Hi

I have been following the progress of various pieces on ebay recently and have come to the conclusion that people are mad!

a) £2000 for a TR808 (did not include holiday to Maldives)
b) A mint Roland A90 for £120 - such a great master keyboard cant believe such a low price
c) 2 CR78s auctioned at the same time; 1 with Kenton MIDI fitted and lots of good photos and the other without midi and a rubbish photo - guess which auction got £30 more?
d) Jupiter 4s selling for £1200, £1400 then £1850 in the last few months whilst at the same time a Jupiter 6 with Europa gets bids to £1000. I love JP4s but are they worth more than a JP6? I dont think so.

I did quite well selling vintage gear three years ago but with hindsight I could have easily doubled my money had I kept everything until now including the CS60 (RL/Kent Spong refurb) that I sold for £1650!

Couldn't agree with you more. Some people are asking silly prices for some things and strangely enough getting them.

Yeah, I've been selling a few things recently and I tend to put them on Buy it Now or Best Offer. Most things have sold for the Buy it Now price with nobody bothering to make offers. Not complaining but things are definitely a bit different than this time last year.

Don't get me started...trends, ebay and crappy mags like FM are at the cause of all this.
There is no more privacy when it comes to making music, no more secret magic..everything is out in the open and if idiots see some one used a JP4 for song "x" then they are those idiots with too much money who don't have talent but money and they must have that JP for what ever cos their fave artist uses it and it's the KEY to making you a star...then you got sad ol' hoarders who don't make music but just must collect, pay silly prices and hoard them...

Even crap gear gets stupid money on ebay...200 quid for a DX-100 any one? How about 400/500 quid for a MPC-2000XL? How about 300 for a broken 2000 with the screen lines??!!?!
What about 600 for a Juno 106!!!
Things are mad...lack of money everywhere yet people can justify 500 on a SH-101

...but they can’t afford to buy music, so they download that illegally instead


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

It's basic psychology. Anything easily available (and free, if you want to go illegal) doesn't have 'value' therefore no-one really 'wants it', in terms of gearlust, even though a lot of the time it's perfectly serviceable, if maybe lacking a bit of 'magic'. Anything old and scarce therefore develops a 'value' that's totally disproportionate to whether it's actually any good or not.

I've got an old Wasp synth (my first) I bought, new, for £180 in 1979. Still works, and I'm told I could get £600 for it these days. Nice, fat, old thing, but £600 ? You have to be kidding ...

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Quote tomafd:

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I've got an old Wasp synth (my first) I bought, new, for £180 in 1979. Still works, and I'm told I could get £600 for it these days. Nice, fat, old thing, but £600 ? You have to be kidding ...

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Yeah....£800 at least!!

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My head hurts!

If only I was prepared to sell my 808 or my 606, I could make a tidy sum!

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

I flogged my 808/909 and got a Novation Drumstation. Regardless of what the purists will tell you it does the job perfectly well. Between that and few samples I've got the 808/909 thing covered to my satisfaction, and I speak as one who owned both of the real things for many years.

Take the money and smile warmly!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Indeed I could sell and replace with a drumstation, but on a purely superficial matter



versus



I know which one I prefer!

It is more than that though, I know I could sample the 808 or replace it, but the ownership of the physical item; a machine that had caught my ear since I heard The Beastie Boy's "Licensed to Ill" album when I was 9 or ten all adds to my attachment to the big black box. It may not do much and it may have been replicated or sampled, but I do love my 808 and in time it's value may continue to increase, it might not or it might go kaput, but it is a item I enjoy having in my studio, visually and aurally.

I have a Rhodes and a Clavinet E7, both of which I could sell on and replace with an Nord Electro, but again there's just something about owning them and their unique qualities that makes me keep them, for the moment.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

I think nobody should be without a sampler. The prices of them at the minute are ridiculously low. I am surprised people bother to sell them. If they kept hold of them, surely they would be worth more because they would be harder to get and more in demand. I saw an Akai S3000XL sell for £85! - an absolute bargain for the buyer, a giveaway for the seller.
I am surprised vintage keyboards sell for high prices. Between them - not mentioning any in particular - they have been sampled or emulated to death over the years its hardly worth buying the originals.

Quote Richie Royale:

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I know which one I prefer!

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Yeah, the Novation, as you can hide it away in a rack and not have to look at it. Whereas the ugly Roland...

Quote Mixedup:

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Quote Richie Royale:

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I know which one I prefer!

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Yeah, the Novation, as you can hide it away in a rack and not have to look at it. Whereas the ugly Roland...

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There's no accounting for taste!

Speaking of which, I spotted this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Roland-Tr-808-HANDBAG-LIMITED-EDITION-tr808-909-juno -/220592969031?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_CSA_WH_Handbags&hash=item335c5d9547

and this other incarnation of the 808:

http://www.unplggd.com/unplggd/decorative-accessories/look-roland-tr808-pi llow-071914



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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote N WILLIAMS:

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I think nobody should be without a sampler. The prices of them at the minute are ridiculously low. I am surprised people bother to sell them. If they kept hold of them, surely they would be worth more because they would be harder to get and more in demand. I saw an Akai S3000XL sell for £85! - an absolute bargain for the buyer, a giveaway for the seller.
I am surprised vintage keyboards sell for high prices. Between them - not mentioning any in particular - they have been sampled or emulated to death over the years its hardly worth buying the originals.

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Got to disagree with you on this. I love samplers but I do think they are completely obsolete now, given that you can do everything and more with soft samplers and faster. On the other hand Vintage keyboards still produce a sound that is unique. There is also something about having a keyboard that you just turn on a play and get sound out of straight away, albeit limited in comparison to a softsynth, but you know I mean.

To be honest I don't get all the 'hate' here and there about this. I might be guilty of having gear that my talent will never pay justice to - but does it matter if I got the gear for free or paid a high price? Do I need the approval of others if I want to buy something?

I agree that prices have gone bonkers at the moment for anything analog with or without keys, and I certainly would not pay most of these prices. Sometimes you even seem to notice a DIRECT impact of a model being discussed in certain circles and then the prices rise (jupiter4 IMO) almost as a direct consequence. BUT if some people want to pay that? Fine, go for it! All those who have great talent and don't need a lot of gear won't buy it anyway, so where's the prob? ;-)

For example, I set my heart on a Ob-1 for quite a while now. I certainly don't need it and not in a million years will I ever think that it changes ANYTHING in the quality of my output (other than the sounds of course, he he). But I just really really like this little box. But it comes worse: this is just from looking at pics and listening to clips, I never played one in person. I know of its existence purely from the interweb! Shame on me!

Prices for them are very high so I won't buy anytime soon. But one day, when my finances are okay and I feel like it, I will just buy one. When, at this very moment, it will be a few hundred pounds above 'my imagined price', I will give a sh!t because I want to treat myself. Who cares about money (within some limits of course) if it is earned and gives me something that makes me happy? If I feel that something is important for me, then I should do it rather than dreaming all the time - we all are under the permanent threat of spontaneous combustion - and then? Finito with wet dreams about synths! Take it or leave it, and each to their own - I really mean it. I certainly don't need to justify what prices I pay for something to other 'fellows' is it? Other people just spend their money on holidays, and once they are over, they are over. Imagine that!

Rant over. It was one of these days when actually MAKING the money felt a bit harder than usual

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http://soundcloud.com/schmuckfenster

Roland A90 just went for £225 - I know because my bid was 220!

