My 13-year-old daughter has got interested in The Beatles: a band that didn't interest me much in my yoof, so I am listening properly for pretty much the first time.

So we now have a copy of The White Album.

According to Wikipedia, Eric Clapton played the solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. The solo on the copy we have involves repetitive, directionless, out-of-tune noodling that could be bettered by any old drunk in a pub blues band. So are there different versions and we have the duff one, or is Eric actually, secretly, you know, a bit crap ?

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Quote SecretSam:

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According to Wikipedia, Eric Clapton played the solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps.

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Since you're quoting Wikipedia you might have missed this...

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun12/articles/classic-tracks-0612.htm

Thanks for the link. I did see that article, and was interested to read about "Eric Clapton’s magnificent, blistering, blues-rock solo," because I certainly can't hear anything of that description on the track. Maybe it was mixed in backwards and quietly, along with sinister words advocating suicide or satanism.

The solo on my copy is not so much 'magnificent and blistering,' as it is 'unimaginative and badly-played.'

Maybe I have a special limited edition ?

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Is no-one going to argue with the 'Eric is crap' rant ?

Look, there is no point in trolling if I don't get fed !

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Quote SecretSam:

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Is no-one going to argue with the 'Eric is crap' rant ?

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He can't be that bad, he stole George's wife didn't he?

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Quote SecretSam:

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Is no-one going to argue with the 'Eric is crap' rant ?

Look, there is no point in trolling if I don't get fed !

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Well he's not crap but, you know, a bit too safe these days maybe? I mean he's technically always on it but for some that comes at the cost of the soulfulness. Which we know he can do, or certainly could. But he doesn't go out on wild limbs of experimentation like say Jeff Beck. Not these days. Some days Mr Beck's boldness doesn't pay off. But when it does its pure magic. Mr Clapton choses not to do this and for me that tends to make him a bit bland. So sorry, not going to rise to your goad!

He is a good guy though. A neighbor of mine who fights a losing battle with the bottle once did 8 weeks at the Priory with Eric as his facilitator throughout the whole course of treatment. Can't believe he was doing that for the money. It wasn't the first stint this particular gentleman had taken there and he says Eric was brilliant (even if in this particular case it didn't work). Then there is his rehab place out in Antigua, where deserving island people can check in for free. I suspect these days Eric's passions run in other areas besides music.

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Strictly project and just for fun

OK, back under my bridge while I think up something more controversial.

Is the weather nice in England at the moment ?

If not, why are you all so reasonable ?

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Quote SecretSam:

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OK, back under my bridge while I think up something more controversial.

Is the weather nice in England at the moment ?

If not, why are you all so reasonable ?

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Because the weather is rarely alright and we've been brow beaten into submission. Some sun has arrived today, but it is so humid it makes it unpleasant.

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Quote SecretSam:

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OK, back under my bridge while I think up something more controversial.

Is the weather nice in England at the moment ?

If not, why are you all so reasonable ?

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If you'd mentioned you were Johnny Foreigner in your OP you might have provoked a more robust reaction...

On the whole though, if you find don't like The White Album, the Beatles really aren't for you. That album has something for everyone, from the experimental to the sentimental.

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It's got a lot of brilliant songs - but I don't think it's a very good album...

Quote SecretSam:

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My 13-year-old daughter has got interested in The Beatles: a band that didn't interest me much in my yoof, so I am listening properly for pretty much the first time.

So we now have a copy of The White Album.

According to Wikipedia, Eric Clapton played the solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. The solo on the copy we have involves repetitive, directionless, out-of-tune noodling that could be bettered by any old drunk in a pub blues band. So are there different versions and we have the duff one, or is Eric actually, secretly, you know, a bit crap ?

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First of all - can you tell me what guitarists float your boat? that'll help me understand where you're coming from.

there is a LOT to dislike about Eric Clapton - but lets judge the performance on it's playing merit. My view:

There is a fine line to pulling off a performance of being "on the edge". It's not about virtuosity, its about communicating a feeling. More "jack white" than "steve via". Jimmy Page is a great example of someone who pulled this off a lot. His playing sounds broken, fallen apart, on the edge of "shite" - yet he pulls it off in such a manner as to absolutely give us something of brashness and vigour. Steve Vai, on the other hands, plays perfect, highly technical wonder pieces... yet somehow he has always left me feeling I'm listening to a robot play....

