It occured to me today how all my imagination/spiritual guidence as a kid came right off the telly. What else did most of us in the north of England have to fullfil our spiritual leanings?

I had to hungrily soak in what was coming out of it: Monkey Magic, Jedi-ism (basically Buddhism & Taosim) from Star Wars (Yoda, Obi-wan), Dr. Who, Mr Miyagi, Kung Fu (TV series), Dungeon Master's "things are not always as they seem...", occasional Bruce Lee films.

Then there were also those brilliantly strange children's programmes (I viewed mostly secondhand) like The Clangers, Bagpuss, and Rhubarb and Custard with their ethereal visions and messages. (Yes, and Rainbow, Finger Mouse, Mr Ben, Ivor the Engine...)

I was also completely obsessed with Rupert annuals (hand-me-downs) from the 60s and 70s with their strange alternate realities. Everything was all mixed up: anthropomorphic animals (all the same size), humans, a talking plant root/bulb. It made no sense. Great!

What a brilliant way to teach kids about the 'other' things, the 'other' ways of thinking!

Unfortunately, there's a pseudo-intellectual influence in today's broadcasting that seemed to start in the 1990s. I remember Rolf's Cartoon Club was cancelled by a new head of children's ITV who said it had gone "as far as it can go". What???!!! I remember Rolf teaching kids to do animations using computers when it was a fairly new thing. (Incidentally, Rolf had a mental breakdown after it was cancelled.) Since then, I can't remember the last time I saw an old cartoon on telly. They're all new rehashed sickly sweet versions now that totally miss the point. Everything's nice and correct and boring.

I know the Teletubbies was altered to make it more 'educational' and less surreal. It quickly lost its quirkiness and now it's replaced by less original spin-offs. I've only seen Fireman Sam once, but that seemed to be about trying to teach kids about what firemen do, I suppose an attempt to teach kids about our world. But I didn't have Fireman Sam and I didn't have any problem learning what firemen do, so why is it necessary to use children's telly to teach these practical things? Why can't Fireman Sam go and put a volcano out on the moon or something???

Yes, no longer can these programmes just feed our kid's imaginations and etch potent (yet impractical) brain avenues, they have to instill useful information too. All part of mechanising our youth. I seem to remember finding it patronisingly annoying (in my own way) to be taught stuff on the sly and not be expected to notice. Even Sesame Street annoyed me a bit. But, I think most adults really forget what it's like to be a kid, completely.

Don't they remember how mesmerisingly red and shiney that new bike looked on their birthday?

Yes folks, making sense is overrated!

I'm 100% with you, man.

And in my dreams I still walk into the landscapes Alfred Bestall painted for the inside covers of Rupert annuals.

Pogles Wood - now *that* was seriously weird kid's entertainment.

I just picked up a DVD of 'The Singing Ringing Tree' - bliss!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I actually remember the Rupert Bear albums first time round... and the Wooden Tops and Flower Pot Men. The only one that bothered me as a kid was Andy Pandy. I couldn't get my head round the idea of staying in your pajamas all day!

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

I think most childrens TV nowadays is geared towards morality programming, lame hot-housing, or simply based on merchandising. It's no longer about escapism or fantasy, it's all too contrived. Balamory only needs a pre-op transexual and then it's ticked every possible Equality & Diversity box. I think TV executives treat it as a way of procuring kids for a life of soaps, inane gameshows and talent shows, and cheap imported sitcoms. However, the people who created such gems as Sir Prancealot, Noggin the Nog, & the Clangers certainly had no TV precedents in the forties & fifties when they were growing up, so maybe imagination isn't dead, it's just taking a break.

Perhaps more worrying is that TV's full of heroes & villains, yet despite these role models, everyone I know is a bit of both.

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Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

Well, I'm pleased to say Andy Pandy (it wasn't until I was an adult that I realised he was supposed to be a boy) and the Woodentops just bounced off me as a child in the 50s. Dreadful patronising rubbish. Probably the children's programme that had the most effect on me was Do Not Adjust Your Set in the 60s. It was the Must See programme at school (along with I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again on the radio). You had absolutely no credibility if you hadn't watched/heard them - much like the Goon Show for teens a few years earlier.

Is there anything that can hold kids' attention in that way now? Or is our media too diverse for any single show to get national attention? Or are the programme makers just playing it too safe?

CC

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Where do you stand on Lazytown?

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
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Did the seventies ever produce anything as psychedelic as In The Night Garden?