I don't mind the insanity that much. If someone wants to pay silly money for a particular bit of kit then that's fine by me. There are now so many options - want analogue? Uncle Dave or Grandpa Bob (RIP) have that covered. Sooper dooper rompler workstations? See the current big boys. VA that acts as a plugin? Mega sample library?

Or you can fork out for the real thing.... Most are now quite well looked after.

We have so much variety of kit at the moment that it's unreal. And go back 20 years or so and look at the prices - we are actually getting it for reasonable money (in real terms).

Doom and gloom? Nah ...



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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

One of the hyped areas I've noticed recently is anything vaguely keytar-related, with even a Yamaha SHS-200 fetching £180.

I just got a Wavestation A/D for £200...was surprised I was the only bidder, it's even got a new backlight fitted which is cool cos i'll sell it and fit a LED display instead and get rid of them awful whining inverters too.
I can't wait to program this thing, I know what they are capable of sounding like..I'm not a huge fan of it's presets

Edited by vinyl_junkie (01/05/10 06:10 PM)

(Interesting - haven't come across that mod before. Gotta love the Wavestation.)

Quote BJG145:

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(Interesting - haven't come across that mod before. Gotta love the Wavestation.)

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Not mine but looks great!



Here is a link on how to change the screen to a LED backlit one

http://tellun.com/wavestation/wavestation.html

TBH, the Wavey's days were numbered the second that the VSTi was released. Because when you play the vsti through a decent set of converters, you hear how the thing was supposed to sound. However much I love my units (I've had at least two now for almost two decades), they are slightly dull and a fair bit grainy. And whilst you can use the AD as an outboard processor, I'm not sure why or when you would!

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

If only Roland would see the light like Korg did and release a virtual D-50 of some sort..I know they had a D-50 for the Vari-Os but yea lol
Whats odd is instead of the price of the hardware i.e. M1 going down it's actually gone up!
I paid like 110 quid for my M1 back in 2003...I would have one again just for the keyboard and the amount of things you can put on it lol
Nice space for a Nord rack or Blofeld there haha

Edited by vinyl_junkie (02/05/10 01:06 AM)

Quote N WILLIAMS:

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I think nobody should be without a sampler. The prices of them at the minute are ridiculously low. I am surprised people bother to sell them. If they kept hold of them, surely they would be worth more because they would be harder to get and more in demand. I saw an Akai S3000XL sell for £85! - an absolute bargain for the buyer, a giveaway for the seller.
I am surprised vintage keyboards sell for high prices. Between them - not mentioning any in particular - they have been sampled or emulated to death over the years its hardly worth buying the originals.

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I'm in complete agreement with this post - I augmented my old W-30 with a 32MB Akai S-2000 recently for the princely sum of £35 - bargain

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Selected kit: W-30 x 2, XP-30, Micron, S-2000

Old gear is like old cars...not worth the effort and trouble unless you're a madman or woman!

£500 for a Yamaha SY85..???!!??

Settle down chaps:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yamaha-SY85-Keyboard-/120564228895?cmd=ViewItem& pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item1c1230231f

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Mac G5 Dual 2.3/6gb Ram, MOTU 828mkII, Yamaha 02r, DBX 286A, Logic 8, Roland SRV-3030D, Roland JV-1080, Roland JV-1010, Emu Proteus 2000, Roland SC55 MK2, Tascam DA-30 MK2

Quote valves4ever:

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Old gear is like old cars...not worth the effort and trouble unless you're a madman or woman!

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Sorry but I don't agree with that...In these days of low or zero interest rates good items of gear, especially well-preserved classics are a good investment long term. Also you get some use out of them, and some pleasure....which is more than you can say for your ISA's !!

How about £36... for a plectrum?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VERY-RARE-JELLIFISH-Plectrum-Circa-2002-no-longer-ma de-/180507538405

Cheap at twice the price!

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

things have become super hyped on ebay , i bought a rhodes chroma for £1500 (mint ) and the same week a guy claimed he sold one for $9000 on ebay , he still doesnt have feedback from the deal and to be honest people need to wake up a bit about all this as people are hyping prices on there deliberately , dealers are buying goods from themselves and inflating ' the going rate weekly ' seriously you wouldnt believe whats going on but it is , ebay = FAKE prices , ebay has blinded people , i have sold £3000 worth of gear on ebay over the last year , the gear was all advertised on sos at a value of £2000 in total for 2 months ! i had maybe a few mails but no sales , i put it on ebay and it makes more than i ask as people are braindead and compete , i still prefer sos sales , ebays a parasite , to be honest people are utterly brainless now , they cannot see what ebay is doing and also how in the end none of us are better off , inflation is destructive no matter what when it is fueled by stupidity and greed , an idiot and his money are easily parted.I have been offered jp8's for £3000 many times in the last 10 weeks after asking for one on forums yet people ask double this on ebay , on ebay idiots just act greedy , its all greed fueled by morons with more money than sense really , the fashionable synth buyers are pac mentality ' lets clone this sound ' artists , one week its numan and the jp4 , then its boc and sh101 , then its 'he uses this ' and so a whole scene of idiots buy a certain machine and compete with each other , its why much music sounds so fake and # karioki ' we have a whole generation of karioki electronic artists trying to sound like a certain idolised artist , none of them get anywhere , when the trend ends or wears off or shifts jp4 will be £700 again , you watch , these things just dont sustain themselves.Anyone wonder why so many jp4's go on sale ? and why there are so many analogues for sale ? its all fickle and fake this hyped up price wars.I suggest of anyone here wants to actually make music and release it , get label interest and be creative and actaully finish tracks you start by deleting a link to ebay and stop acting like lemmings.

Edited by bobsyour uncle (15/05/10 01:14 AM)

I agree completely that prices are crazy. I've recently been looking for a small mixer as the cheapest wasy to add mic pres, and wonder why someone thinks I want to pay £200 for an 8 channel soundcraft spirit, when just underneath is a 16 channel 200BVE with flight case for both it and the psu for £120. Guess which one's on my desk.

And I don't know whether people are deceitful liars or just idiots, but 90% of music stuff auctions I look at have completely false descriptions, or the good old "If you're looking at this then you know what a great piece of kit it is!!!".

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thenovasons.bandcamp.com

Quote Richie Royale:

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If only I was prepared to sell my 808 or my 606, I could make a tidy sum!

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Go on, sell both them Peugeots!

Jen SX1000 £320 with two days to go - eek!

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Jonny

I picked up a Yamaha 03D digital mixer on there for £150.

I just don't get the toy keytar thing. This SHS-10 has apparently been bid up to nearly £600 already. WTF?

Quote infiniteloop:

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£500 for a Yamaha SY85..???!!??

Settle down chaps:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yamaha-SY85-Keyboard-/120564228895?cmd=ViewItem& pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item1c1230231f

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Bloody hell, I bought mine second hand four years ago for half that price!

I'm obviously missing out on some easy money here....

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www.alterzero.com || "Semper in excremento sum... solum profunditas variat"

Quote BJG145:

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I just don't get the toy keytar thing. This SHS-10 has apparently been bid up to nearly £600 already. WTF?

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It went for £565, crazy considering there is one on buy it now for £199, boxed.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Around two years ago I bought one of these for 5 pounds from a car boot sale in Doncaster and I sold it on eBay for 95 pounds. Maybe I should have held on for a couple of years!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote bobsyour uncle:

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the fashionable synth buyers are pac mentality ' lets clone this sound ' artists , one week its numan and the jp4 , then its boc and sh101 , then its 'he uses this ' and so a whole scene of idiots buy a certain machine and compete with each other , its why much music sounds so fake and # karioki ' we have a whole generation of karioki electronic artists trying to sound like a certain idolised artist .