So - Cl;aptons solo. On the edge, out of tune, out of time - but perfectly captures the mood of the song DESPITE not sounding much beyond th etch prowess of, as you say, a drunk down the pub.

Woo-hoo ! I got a bite :-)

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

If you don't like it then listen to something else.

Hi Narcoman

Boat-floating guitarists for me would include:

Jimi Hendrix (all kneel and observe a minute of respectful silence)
Would agree with Page and Jack White. And that Steve Vai is very, very boring.
Alan Holdsworth
Mike Stern
John Etheridge
Jim Mullen
Ritchie Blackmore
Rory Gallagher
Steve Jones
John McGeogh
Stephen Fellows

Clearly technical merit is a different matter from artistic merit (Although you to express one well, you probably need a handful of the other). But I can't see how that applies to the solo in question, which just goes round and round in circles. Even Carlos Santana could have done a better job*.

Are we talking about the same Clapton solo, I wonder ? Seriously. Is there just the one version of The White Album ? I'll have another listen over the weekend. Maybe the CD needed wearing in to release the full set of notes :-)







*Never let it be said that I don't troll thoroughly

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

(Very sensible, ow, but where would the fun be in that ? Actually I like the track, but wish it had a different solo in it.)

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

http://truefire.com/blog/favorites/while-guitar-gently-weeps-clapton-isola ted-guitar/

The solo, soloed.

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Very nice find, Ritchie !

I think he does a decent job of the accompaniment bits, but for me it utterly falls apart in the solos: about 2:00 to 2:36 and 3:40 to 4:20 in your link.

This really does sound like someone desperately bending and vibrato-ing two or three notes for half a minute at a time because he has run out of ideas and doesn't have enough musical vocabulary to get him through. It does the track a lot of damage.

Jazz musicians, who improvise a lot, have a whole vocabulary for this sort of rabbit-in-the-headlights performance. 'Bluffing' and 'folding' are two of the kinder verbs. One of my favourite put-downs is "That solo was a bit unlucky," which means "He didn't have a clue what he was doing, and was hoping that some random notes would occupy the time without anyone spotting it." The more you play, the better the insult gets.

I can't imagine why the producers didn't say: "Eric, baby, that was terrific. Love your work. Truly. What have you got in mind for developing the solo, now you have had a chance to play the track through with the band ?" And then do a proper take after giving him a couple of hours of thinking and trying out stuff.

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Quote SecretSam:

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(Very sensible, ow, but where would the fun be in that ? Actually I like the track, but wish it had a different solo in it.)

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If you like the track but would like a different solo, how about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y

I think the problem might be that you are expecting a solo, when in fact he is playing lead. Which is not the same thing.

Quote Richie Royale:

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http://truefire.com/blog/favorites/while-guitar-gently-weeps-clapton-isola ted-guitar/

The solo, soloed.

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Try this one! You might find it a bit much. I don't! Prince comes in on the solo after about four minutes (and goes on for another two). The event was Prince's induction to the R&R Hall of Fame on the same evening George Harrison was also inducted, which is why his son is also on the stage. I have heard serious commentators say this might just be the greatest guitar solo ever...

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Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Korff:

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It's got a lot of brilliant songs - but I don't think it's a very good album...

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I'd agree with that. I have long thought that the White Album was a really excellent single lp struggling to get out of the stifling confines of an over-padded double. Nice photos, though. (And yes, for me WMGW would be a keeper complete with Clapton solo).

CC

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote Frisonic:

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Quote Richie Royale:

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http://truefire.com/blog/favorites/while-guitar-gently-weeps-clapton-isola ted-guitar/

The solo, soloed.

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Try this one! You might find it a bit much. I don't! Prince comes in on the solo after about four minutes (and goes on for another two). The event was Prince's induction to the R&R Hall of Fame on the same evening George Harrison was also inducted, which is why his son is also on the stage. I have heard serious commentators say this might just be the greatest guitar solo ever...

