Aye 90's woz ace for EM ... outisde of charts & more diverse inventive offshoots than could shake a stick at.

I agree that the 90s/early noughties were a halycyon (and on and on) time for EM. Aphex Twin did stuff on the Peel show that is as far ahead of 'New Life' as Jimi Hendrix was from a baby with a one-stringed banjo.

I know it was featured recenetly in SOS so this might seem like a blatant suck-up, but Giorgio Moroder created a template for dance music which was only really taken up 10 years later. Why'd it take so long?

And the sampler never got a chance to properly (time)stretch it wings until breakbeat appeared, imho. Much as N-N-N-Nineteen was fun at the time. But the Art of Noise covering the Peter Gunn theme? It's wasn't innovative or clever, it was just playing an old tune with 'whacky' noises. "Oooh look, I can play Greensleeves on a cat."

Gimme Entroducing, On a Ragga Tip, It's a Jazz Thing, Death is not the End, Blue Lines, St Ettienne's So Tough, Underworld's first, Black Dog's Spanners, or Orbital's brown album (to name but a few) any day of the week.

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

Quote Richard Graham:

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Hope this doesn't come across too trollish. I really don't think all that EM stuff really got good until the late 80s.

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I am in agreement, and I don't think the statement is implicates trollish behaviours. Synth Brittania charted the progression of British Synth Pop really, and not really Electronic Music. Much of the great English Electronic Music, for example Warp Records which started up in 1989 took most of their influences from the other side of the Atlantic.

Watching Synth Brittania I got the impression many of the artists eg Vince Clarke, OMD and Human League thought their music was very interesting. IMO I find very little in their music of much interest. The use of technology was interesting, but the music itself IMO is pretty dull. On the other side of the Atlantic, a tune like Clear by Cybotron released in 1983 to my ears is infinitely more interesting than any of the stuff on Synth Brittania, and made a great impact on the progression and development of techno and also British Electronic music such as Autechre and Nightmares on Wax.

The very early material by OMD & The Human League was crap! Hence the reason they didn't hit the big time. That changed when Gary Newman shook things up and showed them how it's done, particularly for The Human League. I've never rated OMD to be honest. McCluskey is a bit of a tit...imo.

Now, Greensleeves played on a cat I'd like to hear.

Quote djangodeadman:

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Now, Greensleeves played on a cat I'd like to hear.

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It can be arranged. Do you own a cat?

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

I never understood the fascination about a group of pop wannabees bopping in front of a synth playing monophonic lines of simple child like melodies,they gave birth to mainstream synth music in the same way perhaps the guitar legends did to the average Guitar player,a synth is as much part of Music nowadays as any other machine,bands come and go and if your good enough you and your music will stand the test of time regardless of what instrument you play.

Artist like Kraftwerk may have influenced a generation of bands however they have been one of the most baffling outfits to me,who have scurried along there pretty minimal discography claiming some kind of grandfather rights to Electronic music invention for pretty little effort in terms of new music?????

The people who really changed the face of EM are the inventors of the instruments,much of which was killed by the Japanese revolution of cheap black box technology,thats still floods the market today so much why nowadays its harder to stand out as a pure electronic act because your already alienated because everyone owns a synth,talent will always shine regardless of what you choose to be your genre and the amount of technology accessible to the masses and his dog proves this.

The only point to these documentaries is to give an oppurtunity for the has beens like Mccluskey or Oakey, of synth pop to try and revive an interest in what they've done,given the longevity of artists like Depeche Mode and the fact they are still creating music today they gave very little attention to what they have achieved other than being fresh faced one finger players and they still continue to do so,when everyone else on the program seems to have floated along on a freeride or few hit wonders,they all became commercially fashionable and forgot the main ingredient to music,perhaps why many of those artists best works seem to be pre mainstream or they fizzled out,the point of gary Numan coming along and showing them how it was done myth seem to prove much of there pathetic existences,well lets copy him attitude?????

As Mcluskey put it,people think we simply pressed a button and the machine did the work,well perhaps it didn't but at the same time he claims the songs may have been the Key???

The music of that time was sterile,cold rigidly structured with less focus to the emotion,its the Instrument that is electonic not the songwriter The problem with more and people thinking they can buy a bunch of machines and have success,or the morons who call themselve producers because they can chain a few 4 bar beats together on a MPC or reason!if a songs good enough emotionally it will sound good on any instrument

Dare we say half of those involved would have never been part of that movement or there music so interesting had there not been a burn out of typical mainstream music genres,giving rise to the inventors Like Moog and Arp and synthesizers,challenging technology,making music is about as much as evolving as it is using synthesizers or guitars perhaps why most of them were simply only commercially appealing for a short time."By the mid 90s we had Oasis",I'm sure if you aksed the punk generation,theyd say the same about OMD!Stop living in your own Bubble McCluskey,much of the later stuff he did leading up to and after sugar tax was total shite and probably relied less on musicianship

Music is as much Fashion as anything else,much of the success of the pioneers of EM is more about there individuality than being part of a synth movement hence why much of those featured are simply stuck in a "Look what we did" mode.