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Yep. Most of the really interesting developments in electronic music have come about by people using some cheap piece of [ ****** ] in an interesting way, usually because both the manual and the user interface were so crap that the only things that came out of it were ... not what you after, but kind of interesting, and different. Hence the whole TB303 thing and numerous other fads that have since come and gone. Or not - sadly.

I don't get it. The whole thing about synths (and then samplers) for me, starting in the late 70s, was that you could get a whole lot of NEW, interesting, weird, original, and personal, sounds out of them, and the whole point was to sound like no-one else, as far as possible. In the days when synths didn't have any memories you didn't have the choice, anyway.

Now the youth seem to want to sound like someone else, most of the time. [ ****** ] knows why... I guess they're aware that music, as a cultural force, is a spent old hack, best days long gone - so instead of actually trying to do something genuinely new (and not just yet another variant of a 'dance music' form that's still, basically, the same template that appeared round 1987), they just want to retread ground from the 'glory days', and think that buying some big old monster from the past will automatically generate that 'vibe'.

Which is bollocks, of course. The vibe isn't in the gear, it's in people and the times they live in, and how that affects their creativity. So get out there and make some NEW music, for chrissakes. With anything that comes to hand, including the kitchen sink, a hammer, and a cheap mic, if necessary.

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Quote tomafd:

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I don't get it. The whole thing about synths (and then samplers) for me, starting in the late 70s, was that you could get a whole lot of NEW, interesting, weird, original, and personal, sounds out of them, and the whole point was to sound like no-one else, as far as possible. In the days when synths didn't have any memories you didn't have the choice, anyway.

Now the youth seem to want to sound like someone else, most of the time. [ ****** ] knows why... I guess they're aware that music, as a cultural force, is a spent old hack, best days long gone - so instead of actually trying to do something genuinely new (and not just yet another variant of a 'dance music' form that's still, basically, the same template that appeared round 1987), they just want to retread ground from the 'glory days', and think that buying some big old monster from the past will automatically generate that 'vibe'.

Which is bollocks, of course. The vibe isn't in the gear, it's in people and the times they live in, and how that affects their creativity. So get out there and make some NEW music, for chrissakes. With anything that comes to hand, including the kitchen sink, a hammer, and a cheap mic, if necessary.

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Well, the kitchen sink isn't too inventive anymore, either, but I do get your point. Just surprised that the old 'dance music is boring' cliché is thrown in now. I think electronic music is one if not THE most inventive type of music, especially in the last 20 years. And there is still new stuff coming that sounds like nothing before in my opinion. Of course a lot of people jump on it, and many more are doing it "a bit" as a hobby which often shows in the quality.

But the first time I heard dubstep (as a more recent example), it really sounded like nothing before to me. Not a big fan, but it really felt like something that progressed from different styles into something really new.

I do not see too much relation to high prices of hardware and the "apparent stagnation of innovation". And I honestly doubt that it is the "unimaginative youth" that drives them up.

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http://soundcloud.com/schmuckfenster

Quote Remeniz:

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I picked up a Yamaha 03D digital mixer on there for £150.

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Please point me in that Lucky corner of fleabay,I've been trying to get hold of an 03D for over 12 Months being outbid on almost everyone thats been up on ebay in that time,the lowest price one I've seen go in that time was 170 quid recently,but it needed repairing as it had a whole host of Faults,never seen another go for less than 275-300,That must have slipped under the radar at that giveaway price

Guys there is one reason and one reson only synth prices are so high.

Because people will pay such high prices.

Sure, skintos like me and you get excluded sometimes but this is the way it is. Also known as supply and demand. For every year that goes by the limited initial run of J4's or MiniMoogs etc, well fewer survive. Some get thrown in skips as people think there worth nothing now some break and dont get repaired etc and it ends up where at any time there are say 1000 J4s in the world and the number decreases each year.

Now for supply. FIrstly I must say I love the convenience of VSTs. I switch on my DAW and all my setting load up with no fuss. Great. However once you play a jupiter or a moog side by side with a VST there really is no comparison. VSTs have replaced digital synths 20 times over for me (inc samplers) however they just cant do analogue somehow. Yeah they capture the sound but not the magic. So, as more and more people realise this who start out with VST set ups the supply gets bigger and bigger. Suddenly 20,000 people world wide want 1000 J4s. Needless to say the prices go up and up.

To go against the above paragraphs genres of my music circles (electronic dance music) have changed to accommodate vsts. Trance came about when the JP8000 was launched and all this electro house is another genre that is created around VST technology. Much like Jive bunny and the other 6 million sample based tunes came about coincidentally as the Akai S1000 was first sold. Music always changes to reflect technology. So im left wondering just how useful a Juno 60 or J4 really is these days, certainly in my genres. Yeah they may well sound far better but thoese sounds arent really what I need anymore.

So, whats certain here?

* Prices are high, but I feel reasonable for a historic piece of music tech.
* Roland wont make any more
* Prices will get high as buyer double in numbers and synths decrease
* Buy one try one and if you dont like it sell it for what you paid for it. IE buy a brand new virus ti for £1600 and sell it in 3 months for a grand. Buy a minimoog for £2000 or whatever and sell it in three months for £2000. Make no loss.
* I like many others wish this antique technology sold for £200 a pop, difference is I understand why they don't.

Quote kolakube:

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* Roland wont make any more

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But maybe Korg will...

http://www.korg.co.jp/Product/Dance/monotron/welove/

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Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!

Looked at your link, never heard of any of them from back in the day. Mind I wasn't that familiar with the Korg range.

If these are new endeavours much like the DS Mofo then that isn't what I meant by make any more. Sorry I should have been more clear.

I meant roland wont make a Jupiter 4, 101 etc etc again so korg wont make their poly800 for an EG again meaning the demand will still get more and more for the old stuff meaning the price will always rise.

Sure they could make new analogue gear. Well not roland, there to busy recycling the JP8000 into a different thing each year and claiming it a new synth - sigh!

All the new analogue stuff never seems to match the old stuff IMO except perhaps the Voyager. Id much rather have a Pro 5 over a Pro 08 or any other dave smith stuff. Cant think of any other modern-day classics. Had an Andromeda and thought is sounded plastic.

Quote Quaver:

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Quote Remeniz:

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I picked up a Yamaha 03D digital mixer on there for £150.

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Please point me in that Lucky corner of fleabay,I've been trying to get hold of an 03D for over 12 Months being outbid on almost everyone thats been up on ebay in that time,the lowest price one I've seen go in that time was 170 quid recently,but it needed repairing as it had a whole host of Faults,never seen another go for less than 275-300,That must have slipped under the radar at that giveaway price

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My 03D was listed as faulty. The listing stated that one of the inputs was temperamental. After taking a look it turns out that the phantom power was turned on on one of the channels, thats all.

It wasn't faulty at all.

Quote kolakube:

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Looked at your link, never heard of any of them from back in the day. Mind I wasn't that familiar with the Korg range.

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LOL! Sorry I should have explained - this page (actually sponsored by Korg themselves) shows a variety of user-modifications to Korgs latest analogue monosynth. Now I think on several levels this represents a very progressive attitude on Korg's part, and has to bode well for the future of analogue synths.

http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=571

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Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!