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Prince is one of the best contemporary guitarists, but never gets talked about much as a guitarist. Great solo. Reminded me a bit of this track by Funkadelic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IodGZAx7FRs

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Quote Richie Royale:

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Prince is one of the best contemporary guitarists, but never gets talked about much as a guitarist

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Ain't that the truth!

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Strictly project and just for fun

I seem to remember reading an interview somewhere where EC said that listening to Prince's music got him back to playing after the long break getting off the poisons.

The Prince solo is a definite improvement on the EC one. On the other hand, if you listen to it with your eyes shut (so you can't see the body language) it comes down to an energetic use of a couple of blues scales in some very familiar ways.

Here's an idea. Why don't we all have a go at playing a WMGGW solo of not more than one minute, and post it somewhere public by the end of the month. The best one gets the SOS Forum's official "I can play better than Eric Clapton" award, and can wear a commemorative orange-and-purple-striped tie at formal dinners. ProTools and other sneaky corrections are allowed. I am prepared to be roundly mocked after this, but then (i) guitar is not my main instrument and (ii) it isn't my day job either.

Post a couple of sentences on what you were trying to achieve, so the argument is about how well the intention was expressed (e.g. "I wanted the guitar to sound sad and meditative" should rightly produce a different effect to "I wanted to play more notes than anyone else, so that I can have my own signature strings and accessories bought by teenagers.")

Any takers ?

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

No, but i am very happ to stand at the back and say "I could have played that!"

Thanks, ow, that will add useful perspective. I am thinking of creating a number of sock puppet accounts to do a similar thing, but adding "... except for Sam's, which was way beyond me."

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Quote ConcertinaChap:

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Quote Korff:

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It's got a lot of brilliant songs - but I don't think it's a very good album...

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I'd agree with that. I have long thought that the White Album was a really excellent single lp struggling to get out of the stifling confines of an over-padded double. Nice photos, though. (And yes, for me WMGW would be a keeper complete with Clapton solo).

CC

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So i went to wiki had a look at the track listing, expecting to find a few songs that could have been dropped... side one, nope....side two, nah... side three, Birthday, yer Blues, Mother Nature's Son, nope... side four two Revolutions both brilliant in their own way but worlds apart, and all other tracks valid...

So I can't agree, the White Album was their best IMO in terms of diversity of content and experimentation, fun for all the family and every aspect of Beatles' music is contained therein, from McArtney's sentimental and 'one for granny' material to Lennon's rockin stuff. Not 'perfect' maybe, I suggest perfection is side two of Abbey Road, but that's just me... a fan!


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Quote GlynB:

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I suggest perfection is side two of Abbey Road, but that's just me... a fan!

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Totally — it's pure musical opulence. The material in those 20 minutes would keep the Kaiser Chiefs going for a decade; those songs wouldn't get boring if each one was three times as long! But I feel the White Album is the opposite. It sounds like there was no self-censoring, no ditching of anything that wasn't up to the mark, and — crucially — no coherence. It doesn't hang together as an album, there's no 'narrative', no lovingly crafted segues, just loads and loads of songs. Many of those songs are brilliant (arguing about which ones are is to miss the point, I think), but they don't support each other in the album like those on Abbey Road do.

Cheers!

Chris

Surely part of the point of the guitar solo is that invokes a mixture of melanchoy despair and despondance, a musical version of the lyrical content, and in that respect it works, 'cos I don't feel good after listening to it.

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I've never liked a solo violin, you need at least five for a proper fire.

Very well interpreted, RT.

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Quote RhinoTime:

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Surely part of the point of the guitar solo is that invokes a mixture of melanchoy despair and despondance, a musical version of the lyrical content, and in that respect it works, 'cos I don't feel good after listening to it.

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Spot on, guitarists take note! No matter how fast n furious or perfectly played or clever, if it don't suit the feel and mood of the song, then it's all for nothing.

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I don't feel good after listening to it, either. But probably not for the intended reasons.