Quote J.A.S:

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The Clangers

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I know exactly what you mean. As a child growing up in the 1960s the Clangers made perfect, beautiful sense to me! And the visuals were so well conceived that along with the interpretive commentary they used we all knew that we could understand exactly what the Clangers were saying to each other. Amazing! And when it comes to brilliant yet surreal children's programs of that era, ones that even lots of adults couldn't resist, 'The Magic Roundabout' needs a mention. French animation with English story lines dubbed over the top. Outstanding! The genre arguably owes its parentage to Michael Bentine, who produced his own children's programs (Michael Bentinetime) using elaborate model scapes as props for his imaginative plots and associated streams of conscience. People often forget that he was himself a founding member of the Goons. Peruvian British by birth, his other interests included hovercraft, parapsychology and how science fiction becomes science fact (quite advanced stuff for the 1960s). His autobiography is worth a read.

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Strictly project and just for fun

Quote Sam Inglis:

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Did the seventies ever produce anything as psychedelic as In The Night Garden?

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I love that show. My favourite character (?) is the Pinky Ponk. Be careful Googling that and other characters' names...

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
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Quote Jennifer Jones:

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Where do you stand on Lazytown?

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Ugh!!!!!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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Quote Jennifer Jones:

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Where do you stand on Lazytown?

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Ugh!!!!!

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In fairness, I just like the songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrkQL1bX4A

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLGkuG0WWtA

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
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Quote Sam Inglis:

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Did the seventies ever produce anything as psychedelic as In The Night Garden?

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Urgh. As a "let's sell tat to preschoolers" exercise, no doubt it's great. It's a classic example of merchandising being more valuable than the thing itself.

Zingzillas OTOH is definitely worth a look. I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of musicianship and songs on that.

Quote Jennifer Jones:

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I love that show. My favourite character (?) is the Pinky Ponk.

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I can watch it. Those little Wottlingers/Pontipines make me feel weird. Like when someone plays with your hair at the back. There's a bit of everything in that show: Trumpton, Teletubbies, Rainbow.

Thing is, I'm harder to please than kids who may be watching it. I think the clarity of digital media makes everything a bit less 'otherworldly' and ethereal, but I can't exactly expect them to use old tech.

The thing is, I believe that what we like about old technology/techniques is perfectly valid. What do we like about hand made stuff, lino prints, charcoal drawings, old photos, etc? The imperfections make things more interesting I think. Even the new Rupert book digital reruns are rubbish compared to the originals with their bold prints. (Rather sad of me, but I bought one from ebay out of nostalgic curiosity!)

I even prefer the original Wallace & Gromit film (A Grand Day Out) than the later, more perfect ones (which I do like though). 'Roobarb and Custard Too' is pretty much unchanged since the old days, but still not as good. The stories are still imaginative, but I don't get why they don't show the old ones also. Same with adverts, why not show the old smash potato ads that everybody really loves? Is there so much copyright that producers think they should only fund new stuff?

P.S. I've been ill and thus've been watching far too much telly!

Quote Jennifer Jones:

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Where do you stand on Lazytown?

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That show gave me the creeps! That Jimmy Corkhill-like villain is really weird. But I remember when I first saw it, the way they ran it (choppily) was quite unusual.

Just two words sum up the excellence of children's television a few decades ago:

Oliver Postgate

That man almost single-handedly stimulated the emerging imaginations of children everywhere into areas that most had never considered before


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Quote Martin Walker:

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Just two words sum up the excellence of children's television a few decades ago:

Oliver Postgate

That man almost single-handedly stimulated the emerging imaginations of children everywhere into areas that most had never considered before


Martin

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+100

And for those of you that remember Noggin the Nog... What is a Noggin?

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Ah, may I commend the Dragons Friendly Society to you? If that doesn't make your day then nothing will!

CC

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote J.A.S:

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Rather sad of me, but I bought one from ebay out of nostalgic curiosity!

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Not at all. I'm still on a quest to fill all the gaps in my collection - though I only want the real thing, if possible. I bought two from an antiques centre a couple of weeks ago!

A rare edition is the last one put out by the work and money of enthusiasts a few years ago - I was pleased to get one of those, though it fails to capture the magic of the 'real' annuals.

As a kid, waking on Christmas morning and looking forward to finding my Rupert annual somewhere (and hoping there was a Christmas-related story in this year) was a highlight of my childhood.

As to the TV offerings of Rupert - dreadful, all of 'em. Only Paul McCartney seemed to understand the magic of Rupert.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

All of this reminded me of a Desperate Dan cartoon.