Adam,

How I wish Roland would re make the Jupiter's and junos. But they wont.
Even back in the 90s where they could have remade the 303 they were dumb enough no too, and instead let a load of other small companies enter the market and fill the gap.

The Novation Bass Station that was like a modern day 101 sold like hot cakes and spawned a company who would later release the supernova and dent the JP8000's sales. Quasimidid popped up too and did quite well also. Lets not forget Control Synths Deep Bass Nine cooly names to mimic the star trek show of the time.

Roland just didn't have any idea what there customers wanted and this was demo's by the JD800. A D10 with faders as recently described on SOS was not what customers wanted at all.

I know it costs alot of money to make these things but surely with Jupiter 4s now changing hands for a grand and a half they could make replicas? ANd I mean exact analogue not VA bullshit!

It would seem the only company seems to be Moog filling this gap. As was disappointed with the profit 08. It didn't replace the 5 at all. It was like a totally new synth riding on the rep of a past king.

To summarise Id much rather have a classic pro 5, restore it, MIDI it and cherish it as opposed buy the new range of analogue stuff.

Id guess so would every one else, thus explaining the never ending rising prices of classic analogue synths.

Quote kolakube:

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As was disappointed with the profit 08. It didn't replace the 5 at all. It was like a totally new synth riding on the rep of a past king.

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That last bit just isn't borne out by the facts - but you're right in one respect, it IS a totally new synth. The Prophet name has been applied to several instruments all of which sounded different. The Prophet 600, the 2000 sampler, The Prophet VS - none sounded anything like the '5 or each other. The '08 is another fine, affordable, synth in the Dave Smith tradition. It's not meant to be a Prophet 5 and DSI don't say it is. If you want the P5 sound, you need to get a P5. If DSI made a modern Prophet 5 clone it'd probably cost well over 5 grand.

I feel that the actual marketplace for a modern top flight VCO based analog poly synth isn't as big as the noises made on internet fora might suggest. People talk about having a new Roland analog - but what most people seem to want is a Jupiter 8 for £500. If Roland did make one, it'd cost a lot and would probably sell only a few hundred units per year. The J8 was 4 grand in @1985 - about 10 grand today.The Juno 60 was about a £1000 when released (about £2500 now) - I wonder how many they'd sell now that VIs are around?

Moog made 500 Voyager Old Schools (at @2 grand each) but they didn't exactly fly off the shelves despite the heat on the web for a 'proper' new Minimoog. And it IS a fantastic new Minimoog.

Regards

Stephen

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New Henry Fool album (Featuring Phil Manzenera and Jarrod Gosling) out now. https://www.burningshed.com/store/henryfool/

Where the hell did you get them prices from mate???

Tell you what. Ill do you a deal. Il buy a Jupiter 8 for £4000 and sell it to you for £9000 meaning you save a grand.

Also Ill buy a Juno 106 for £500 and sell it to you for £1500 meaning you save another grand.

Honestly, your prices are way out!!!

You raise fair points re the prophet. I hadn't thought of it like that.

If roland made a new Juno 106 that was actually like the original not some bastardisation I think it would selll well and command a reasonable price tag of around £1000.

If they made a J4 and a J8 with a separate MIDI interface I think they would get around £4000 for the J8.

I bet only a few hundred a year would sell but sell they would.

Roland are not interested in this however. They are only interested in mass production getting old technology like the JP8000 and recycling them to new cases and pretending there new.

How the god of dance has fallen. Sigh!

I doubt a new Jupiter 4 would make economic sense. For a start, I suspect the true market for it would be very small indeed. In our confined enthusiasm it might seem that the whole world would march to Roland’s door for Jupiter re-makes, but I suspect the real numbers would be woefully small (put me down for a JP-8, if I’m wrong!). As an example, despite all of the buzz surrounding Moog’s re-make of the Taurus bass pedals, only 1000 are to be produced – and I have seen them still for sale on retailer’s sites, so as far as I am aware they are not yet all sold to end users. I doubt that sort of figure would keep a company like Roland in business.

The JD-800 was a fine example that ‘build it and they will come’ doesn’t always work. The world said it loved the D-50. The world said it loved knobs and sliders. The world said it would love a meaty-looking, knob-laden synth, with the (enhanced) sound of the D-50. The world saw the JD-800 and turned its back, largely due to the price tag, I suspect – I count myself in each of those numbers.

Roland clearly learned their lesson and went on to produce the incredibly successful JV synths that sported many things we purportedly hated in a synth – windowed parameter access, knob-less, sample-based with expensive waveform cards and a convoluted shared effects system. We fell over ourselves to buy the things.

The large manufacturers are not stupid, and they will doubtless do their homework. If Roland felt they could make a healthy profit from it they’d be pushing TB-303s, Jupiter 4s and TR-909s out of the factory door right now.

As you’ve discovered for yourself, software plug-in instruments are flexible, convenient, plentiful, reliable and cheap – all of the things that our beloved old analogue monsters are not. We have a choice that was not available to us in the days when our old instruments were made – and we (as a market) seem to be choosing plug-ins (though I consider myself to be a bad example of the market, since I keep on buying hardware too!).

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Hi Elf, some great points.

Mind I don't see how anyone could turn a brand new Jupiter 8 down even if its 4 grant. Think of it, all new and under warranty!! lust!!!!

I think the JD-800 failed because People wanted a simple synth with a fat sound. Not a complex D10 with sliders.

I think what was wnated back then was a Juno 107 or 206 if you like. IE a 106 mk 2. On a Juno you tweak a slider and the sound changes drastically. On the JD you need a degree to work out which slider. I think the JD 800 was intimidating and therefore not what the public wanted at all although near.

Quote:

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The large manufacturers are not stupid, and they will doubtless do their homework. If Roland felt they could make a healthy profit from it they’d be pushing TB-303s, Jupiter 4s and TR-909s out of the factory door right now.

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I agree these days but back in the mid 90s roland missed there chance and allowed novation to get a foothold with the excellent but simple bass station as a gap had been created in the market. Imagine if Roland released the SH101 mk 2 just 6 months before the bass station. No more novation perhaps?

Again, I agree, with VSTs these days perhaps it isn't so black and white. Musical tastes have since adapted away from analogue and in favour of VSTs.

Hey, I love VSTs, as said so instant. But they cant do analogue at all. All depends if you need those sort of sounds or not I suppose.

I need a jupiter 4 to shut my eyes and pretend im Human League Lets face it, no VA or VST will get me there

We need a official synth survey of what people want and would pay lol

Wasn't there one a while back on that German website Amazona or what ever it's called where Behringer asked what synths people would like to be re-made and no1 was the Juno-106 or 60...and Behringer did a little CAD mock up called the "Phat 106"
To be honest Behringer could make them and cheap too, they have a massive in-house manufacturing plant and are the only company that still make BBD's which are used in analogue delay pedals

Kola,

Please re-read Stephen's post - he is saying that 25 years ago, something cost 4grand which would equate to about 10k in modern money (allowing for inflation, etc). Which is right - I'm also old enough to remember those days ... sadly ...



And will you please stop referring to the JD800 as a 'D10 with sliders'! I've owned or used almost every D-series synth and the JD is a totally different sound with MUCH better programming facilities. It may not be to everyone's taste but it was (arguably) the pinnacle of Roland's S+S efforts.

But the killer here is the fact that the market is too small - a true analogue synth is in the 'cottage industry' section of the market. Of course Roland want to mass produce kit - they are in the business of staying afloat! If people are genuinely in the market for real analogue, then I'd advise them to look at the modular market - which is a dream for the synth purist as people are building all sorts of funky modules. Some new, some re-creations of older units. The only reason that I don't go down this path myself is that I know it would consume way too much time - which I don't have at the moment. One day though...