What are we going to see next???a generation of Laptop bands influenced by kraftwerk again!I'll grab me laptop and jump on the bandwagon,leave me talent in the broom cupboard

Some interesting stuff here folks (the above incoherent ramble obviously notwithstanding).

Lots of intelligent posts I take issue with though...(deep breath)

a) Giorgio Moroder's productions were informing much underground euro disco/Hi-NRG throughout the late 70s and 80s - it's just been conveniently overlooked on account of its gayness. It's only when New Order and SAW make it generally acceptable (to NME journos and teenage girls respectively) that most people notice the lineage...

b) Andy McCluskey may indeed be a bit of a tit, but OMD were on a critical and commercial par with Joy Division c.1980, only McCluskey never hung himself and thus suffered the rock n' roll indignity of growing old. No-one likes to admit this basic truth about the carefully crafted Joy Division myth: If it was McCluskey instead of Curtis, would we be seeing arty black & white films about OMD and students wearing "Architecture & Morality" T-shirts..?

c) The often unlistenable but sometimes brilliant Warp records are Sheffield based, and their first release was Sweet Exorcist's 'Test One', created by one Richard H. Kirk of Cabaret Voltaire. So I'd say they owe a little to the original Sheffield pioneers.

(Pushes glasses up on to bridge of nose...)

d) The Prodigy and Aphex twin may have been popular and critically acclaimed in the 90s but they experienced nothing like the overall popular culture hyperbole attributed to the cretinous throwback that was Oasis.

e) And lastly...

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Gimme Entroducing, On a Ragga Tip, It's a Jazz Thing, Death is not the End, Blue Lines, St Ettienne's So Tough, Underworld's first, Black Dog's Spanners, or Orbital's brown album (to name but a few) any day of the week.

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These are textbook examples of 'electronic' or 'dance' albums which appeal to a fundamentally 'rockist' crowd. I'm only surprised that there's no Goldie, Moby or (gawd 'elp us) Bored of Canada on there.

People who judge synth/electronic music on albums are missing the point.

(Apart from 'Dare' perhaps. Which is genius)

Edited by beatmunga (20/10/09 03:31 PM)

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Quote djangodeadman:

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Now, Greensleeves played on a cat I'd like to hear.

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It can be arranged. Do you own a cat?

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Damn, no! Mind you, next door's dog is driving me pretty crazy right now. Is it as easy to tune a dog as a cat, do you think?

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I enjoyed Rip It Up and Start Again, although I've always considered Simon Reynolds to be a tad pretentious. He's at his unintentionally brilliant best when betraying his complete lack of technical knowledge, though. Particualr favourite bits are his description of the Young Marble Giants' use of a "technique known as" palm muting (as if this was a new idea which no guitarist had ever thought of before) and the revolution brought about by the introduction of a "device" called midi!

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Right on the money there djangodeadman,

In "Energy Flash" his insistence on creating microgenres of uptempo dance music ("drill & bass", "hard step" etc) become embarrassing.

And it's blindingly obvious in the very same tome that he's essentially a 'rockist' slumming it in dance music for a bit, only he'd hate to admit it.

Quote Quaver:

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I

What are we going to see next???a generation of Laptop bands influenced by kraftwerk again!I'll grab me laptop and jump on the bandwagon,leave me talent in the broom cupboard

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No need for the laptop- I'm waiting for the first chart sighting of three people with nothing but their iphones. There's enough apps out there to do the job these days. I'll bet there's already some lot out there doing it - but I'll leave someone else to do a search and punt up the link ...

I kid you not - it's going to happen, and very soon !

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

I can't wait!

No, really..!

Edited by beatmunga (20/10/09 03:57 PM)

Quote The Pearl Works:

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The very early material by The Human League was crap!

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If by "crap" you mean "the best stuff they ever did", why then I agree!

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote beatmunga:

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I can't wait!

No, really..!

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here you go then !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjx5_-SPhk0

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Quote tomafd:

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Quote beatmunga:

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I can't wait!

No, really..!

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here you go then !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjx5_-SPhk0

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Excellent find tomafd, Kraftwerk would be proud!

Nearly 30 years ago

Edited by beatmunga (20/10/09 05:12 PM)

Funky (cold medina)




Mos def da the boyz in da hood were breakin to KW's Numbers.



Kraftwerk's appreciation of their music is like Van Gogh's appreciation of his Sunflowers, Van G thought his sunflowers were so naff he put them in the loo.
Its only "aficionados" "critiks" that have valued the flowers way way beyond what VG felt their real worth was.
Similarly Kraftwerk prefer bicycles to their music (which did have a prescient message) ...
its only the fawning of various people that made KW reluctantly take on the mantle of whatever was placed on them, even then they'd prefer to be away on their bikes.







Re: musicianship, musicality, dexterity

Sometimes all that's required to give a message is one finger (or two).

Quote beatmunga:

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Quote tomafd:

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Quote beatmunga:

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I can't wait!

No, really..!

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here you go then !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjx5_-SPhk0

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Excellent find tomafd, Kraftwerk would be proud!

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here's another - less paris hilton, more roedelius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh0VX74alwk

and 4 million + views, 20k comments

[ ****** ] me ....

