which defines the purpose of altered chords and substitutions more.

The tritone substitution is part of secondary dominant theory.

In context you could have the progression I-V7-bII7-I which adds a little more flavour.

Hope that helps


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Pauly99
member


Joined: 11/11/03
Posts: 41
Re: What is the Function Symbol for a Dominant Tritone Substitution? [Re: Peter Land]
      #996064 - 04/07/12 07:17 AM
Quote Peter Land:

Hmm…i don't really grasp this:

bV7/V

Wikipedia also has a paragraph describing this same concept and i find it also confusing. When I see bV in the context of C major, I would imagine a G-Flat Major Chord. Then with the Slash part of the term "/V" I would imagine a G-Flat Major Chord over a G Bass. And that is very much not D-Flat Major. What am I doing wrong here?

Sorry…i'm a bit slow!!




Perhaps the '/V' refers to the fifth of bV7? Ie Db


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stratquebec



Joined: 30/10/05
Posts: 853
Loc: Quebec/Canada
Re: What is the Function Symbol for a Dominant Tritone Substitution? new [Re: Peter Land]
      #998001 - 15/07/12 05:02 PM
I suggest : bII7:V7

: symbol for sub
left symbol for the chord played
right symbol for the chord substituted

Application: Db7:G7


bV7/V is interesting but not enough straitghtforward and the / symbol is already used by chords over a bass note


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Anonymous
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Re: What is the Function Symbol for a Dominant Tritone Substitution? new [Re: stratquebec]
      #1000235 - 28/07/12 04:01 AM
Quote stratquebec:

I suggest : bII7:V7

: symbol for sub
left symbol for the chord played
right symbol for the chord substituted

Application: Db7:G7


bV7/V is interesting but not enough straitghtforward and the / symbol is already used by chords over a bass note




That just makes it confusing for anybody learning or using it as a symbol. Your method does not show the equation of which creates the bII7 chord.


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stratquebec



Joined: 30/10/05
Posts: 853
Loc: Quebec/Canada
Re: What is the Function Symbol for a Dominant Tritone Substitution? new [Re: ]
      #1000295 - 28/07/12 12:58 PM
It doesn't need to!


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