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

Quote kolakube:

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Where the hell did you get them prices from mate???

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What Dave B said.

Stephen

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New Henry Fool album (Featuring Phil Manzenera and Jarrod Gosling) out now. https://www.burningshed.com/store/henryfool/

ah right. Sorry I thought you were saying how much you paid in Sweden for synths. I was thinking of setting up an export business.

Dave

I have a JD800 and thought the sound was very average and typical of other 'D' synths. The D50 to me actually sounded better.

Horses for courses I suppose. The main point I was making was the JD800 was not what people wanted at all. It was Rolands lost in translation attempt at giving us what they thought we wanted.

Id gladly make room for a free JD800 so don't want to bash it too much but by the same token it was no Juno or Jupiter and had a lot more in line with a D10.

Quote kolakube:

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ah right. Sorry I thought you were saying how much you paid in Sweden for synths. I was thinking of setting up an export business.

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Oh thanks for reminding me to change my account - back in Blighty now.

Actually not a bad idea. Gear is rare over there:-)

Regards

Stephen

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New Henry Fool album (Featuring Phil Manzenera and Jarrod Gosling) out now. https://www.burningshed.com/store/henryfool/

In fairness to Kola, I also felt the JD-800 to be pretty much a ‘D10 with sliders’ when I first encountered it.

…and…

In fairness to Dave B I know I was wrong.

I suspect I was just disappointed that it wasn’t the ‘new JP-8’ I was hoping for. I also feel the factory sound set didn’t help, which is how most of us form our first impressions a synth. Some of the later card-based sounds are much better.

Multi-timbrally the JD does sound anaemic, but that wasn’t its strength, any more than it’s the strength of a Korg MonoPoly – and that’s a great synth too.

Later, when it was very unfashionable, I picked up a mint JD-800 at a knockdown price, complete with a full collection of cards, and for what I paid I was happy. I see it very much as an ‘icing on the cake’ synth, though I don’t feel it does much in the way of cake and marzipan. It has some beautifully delicate sounds that float through a mix like so much fairy dust.

Four grand for a new JP-8, hmm? I’d want it, no question about that, but would I pay it? I’d have to say ‘no’, but if was standing in front of it I feel my resolve would waver. These are the kind of items you buy outside the realms of common sense. They certainly don’t make economic sense.

But you can keep the Juno series. I lived a long time with a Juno 6 and I have no burning desire to return to one!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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Four grand for a new JP-8, hmm? I’d want it,

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Problem is (as I attempted to demonstrate obviously unsucessfully ) 4 grand was the 1985 price - that'd be 10 grand at today's prices.

And there'd be no economics of scale with such a tiny market so it could be much, much more.

Stephen

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New Henry Fool album (Featuring Phil Manzenera and Jarrod Gosling) out now. https://www.burningshed.com/store/henryfool/

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Quote The Elf:

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Four grand for a new JP-8, hmm? I’d want it,

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Problem is (as I attempted to demonstrate obviously unsucessfully ) 4 grand was the 1985 price - that'd be 10 grand at today's prices.

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I was just going with that as the dream-price minimum. I agree – the real price for a re-make would be much higher. I was just saying, even at that price I’d say ‘no’, and I doubt I’d be alone. The market for synths at anything like those price levels is incredibly small.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote The Elf:

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These are the kind of items you buy outside the realms of common sense. They certainly don’t make economic sense.

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Sadly I no longer allow myself such a luxury ... one of the few advantages of age is that I now know that there are very few pieces of gear out there that will, actually, help me write better music, and that blowing a bunch of cash on some old thing that I lusted after many, many years ago, will, definitely, be regretted. Better music comes from working harder, not spending money on some old piece of [ ****** ].

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

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..... one of the few advantages of age is that I now know that there are very few pieces of gear out there that will, actually, help me write better music, and that blowing a bunch of cash on some old thing that I lusted after many, many years ago, will, definitely, be regretted. Better music comes from working harder,

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^^ Very well said. However can I ask how old you are? Im 37 and still salivate over old gear. I know everything you have said is true but like a heroin addict I cant resist for long.

An extreme example, I bow down infront of hardware samplers yet hate using them as there damned right awkward compared to bundled DAW soft samplers. If I do something on my Akai S1000 it takes days, where as to use Abletons Simpler for the same job (insert your DAWs sampler here) takes minutes. I know this for a fact yet still...

To add to this I am very happy with the music I can produce using only VSTs. As much as VSTs don't sound as good as real deal kit musical tastes have now adapted to like the sounds of VSTs.

So why cant I break away from the pull of classic kit?? What age does this happen? Cant wait

Quote kolakube:

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So why cant I break away from the pull of classic kit?? What age does this happen? Cant wait

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Cos you love the aesthetics too much lol
The great thing with personal non commercial studios is it's only your vision...most people would look at my setup and think it's a piece of poo and why on earth I'm still using a Akai sampler...for me it works
That's why I don't get the gear hype...every one wants the same stuff, copy each other and prices go mad. Gearslutz and Future Music are all to blame right lol

wow Martin - Thats maximum use of your space haha.

wheres your monitors??

Quote kolakube:

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wheres your monitors??

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You don't want to know mate lol They are behind me on temporary speaker stands aka old chairs LOL I still check mixes in the other room on my B&W's too

Going back to the gear lust thing..some of my favorite albums were made on by today's standards mega mediocre gear and it sounds fantastic!
For example Morcheeba's "Who Can You Trust"....man oh man, no fancy pre-amps or any of that jazz..infact they used mostly Shure SM57's and it's not just a fantastic album musically but production wise I think it sounds absolutely fantastic.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/dec97/morcheeba.html

Quote kolakube:

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wow Martin - Thats maximum use of your space haha.

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There's still a space under the Alpha Juno for a S-950 too LOL! and a small line only mixer under that lot for the 950 and 3200XL

It's not just synths that are fetching bonkers prices on eBay. I saw an AKG D19 go for £380 the other week. OK, so they're kind of funky and the Beatles used them, but for a dynamic mic that has fairly limited uses in the modern world, that's just weird.

(Didnt want to divert this thread however no one has updated in over a week)

Hey Vinyl Junkie,

I love the pic of your set up. I could look at hardware set ups like that all day. Show me a photo of a super spec'd studio and it turns me of. But a Raw, about the music set up like yours rocks.

Do you use all of your kit or do some things sit idle?

Quote kolakube:

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(Didnt want to divert this thread however no one has updated in over a week)

Hey Vinyl Junkie,

I love the pic of your set up. I could look at hardware set ups like that all day. Show me a photo of a super spec'd studio and it turns me of. But a Raw, about the music set up like yours rocks.

Do you use all of your kit or do some things sit idle?

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Thanks mate

There are some things that are getting little use like the JX3P which is mainly down to the fact that every time you power it up it switches into omni mode and the only way to turn it off is by creating a midi loop aka get the mini in and stick it in it's midi out and play 6 notes...pain in the ass but when I want a certain string sound I use it and it's not worth selling, it sounds nice when it is used.

Also the Wavey-gravy station is getting little use..more as a preset player, find it a pain to program and can get similar/better results quicker from the Blofeld

The AMT-8 is NOT getting used any more cos it broke down and will not power up correctly, haven't got round to trying to fix it..I think it's a faulty power regulator.