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Quote hogberto:

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yeah the programme was fairly good. lots missed out but that's inevitable, unless it's a 12 part series, which is probably too much to ask for.

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felt the same about the prog rock one they did. Rumour has it that there is a Krautrock one and I'm sure that'll be the same, but it's better than nothing!

All the same, it was a bit of a porn-fest on the synth front!

Quote beatmunga:

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e) And lastly...

Quote Richard Graham:

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Gimme Entroducing, On a Ragga Tip, It's a Jazz Thing, Death is not the End, Blue Lines, St Ettienne's So Tough, Underworld's first, Black Dog's Spanners, or Orbital's brown album (to name but a few) any day of the week.

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These are textbook examples of 'electronic' or 'dance' albums which appeal to a fundamentally 'rockist' crowd. I'm only surprised that there's no Goldie, Moby or (gawd 'elp us) Bored of Canada on there.

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Lol, that's probably why I liked them then... if by 'rockist' you mean 'someone who likes rock music' then why yes, I am that man!

However, if you are suggesting that I looked in a 'textbook' of electronic stuff that appeals to rock fans, and populated my list (and/or my LP/CD/Tape collection) from there, you'd be wrong. I like stuff cos I like it: but if you want to reduce my musical tastes to a stereotype, then so be it, and I don't need approval from someone who thinks the word 'rockist' is rather a clever put-down.

For the record, yes, I liked 'Timeless', tho not Saturnz Return, I've never liked Moby, and I've never heard Boards of Canada.

I get the impression that you are a bit of an elitist, BM!

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Battle flags are flown at the feet of a garden gnome.

I like the synth sounds and stuff but all the singing was absolutely diabolical. What was that 'camp' singing style all about? I suppose it was an attempt to sound british, but it just sounded really camp.

I remember that EMF guy in the 90s who did that "you're unbelievable" song singing like that anf everyone taking it seriously.

Quote Richard Graham:

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I don't need approval from someone who thinks the word 'rockist' is rather a clever put-down.

I get the impression that you are a bit of an elitist, BM!

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Sorry RG, I childishly slipped in the 'rockist' bit because you'd already admitted it winds you up...

I think it's a bit pretentious too for what it's worth. I usually say 'greaser' but many find this more offensive!

I'm sure you are neither.

As regards being an elitist, I feel I'm quite the opposite when it comes to music. I'm a populist.

As the documentary clearly points out, synth pop was relatively democratic in its creation - a logical progression from Punk's DIY ethic.

The repercussions of that are still being felt, for better or worse...

Quote ----------------------------------:

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I like the synth sounds and stuff but all the singing was absolutely diabolical. What was that 'camp' singing style all about?

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A generation growing up with David Bowie and Bryan Ferry, basically... the standard for male 80s UK pop vocals:

Before they were famous: Ricky Gervais

Amusing

Quote hollowsun:

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I have just finished watching it and found it fantastic viewing. Some of the music played from the late 70's was seriously left-field!!!

I got a bit annoyed at the end when the likes of Howard Jones and the Thompson Twins got totally discounted and pigeon holed as pointless synth pop. Whilst not synth pioneers like some of the others, each had a role to play in the emergance of synth music to the masses. Especially Howard Jones IMHO.

Oh and where was Thomas Dolby? He was one of the early brigade.

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+1 on all the above.

The whole program seemed to just grind to a halt in the mid-80s and just dismissed the likes of (as you say) Howard Jones, Dolby, The Thompsons but also Nik Kershaw, Japan, Freur (who went on to become Underworld), Fashion and many others (including - to a degree - Peter Gabriel and arguably Trevor Horn) who were all doing great stuff with the emerging synth, sampler and sequencing gear of the time ... even the much-maligned Stock, Aitken and Waterman.

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Fantastic to see Fashion mentioned, I was fortunate enough in the early eighties to be a friend of one of their management team & got to go to many of their shows as a guest I distinctly remember meeting certain support bands Kajagoogoo, Frankie Goes to Hollywood & King!!! Not to bad pedigree!

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Oh and where was Thomas Dolby? He was one of the early brigade.

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And here's the evidence.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcP2AW9JQgY

A very interesting bloke indeed.

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And Bagpuss, once he was asleep, was just a saggy old cloth cat.

Quote Guy7:

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Quote Guy7:

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Oh and where was Thomas Dolby? He was one of the early brigade.

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And here's the evidence.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcP2AW9JQgY

A very interesting bloke indeed.

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0.12 : "i started doing this stuff in the 70's there were very few of us doing it back then, mainly cause this kit was so expensive"

Damn right Bro.
Charlotte Rampling bought JMJs synths for him for Oxygene as JMJ was pretty much broke.


Affordability is why nowadays get so many interesting EM. Still having a dictionary doesn't necessarily = tonnes of Dickens




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOgDGoSYMd0&feature=related

cool how he builds it live & the MLK extract for poignancy.

He is facinating to see live. I saw him during the Sole Inhabitant tour in 2007. His stories are amazing. A typical example is............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sk1c9N3ZuM

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And Bagpuss, once he was asleep, was just a saggy old cloth cat.