Starting with a confession....I think I've pretty much hated everything Marshall have produced since the 70's. I've owned one of the 30th anniversary heads, and I hated it. I've played for an extended period with a Vintage Modern and thought it was horrible. I've never liked JCM800's much, JCM900's even less.

Everything they have produced recently (like the last 30years) sounds to my ears like it's got a horrible harshness which sounds like it’s missing all the good attributes of what Marshalls used to be like. There is a huge number of youtube videos with people claiming to be able to get an early 'Van Halen' or early AC/DC tone and it sounding like a wasp in a jam jar, and certainly nothing like the rich, juicy tones old Marshalls used to have.

I have an old Marshall head (early 70’s), which I really like, but I’m after something more flexible which keeps the same basic tone. I also have an Orange Tiny Terror, which I really like, but again, no FX loop or channel switching, which is something I’m looking for.

Am I judging Marshalls’ recent output unfairly? I’ve read plenty of posts on the internet from people who claim they get better vintage tones from the new Marshall heads then the old ones, but I haven’t heard any sound samples which supported this.

I’m interested in having my views challenged, as feature wise, the JVM amps would be perfect (I haven’t got to try a JVM yet). I’m perfectly happy to take a beating on this...I’ve been wrong on gear in the past and there is a lot of people who seem to like Marshall recent output, so there must be something good about it? Any suggestions of what else might be worth trying would also be appreciated.

I am a very happy JCM900 user. It has to be at window rattling volume to get the tone for recordings but it sits great in the mix.

I think it is just a matter of what you like, and considering Marshall sales I guess you're in the minority, although I can't say I am crazy about their newer stuff, too much electronics. From engineering standpoint the JVM is bound to fail sooner or later, I saw one open and it looks like a mess to service.

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www.descentintomadness.com

No you're absolutely right...They made great amps up to the end of the seventies. It's not a master volume thing either, because actually the late seventies JMP's which were really a JCM800 can be extremely good.

As you say though, they're not flexible. But then neither is any other amp of this sort. The things that affect the tone are fundamental to the design of the amp and especially the speaker/cabinet that you use. You can't make a plexi into a 4x12 sound like a Fender Deluxe combo. And hence these things dont tend to be very flexible. They sound like a Marshall, or a Fender, or an AC30. But never really all of those things.

J

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www.jackruston.com

If you live in the East Midlands, you should consider a trip up to Huddersfield to the Matamp factory.

They hand-build the amps there and they sound fab (in my opinion anyway!). They won't be everyones cup of tea for sure and, as you're having it built for you point to point in the UK it's nowhere near as pocket friendly as the Blackstar range (for instance).

But if you want flexibility, an fx loop and chanel switching then a 1224 has to be a contender. This video doesn't do justice to the sound (few youtube videos do....) but it gives you an idea of the flexibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0xYq_Ig3Bo

Have you considered the Marshall signature models? The Kerry King and Slash models are excellent IMO.

Have you considered an attenuator, marshall power brake or whatever

To drive the amp harder to get better tones

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Madman_Greg

I can't speak for 70's nicey priceys, but I have hated Marshalls forever and everyone I have spoken to have said that their only redeeming feature is that they don't break down.

I have known only a couple of people use Marshall amps and they get a cracking sound, but for me there is always this low-mid burr and a cloudy mid range that causes the tone to lose clarity. It means you have to turn up louder which I suppose is what Marshall want you to do to re-inforce the brand image. Not that it's a conspiracy or anything.

You say you had a Tiny Terror, well I have a Dark Terror which is supposed to be for Metallers, but I play pop, rock, blues and absolutely love it. It even has a valve FX loop and is plenty loud. I sounds Marshally to me, but without the lack of 'point'. I used to play Fenders and I think it's a nice bridge between a grear Marshall tone and a good Fender tone.

EDIT : There also used to be an amp manufacturer in Birmingham called Sheldon who lived about 10 minutes from me and did these huge 2w combo point to point things that sounded the absolute business. They went bust so these amps are nowhere to be found but my god they sounded fantastic

Edited by tomdot (11/07/12 09:27 AM)

Cheers all, thanks for the input.

The Matamp and Sheldon amps sound interesting. I've never heard Kerry King play, but looking at him, I'm guessing it's a bit more rawk than my alt.country leanings

I always use a hotplate, and I think that's one of the reasons I haven't got on with the modern Marshalls....they didn't seem to be like being run flat out. I got the feeling that they were more for players who use a lot of preamp distortion? When I had the 6100, I tried to use it by running the clean or crunch channels up loud to mimic what I do with the vintage head, but it never sounded like an old Marshall...the sound always had a hardness which I just don't hear on the old amps (or on any of the recordings made with them).