Also last but not least is the 3200XL which would be getting a [ ****** ] load more use if it wasn't racked so I could actually go round sampling sounds! Which is why I want the 950 also a huge flaw imo of the 3200 is having the sampling inputs on the back...screw that

Everything else though gets constant use

I did use the 3p and 3200 recently actually..but the tracks made weren't worth saving though imo, I do that a lot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AUctYJchjY

Hi..I've got a digital plectrum.....yours for £99 inc postage....email me...

Quote valves4ever:

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Hi..I've got a digital plectrum.....yours for £99 inc postage....email me...

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My air guitar is still better lol Any one want to start the bidding at 500?

I see.

Im not sure Id have bought the wave station as there is a VST replica that im sure your aware of with the Korg Digital suit. You get the M1 too. As much as I love the hands on feel of hardware I don't see how you get that with a 5 button rack mount.
Im sure you had your reasons to buy one that im not aware of though. Im also sure if anyone can crack it, you can.

Re the S3200. Why not get a set of extension cables and leave them permanently set up to the inputs but because there a half meter long can be used under your rack? Just an idea. I love the idea of hardware samplers but find them to slow to use next to Abletons Simpler. Still VSTs are just not as sexy as the real thing but the I give my hear a shake and remember its about the end result and not how I get there.
A lot of peeps go one about how the Emulator 3 is the best sounding sampler ever and the E4XTs great too. But then I wonder how good Simpler would be if I rammed it though the UAD2 Fasto plug.

As you know I went totally VST only and have gone that way. Even though I have been really busy setting up my record label I have still managed to actually finnish a tune!! This is amazing for me and in over 20 years of production on and off an absolute first. Speaks volumes about workflow.

The flip side of this is whilst VSTs are super convenient and speedy, I find the sound very one dimensional. A Juno, 101, Jupiter 4, MiniMoog etc etc would literally put to shame my best VST.

Im still undecided where I actually sit with the hardware / software debate. Defiantly I use a hybrid approach these days.

Tying back in with your photo, VSTs just aret sexy at all. Your pic reminded me of that.

Best PM or Email me your reply mate. Were well of track here or the thread

Quote Adam Inglis:

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Quote kolakube:

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Looked at your link, never heard of any of them from back in the day. Mind I wasn't that familiar with the Korg range.

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LOL! Sorry I should have explained - this page (actually sponsored by Korg themselves) shows a variety of user-modifications to Korgs latest analogue monosynth. Now I think on several levels this represents a very progressive attitude on Korg's part, and has to bode well for the future of analogue synths.

http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=571

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Is it much use without MIDI though ?

Ah, you're in Vintage forum-land here Kola. Only 7 of us ever come here - off topic is good topic!

That's a nice working environment in those photos, Mr Junkie. It's good to see a few quirky bits of a gear in a studio.

When I was using hardware samplers I put all of their I/O, including sampling inputs, onto my patchbay to make them easy to use - that makes a big difference to the convenience of use and makes them a more creative tool.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I do all my sample recording and preparation in my Mac or PC anyway. Record it in Cubase, edit and loop it in Seamless Looper and import the Wavs into my E5000 for arrangement into a program.

Straying further off topic, most of my sound-design is with my analog synths to be truthful - a sampler generally reproduces 'real' sounds in my rigs, and like Vinyl Junkie my Wavestation has become a preset box (sometime soon I'll get a microQ and leave the W/S at home...)

Steve

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arK music

arkie

If your after 'that hardware sampler' sound you may want to sample via your E5000. Half of the colour if not more is usually done on the way in.

Elf

Only 7 of us post here

Thanks ELF, I have been debating getting a patch bay for quite a while.
I should also point out that the "studio" is in the tiny spare room, my room which houses all my records (about 1000 I think now), turntables and bed is a lot nicer and better laid out...which is why I wanted another sampler in that room so I can take snips like kicks and so on when I hear them or if I'm messing with the tape recorder.

@ Arkie I love the Micro Q, this is my second one I had. At first I got it when I was quite new to synths and also when the OS was still in a unfinished state..needles to say A) I didn't get it aka a bit too complex for me at the time and B) The buggy os drove me crazy not to mention fry my tweeters..second time around is a lot better lol
The OS has matured and so has the sound programer hahah
Blofled hough...now that can sound very Wavestation/D-50 if you want it and I do
Here are some digital type patches I made with it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0uGxdmCkR8

That hidden corner is elusive to me as well - though I did miss an 02R with ADAT cards and meterbridge for £475! and a MOTU 24io for £375, one of those Sony CD/Hard Disk Recorders which lets you copy tunes from a CD to the Hard Drive, and has a USB connection for £41.

I did get an Akai Z8 with full RAM and 80 gig USB with samples loaded for £250 so the bargains do turn up from time to time, but they are quite rare. Someone on here got a XV5080 for something like £200

One thing for me - anything bought or sold on the SOS Reader's Ads has been absolutely first class. Even had some very helpful and supportive communications with sellers (drummer/composer Chris Blackwell was one - a real gentleman) and everyone behaves impeccably. Because I suspect, like me, they are all really into the gear and the music and the desire to help each other out. OK, there are the odd scammers on SOS, but they are soon exposed and "flung out". Unfortunately there is little of this on eBay (I have had more positive than negatives there, but boy, did the negatives take the biscuit!) So this is one the last refuges of the honest, decent, caring sharing muso. Bless you all, ha ha !

...the blofeld 'desktop' orientation would be a bit tricky in a rack on the road. It's a shame there isn't a rack version!

great sound design BTW! Have you done anything similar for your microQ?

Steve

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arK music

CS80 on there at the moment! Just shy of six grand and the reserve hasn't been met yet.

Clearly it's not mine! Just heads up for you to drool over!

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote arkie-boy:

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...the blofeld 'desktop' orientation would be a bit tricky in a rack on the road. It's a shame there isn't a rack version!

great sound design BTW! Have you done anything similar for your microQ?

Steve

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Tell me about it! I wish it was rack mounted too along with having better output convertors and multiple outs but hey ho.

Thanks for the compliments, I think the closest you can have to that is by having a Waldorf XT the only thing with the XT and all microwaves is OSC 1 and 2 have to share the same wavetable wheres the Blofeld can have independent wavetables for osc 1 and 2 but the XT has a nicer grainier sound imo among other things like all those knobs and advanced envelopes.
The Micro Q can get near the Blofeld but only has 2 wavetables which are racked and stacked with lots of different waves so scanning through then doesn't sound as nice imo.
The Micro Q is surprisingly good at bass though and I think it's analogue modeled oscillators sound nicer.
Fast forward to 9.01 > Every synth sound there is from my Micro Q (Piano from EXS24)
http://soundcloud.com/martin_bell/my-tracks
while track at 3.02 has blofeld sounds other than them jx strings

Still some bargins to be had on e-bay.....just picked up a Roland SynthPlus 10(Essentially an Alpha Juno) for just over £100 to add to the JX-8P I bought for £120 a couple of years ago.

Thats two Roland analogues for less than £250 at a time when other Roland gear is so overpriced - £1k for a 909.

I know they don't have sliders but with something like the Marc Schreier editor you can still create sounds with ease.

1k for a 909 is a bargain mate. £1,350 more like is usual price if sourced from UK.

Of course you can do what my mate did and buy a 303 from the states for £3/400 cheaper only to get hammered twice that by import tax which I never knew applied to second hand goods but apparently it does.