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Quote SecretSam:

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I don't feel good after listening to it, either. But probably not for the intended reasons.

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I never said why.

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I've never liked a solo violin, you need at least five for a proper fire.

I got it, RT, but I realised that we needed to add subtitles for the ironically-challenged ;-)

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Instant gratification is actually pretty good. It's fast as well.

Quote Korff:

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Quote GlynB:

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I suggest perfection is side two of Abbey Road, but that's just me... a fan!

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Totally — it's pure musical opulence. The material in those 20 minutes would keep the Kaiser Chiefs going for a decade; those songs wouldn't get boring if each one was three times as long! But I feel the White Album is the opposite. It sounds like there was no self-censoring, no ditching of anything that wasn't up to the mark, and — crucially — no coherence. It doesn't hang together as an album, there's no 'narrative', no lovingly crafted segues, just loads and loads of songs. Many of those songs are brilliant (arguing about which ones are is to miss the point, I think), but they don't support each other in the album like those on Abbey Road do.

Cheers!

Chris

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Or to summarise - it's a collection of great songs but isn't a great album. Will that do?


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Quote Hairy Ears:

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Quote Korff:

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Quote GlynB:

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I suggest perfection is side two of Abbey Road, but that's just me... a fan!

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Totally — it's pure musical opulence. The material in those 20 minutes would keep the Kaiser Chiefs going for a decade; those songs wouldn't get boring if each one was three times as long! But I feel the White Album is the opposite. It sounds like there was no self-censoring, no ditching of anything that wasn't up to the mark, and — crucially — no coherence. It doesn't hang together as an album, there's no 'narrative', no lovingly crafted segues, just loads and loads of songs. Many of those songs are brilliant (arguing about which ones are is to miss the point, I think), but they don't support each other in the album like those on Abbey Road do.

Cheers!

Chris

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Or to summarise - it's a collection of great songs but isn't a great album. Will that do?

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Hmmmm, I'm going to have to go away and think about that one... can a collection of great songs NOT make up a great album...? So presumably there might exist a great album containing weak songs?

if a great album has to have some overall theme and all the songs must sound and feel the same, then i guess White Album is too diverse... but some would argue the very diversity makes the greatness, it's never dull!

My brain hurts...

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Quote GlynB:

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Quote Hairy Ears:

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Or to summarise - it's a collection of great songs but isn't a great album. Will that do?

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Hmmmm, I'm going to have to go away and think about that one... can a collection of great songs NOT make up a great album...? So presumably there might exist a great album containing weak songs?

if a great album has to have some overall theme and all the songs must sound and feel the same, then i guess White Album is too diverse... but some would argue the very diversity makes the greatness, it's never dull!

My brain hurts...

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I don't think you necessarily need a consistent narrative as such, perhaps more a natural flowing of mood throughout the album. Sometimes the stylistic jumps can be too jarring for me. Of course you might like that jarring feeling, and indeed might well not even be jarring to you.

I doubt there are great albums consisting of weak songs, but I have a feeling there are probably great albums with only good songs.

Anyway, it's all subjective, innit!

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I like a lot of the stuff on the White album but I usually find I'm drawn to playing individual tracks (as and when I'm in the mood for that song) rather than playing through the whole album.

Quote Hairy Ears:

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I don't think you necessarily need a consistent narrative as such, perhaps more a natural flowing of mood throughout the album. Sometimes the stylistic jumps can be too jarring for me. Of course you might like that jarring feeling, and indeed might well not even be jarring to you.

I doubt there are great albums consisting of weak songs, but I have a feeling there are probably great albums with only good songs.

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I'd go along with that. Dark Side of the Moon is one of my favourite albums (an obvious choice I know!) but if I picked my top 5 or even 10 favourite Floyd tracks I don't think any of them would be from that album. However, if I could only have one PF album it would always be Dark Side.

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Somebody call The Doctor

Quote Hairy Ears:

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Or to summarise - it's a collection of great songs but isn't a great album. Will that do?

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Something like that, yes.

Quote Korff:

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It's got a lot of brilliant songs - but I don't think it's a very good album...

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