I guess what surprises me is that the Tiny Terror sounds a lot more like an old Marshall than i've ever managed to get with a modern Marshall. All the reviews imply that the modern ones an 'do' the 'vintage' Marshall tone, but I have not heard one get close. Is that because I'm not setting the amp up correctly?

I guess my question could best be condensed into 'Is it possible for a modern Marshall to do a decent vintage Marshall tone?' I'm not expecting an exact match, but something which doesn't have that brittle edge to the tone.

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I like people, it's my friends I can't stand - Larry David.
http://www.myspace.com/lodious

Rather than your question, I think our question to you is why are you hankering after Marshalls when alt.country tone is lots and lots of Fender loveliness?

Though, I would say that to me modern Marshalls certainly don't get the tone I hear on records where the player is known Marshall user. Modern Marshalls have this element of white noise behind the sound that I equate to gain levels (even at lower settings). I obviously don't hear this on older recordings such as some Clapton stuff from the 60s and Led Zep, so I can only assume that because Marshall have decided to make higher and higher gain amps as the years have gone on that this has affected them badly.

As you say, the Orange sounds closer to a Marshall than a Marshall and this was one reason I bought it - as I said it bridged between a Fender and a Marshall tone

If you want a curve ball to look at

Find a 70s Traynor YBA-1 Bass Master

OK its non MV, but with a pedal to drive the front end for crunch / lead tones could offer the base for a flexible-ish setup

And they will not break the bank and a lot of people say they sound better than the Marshalls of the time.

I used to use one for guitar coupled with a Mesa Boogie v-twin into a 70s 4x10" Traynor cab about 10 years ago. The tone was superb.

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Madman_Greg

Did you try the Class5? Or is 5 watt too little?

Talking about Traynor - they did have one called the Traynor Blue that was very vintage Marshall-y.
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/Traynor_YCV50_Blue_Alltube_Guitar_Amplifier_wi th_Free_Cover_YCV50BLUEKIT.html

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www.descentintomadness.com

I built a wide panel tweed deluxe clone and recently ought a Hughes & Kettner 1x12 Satesman with a pair of EL84s in it.
The deluxe covers dark and the H&K does the light and the nutter bastard distortion on the rare occasions I use it.

I too am in that general Americana/alt.country/old rnb bag.


But YES to a Traynor valve amp or for that matter any of the cathode biased amps that are around if you want warm dirty-ish grit.

Think the "blues" side of distortion rather than out and out rawk though.
And a good compressor doesnt hurt either

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Me? But I`m such a loveable old bugger!

I love the sounds I get from my Marshall 9001 pre and 9005 power amps. Especially paired with a purple Hendrix re-issue tall 4x12 and a pair of SE100's. OK, a Marshall 20/20 power amp would be perfect, and a few more SE100's would come in handy, but whatever else I can lay my hands on, I won't be getting rid of my Marshalls. They do what they do, and they do it well.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Lodious. East Midlands does not sound that far from Northampton?

Go and talk to Blackstar. They are after all mostly ex Marshall men who are perhaps making the amps THEY thought Marshall should be making?

Got all your FX loops and widdley-diddley bits including a uniquie power control system.

Dave.

Thanks for the replies folks. I've arranged to borrow a couple of modern Marshall heads from friends in a few weeks time, so I'll do some A/B testing with my head and report back with some samples. I'm really curious to see if they can 'do' the old skool tone.

Tomdot - I've been playing a lot more with Fender amps recently (mainly a Supersonic) and really starting to like them, which has challenged a lot of my opinions of guitar tone, hence reopening the 'british' side of things. As for the 'nicey pricey' element, the head was £65 back in 1989, when everybody wanted ADA MP1's and a Quadreverb

I'll try to look at the Blackstar stuff. I always assumed it's quite 'rawk'...but mainly because it black ;-)

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I like people, it's my friends I can't stand - Larry David.
http://www.myspace.com/lodious

"I'll try to look at the Blackstar stuff. I always assumed it's quite 'rawk'...but mainly because it black ;-)"

Oh no! Well, it can DO "rawk" but both the HT and Series one ranges have a totaly clean channel and the Artisan 30 and A100 are very "hi fi " until pushed hard (especially the A100). But the latter are very "old school" handwired, no FX loops.

Dave. (Anyway! Some of it is red!)

Edited by ef37a (14/07/12 07:01 AM)

Quote:

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(Anyway! Some of it is red!)

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OK then, that's settled

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I like people, it's my friends I can't stand - Larry David.
http://www.myspace.com/lodious

Your use of the term 'Rawk' makes me think of this pedal

http://www.whatsthatdudeplay.com/2009/12/pedal-of-the-year-catalinbread-di rty-little-secret/

Which enjoys the same terminology as you . I built a clone of one of these and it's a really 'fun' little box..... The Matamp is very British sounding anyway without sounding like a Marshall or a Vox but this pedal takes it in a slightly more Marshall direction for the moments when that is required.