Quote kolakube:

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1k for a 909 is a bargain mate. £1,350 more like is usual price if sourced from UK.

Of course you can do what my mate did and buy a 303 from the states for £3/400 cheaper only to get hammered twice that by import tax which I never knew applied to second hand goods but apparently it does.

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1k is no bargain for a smelly 909...You can pick em up elsewhere other than ebay for no more than 1k
To add to insult when my mate sold his 909 and 303 on ebay he got bugger all for them and told me he sould of set a reserve lol

Good coop on the Synth Plus 10, I paid £70 for mine on ebay

Ebay is a false economy...just put the word "vintage" and "cool" on any piece of c*ap and some idiot will buy it

Quote:

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Ebay is a false economy...just put the word "vintage" and "cool" on any piece of c*ap and some idiot will buy it

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Hence why its the best place to sell anything :]

Quote pocklefo:

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...to add to the JX-8P I bought for £120 a couple of years ago.

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One of Roland's most underrated synths IMO. A true gem. The DCOs of the JX-8P/10/MKS-70 have a very specific sound - lovely for big rolly-poly pads, hopeless for power-synth sounds.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote pocklefo:

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Still some bargins to be had on e-bay.....just picked up a Roland SynthPlus 10(Essentially an Alpha Juno) for just over £100 to add to the JX-8P I bought for £120 a couple of years ago.

Thats two Roland analogues for less than £250 at a time when other Roland gear is so overpriced - £1k for a 909.

I know they don't have sliders but with something like the Marc Schreier editor you can still create sounds with ease.

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I was watching that Synth Plus 10, but I don't really need it; the price was good though.

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http://soundcloud.com/richie-royale
http://www.mixcrate.com/richieroyale

Quote pocklefo:

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to add to the JX-8P I bought for £120 a couple of years ago.

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Get the PG 800 for the JX and you'll be in moist land.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Quote Zukan:

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Quote pocklefo:

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to add to the JX-8P I bought for £120 a couple of years ago.

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Get the PG 800 for the JX and you'll be in moist land.

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A PG-800 would be great , but they seem to go for £300+. I have always been tempted by a Behringer BCR to to control the JX-8P, but that would probably be trickier to setup and use than the software editor, which graphically looks the same as the PG-800.

It's a shame Roland(or other companies) don't explore the Synth/separate controller idea , it always seemed a good way to keep the original cost of the main unit down.

Just a thought maybe we should come up with a new "code" for describing these desirable bits of kit say instead of saying "warm" we post "expensively unreliable" and reverse all descripives/ superlatives
for example a few simple edits........
The Jupiter 8 was Roland's first truly professional analog synthesizer. The Jupiter 8 features 16 THIN analog oscillators at 2 per voice, eight voice polyphony and RANDOM programming! At eight voices you can get some sounds.Programming via scratchy front panel sliders, wobbly knobs and work half the time buttons for ocassionally productive tweaking. The legacy of the Jupiter synthesizers is due to their unique voice architecture and design, which were discontinued and never to be copied by any other manufactuerer No other synths in the world can create the godawful racket with good reason.

The Jupiter 8 was the biggest and most unreliable of them all (Jupiters and Junos)! It was one of the first synths to allow its keyboard to be mostly non functional - it's eight voices of trance hell!

Link to that instead of VSE and see if they bite.

please no flaming it is a joke (but if it works i`d like a jp6 ta)
Dave

You are almost there lol...You need to add that the JP8 was desirable until the JP8080 came out LOL!!!! And now we have viruses thats the only synth we need...and some lame plug in to really "phaten" things up

You need some 'trousers halfway down your arse' spellings in there...

How about 'LLIN' for 'THIN'?

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Bunfsplop.

Not sure I get you. Do you not like the J8?

Id love one. Wouldn't pay 5 grand mind you but would pay half that willingly.

Has to be my dream synth and I dream a lot haha

Quote:

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And now we have viruses thats the only synth we need

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@ Vinyl Junkie. I know you were only joking but I detested my Virus Ti.

Honestly I felt it was one of the worst synths Id ever owned and as you know i've owned quite a few. It was so bloated with terrible FX, millions of sounds all of which sounded similar and a trillion menus per button.

I know it has many fans but for me Id rate it about 3/10 at best. Id much rather has a pair of Novation Nova's (seriously) for an 8th of the price. Or better still, multitrack a JP8000

Nah I know mate, I don't like Viruse's either but you knew that already lol

One thing I will say is the old original desktop Virus B was a pretty nice sounding unit, to me they got weaker sounding as they evolved.

ps the dude was joking about the JP8

There's an OSCar going for three grand on Ebay at the moment.

ouch.

I'm *SO* glad I only paid £200 for mine.....mind you, that was 20+ years ago...

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Minke - Home Taping album :<a href="" target="_blank">http://minke.bandcamp.com/album/home-taping</a>

Quote kolakube:

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Quote:

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..... one of the few advantages of age is that I now know that there are very few pieces of gear out there that will, actually, help me write better music, and that blowing a bunch of cash on some old thing that I lusted after many, many years ago, will, definitely, be regretted. Better music comes from working harder,

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^^ Very well said. However can I ask how old you are? Im 37 and still salivate over old gear. I know everything you have said is true but like a heroin addict I cant resist for long.

An extreme example, I bow down infront of hardware samplers yet hate using them as there damned right awkward compared to bundled DAW soft samplers. If I do something on my Akai S1000 it takes days, where as to use Abletons Simpler for the same job (insert your DAWs sampler here) takes minutes. I know this for a fact yet still...

To add to this I am very happy with the music I can produce using only VSTs. As much as VSTs don't sound as good as real deal kit musical tastes have now adapted to like the sounds of VSTs.

So why cant I break away from the pull of classic kit?? What age does this happen? Cant wait

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I'm just into cheap car insurance land - ie, a few days over the big Five O. I'd say the gear lust thing started to pall round about 40, so you've not long to go. Along with it will come a total boredom with most electronica, because you'll have heard just about every permutation of every beat, sound, and idiot autotuned vocal and realized that the only people really interested in it are those that make it and those that DJ it. Everybody else doesn't give much of a [ ****** ], really, it's just that stuff they run in clubs for people to dance to and try to pull to. As long as it's got a 4 on the floor they really don't care.

On the other hand, you'll start to appreciate that stuff they call 'music' out there but which so far, maybe, you've completely ignored, you know, stuff played by real people with funny things made of metal and wood. I think they're called musical instruments, and you can't quantize them (or not that easily), and they offer instantaneous and astonishing amounts of control over pitch, harmonics, and timbre, all in real time, that synths just don't. Combine that with timing that isn't derived from a machine and you get all these amazingly subtle gradations of emotion, dynamics, and interplay between these funny people they call musicians.

Quite often you'll also find that 'music' can sometimes be written that doesn't just use one chord, sampled and played up and down a keyboard, producing a boring succession of the same shaped chord. Sometimes it even modulates between keys, or moves from major to minor. Quite astonishing. You may even find that you get more satisfaction just writing this kind of complex music on something like a piano, than you do from endlessly farting about with synths.

It's all a bit odd, initially, but you'll get used to it. Freed from the tyranny of the click and the tediousness of the really not-very-important differences between one synth and another, you'll spend less money on stupid bits of junk, and finally get a handle on what we're supposed to be doing here.

Writing music.

You may also find that you're writing the best music you've ever written in your life, and that other people suddenly pay attention, because you're finally making music that depends for it's 'effect' on the melody, chords, and emotion in the music, and not 'fx' of one form of another. There comes a time when yet another filter sweep is just [ ****** ] boring.