He wanted to enter a competition for a circus strong-man act, but all of the circus people knew they wouldn't have a chance against him, so conspired to deny him access to any circus (the rules stated the act had to be performed in a circus).

However, with some help and suggestions from friends he won the day... He performed in Picadilly Circus

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

When I said "Don't let them change Pingu!" in the subject I was joking, but I caught an episode yesterday and they have changed it! It's now called 'The Pingu Show', it looks different, the music has changed, but worst of all, the episodes are introduced with a voice-over to explain the stories, so they now have to make sense! Some stories are narrated all the way through too. One of the best things about it was that it was just stuff that happened with no point. Some of it quite shocking (like weeing and funny weird nastiness).

What is the reasoning behind this trend? "Oh, right millions of people love this quirky little programme, so... let's get them to change it!" Have they never heard the expression "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

I think the problem is, that most people who 'get it' (that stuff doesn't need to make sense or mean something useful) are hardly likely to have that kind of ardent academic ambition to get into positions where they can influence the decisions on this stuff. And they probably wouldn't want that sort of job anyway!

That said, Chris Sievey (aka Frank Sidebottom) did write and do a raspy-nasal voice for some original Pingu episodes. (He's probably spinning in his Papier-mâché sarcophagus now!)

Quote The Elf:

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A rare edition is the last one put out by the work and money of enthusiasts a few years ago - I was pleased to get one of those, though it fails to capture the magic of the 'real' annuals.

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Terry Jones of Monty Python fame has a very complete collection, at least containing all the golden era annuals. I remember seeing him interviewed infront of a huge bookcase full of um.

Quote:

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As a kid, waking on Christmas morning and looking forward to finding my Rupert annual somewhere (and hoping there was a Christmas-related story in this year) was a highlight of my childhood.

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I always remember thinking I should've got it before christmas so I can read the festive stories during the build up to christmas.

Quote:

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As to the TV offerings of Rupert - dreadful, all of 'em. Only Paul McCartney seemed to understand the magic of Rupert.

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I thought it was a shame when he had to be sectioned for ranting on about frogs in interviews. (Only Joking)

P.S Chris Sievey really understood the aesthetics of this kind of funny quirky 'naffness', so I bet he was pretty adamant about how Pingu should be made. It's quite a rare talent ...or perhaps it's just taste?

Quote Sam Inglis:

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Did the seventies ever produce anything as psychedelic as In The Night Garden?

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I secretly believe they gave Derek Jacobi all the drugs in Pimlico and then took a direct feed from his brain.

Reg

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Google less; read more!

Quote Sam Inglis:

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Did the seventies ever produce anything as psychedelic as In The Night Garden?

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Oh and by the way, yes: Dougal and the Blue Cat!

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Google less; read more!

Quote Sam Inglis:

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Did the seventies ever produce anything as psychedelic as In The Night Garden?

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In spades!!

For starters:
Pogles Wood (tree-living pixies who feed a plant with elderberry wine so it will tell them stories)
Egbert Nosh (where a house, garage and bin are taken for a walk in the park at the conclusion of each episode)
The Singing Ringing Tree (a princess, a dwarf, a prince turned into a bear and a talking fish)
The Magic Roundabout (nuff said!)
Tomfoolery (American animation with characters including 'The Yongy Bonghy Bo' and a goldish on stilts)
Mr Ben (a guy who habitually visits a magic fancy dress shop where money never changes hands)

There are many, many more!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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The Magic Roundabout (nuff said!)

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At risk of being pedantry 'The Magic Roundabout' was the work of Serge Danot and started life in France in the early 60s. 450 episodes were created and broadcast on French television station ORTF between 1964 and 1971. It was rehashed by the BBC from 1965, using overdubbed story lines written and performed by Eric Thompson that bore no relation to the French originals. The BBC carried on making these 'covers' until 1977, so in that sense it was a product of the 1970s but its origins were very much rooted in the mid 1960s. None of this detracts from the fact that it was pure genius which achieved a cult following amongst as many adults as the children for whom it was intended.

I suggested earlier there was a direct legacy in the development of certain children's programs from the 1960s that went directly to the Goons (via Michael Bentine). The Goons being the sandpit of creative British humor as 'damaged' by WWII. But this thread has got me thinking about all the cartoons that were made in the States even before that. For example, Tom and Jerry was created in Hollywood from 1940. Some of those scripts were pretty surreal when you think about it...

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Strictly project and just for fun