Believe me, it's all good. Leave the navel-gazing oscillator comparing to the youngsters, and grow up, finally.

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Quote tomafd:

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I'm just into cheap car insurance land - ie, a few days over the big Five O. I'd say the gear lust thing started to pall round about 40, so you've not long to go. Along with it will come a total boredom with most electronica, because you'll have heard just about every permutation of every beat, sound, and idiot autotuned vocal and realized that the only people really interested in it are those that make it and those that DJ it. Everybody else doesn't give much of a [ ****** ], really, it's just that stuff they run in clubs for people to dance to and try to pull to. As long as it's got a 4 on the floor they really don't care.

On the other hand, you'll start to appreciate that stuff they call 'music' out there but which so far, maybe, you've completely ignored, you know, stuff played by real people with funny things made of metal and wood. I think they're called musical instruments, and you can't quantize them (or not that easily), and they offer instantaneous and astonishing amounts of control over pitch, harmonics, and timbre, all in real time, that synths just don't. Combine that with timing that isn't derived from a machine and you get all these amazingly subtle gradations of emotion, dynamics, and interplay between these funny people they call musicians.

Quite often you'll also find that 'music' can sometimes be written that doesn't just use one chord, sampled and played up and down a keyboard, producing a boring succession of the same shaped chord. Sometimes it even modulates between keys, or moves from major to minor. Quite astonishing. You may even find that you get more satisfaction just writing this kind of complex music on something like a piano, than you do from endlessly farting about with synths.

It's all a bit odd, initially, but you'll get used to it. Freed from the tyranny of the click and the tediousness of the really not-very-important differences between one synth and another, you'll spend less money on stupid bits of junk, and finally get a handle on what we're supposed to be doing here.

Writing music.

You may also find that you're writing the best music you've ever written in your life, and that other people suddenly pay attention, because you're finally making music that depends for it's 'effect' on the melody, chords, and emotion in the music, and not 'fx' of one form of another. There comes a time when yet another filter sweep is just [ ****** ] boring.

Believe me, it's all good. Leave the navel-gazing oscillator comparing to the youngsters, and grow up, finally.

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Quite narrow minded post.

Disco, whether acoustic or synthesized has some of the most complex chord changes and song structures since classical.

And yes, it is and was made for the clubs but that doens't make it non-music. Although by your definiton, if music can't be played by instruments, it just isn't valid:

Quote:

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Everybody else doesn't give much of a [ ****** ], really, it's just that stuff they run in clubs for people to dance to and try to pull to. As long as it's got a 4 on the floor they really don't care.

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Now your age is showing.

ken

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I'm All Ears.

Easy there, Ken, I'm just having fun ! There are times when the generally po-faced and far-too-serious nature of electronica-making sometimes needs a good poke. I'm not remotely serious ... and here's the smiley I should have added...

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Tomafd,

Disagree mate. Ive liked the sound of synths since I was old enough to understand music.

I love anything with good synth riffs on it. Its the synths I love you see not the genres of music using it.

Hell I like Limp Bizcuit to Trance and back to human league and duran duran.

I think some of the simple but effective dance tunes a work of art. I mea if anyone could just churn them out they would be very rich.

The reason I love gear is because I love synths hence love music.

I doubt thats going to change when I get over 40 in a few years time.

Ill admit as I age the music I like gets less and less hard but thats about it. Mind given the mood I can still listen to gaba and find it interesting.

Fo me a hardware set up is the nearest non sexual thing there is to porn. You can keep your Ferraris and fake as page 3 models. Give me a studio.

Quote tomafd:

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Easy there, Ken, I'm just having fun ! There are times when the generally po-faced and far-too-serious nature of electronica-making sometimes needs a good poke. I'm not remotely serious ... and here's the smiley I should have added...

---

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I'm All Ears.

Quote kolakube:

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Tomafd,




Ill admit as I age the music I like gets less and less hard but thats about it. Mind given the mood I can still listen to gaba and find it interesting.

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As long as certain essential bits of us stay hard, when required, as we get older, it's ok to like music that gets less and less hard ...





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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Why dont VA & softsynth makers put an aging tool on their instruments, like David Stein who used lipton tea on his art forgeries to age them.

One of the charms of analogues of ole is their agein, like a good wine, hence why in ten years prophet 08, andromeda, taurus 3 will prolly sound even more deeply lush.

Quote Minke:

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There's an OSCar going for three grand on Ebay at the moment.

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WHAT?!

I just don't know anymore.....



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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Its actually £1800 (which is expensive enough)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OSCar-OSC-Vintage-Analog-Synth-midi-version-/1404226 05426?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Pro_Audio_Synthesisers_CV&hash=item20 b1d6ea72#ht_500wt_1154

Quote kolakube:

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Its actually £1800 (which is expensive enough)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OSCar-OSC-Vintage-Analog-Synth-midi-version-/1404226 05426?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Pro_Audio_Synthesisers_CV&hash=item20 b1d6ea72#ht_500wt_1154

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Aye but some idiot will buy it though

And here's the (nearly) 3k OSCar :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Oxford-Synthesizer-Company-OSCar-Vintage-Synthesizer -/300436665406?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Keyboards_MIDI&hash=item45f36bb43e

Utter madness !

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Minke - Home Taping album :<a href="" target="_blank">http://minke.bandcamp.com/album/home-taping</a>

Wow - wonder how much my Octave CAT SRM is worth?? Wife wants an extension.......(building that is, before nay Kenneth Williams types chip in..)

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Jonny

Quote fatbenelton:

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Wow - wonder how much my Octave CAT SRM is worth?? Wife wants an extension.......(building that is, before nay Kenneth Williams types chip in..)

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You know you're old when you start selling your analogue synths to pay for home improvements.

Quote Minke:

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And here's the (nearly) 3k OSCar :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Oxford-Synthesizer-Company-OSCar-Vintage-Synthesizer -/300436665406?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Keyboards_MIDI&hash=item45f36bb43e

Utter madness !

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I was talking to one of the guys who made the things, recently. He was somewhat discomfited to find that all these years later the things were going for ludicrous money - "given that we couldn't shift enough of them, and had at least 150 left in the warehouse when the company went bust ..."

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Anyway... time to leave the oscar behind, and get back to mad ebay land, i found this on ebay! i was like WTF is the seller having a laugh or what?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110557096943

ha ha - A cardboard drum machine. For £500 or there abouts. haha.

If this sells I really am going to put some ice on out of my freezer and sell it on Eskimo Ebay for mega bucks.

will have to get my SX 1000 out and sell for that price. Bought mine in 1990 for 25 quid from a 2nd hand shop who couldnt get a note out of it. Nothing wrong with the synth they just didnt understand analogue architecture!

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Sabbs

This chap must be having a laugh; ancient Korg PE-1000 for a starting bid of £600 (or best offer, lol)? Mine was £45 about 8 months ago, so there are bargains still to be had if you look hard enough.

Of course, Jean-Michel Jarre used one 35 years ago though so it must be worth it. Oh wait, that was the PE- 2000...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250660057964

Edited by baward (11/07/10 11:07 AM)

Quote Mixedup:

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Yeah, the Novation, as you can hide it away in a rack and not have to look at it. Whereas the ugly Roland...

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Where the hell could you hide this one...

http://www.aleph.co.jp/~takeda/radio/andrew.html




NCGM

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Footloose and fancy free...gizz a job!