Theres one for sale in the Ad's. Serious offers only, how much do they go for now?

According to one guy in a thread round here, 9 grand.

Personally, I reckon that a mint one is 2-3k, with a tatty one 1.5-2

I don't necessarily think that they are worth that - it's just what people seem prepared to pay.

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

I sold mine for nearly £2K 12 years ago... I wouldn't be surprised if they change hands for close to £10K now. Getting rarer by the day, and still nothing to touch them in terms of playability adn expression. Fantastic synth.

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

(Slightly) off topic,

I've got a mint CS 60 which I've had sitting quietly in the corner since the 80's when I couldn't sell it for the price of a deposit on a DX7! Never been able to bring myself to sell it since - has original stand and pedals and gig bag all in the same condition as when I bought it. I've been tempted to sell recently since - what do you guys thing is a realistic asking price in the UK? It's last service was by Dusty from Yamaha Milton Keynes and it is pristine except for one slightly drifting oscillator which comes into tune after it's been warmed up a while. Any ideas would be appreciated,

Jezz

It's worthwhile contacting James Walker at Synth Repair Services as he does move gear for clients and would have his finger on the 'value' pulse.

RLMusic are another as they recently sold a CS 80.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I sold mine for nearly £2K 12 years ago... I wouldn't be surprised if they change hands for close to £10K now. Getting rarer by the day, and still nothing to touch them in terms of playability adn expression. Fantastic synth.

hugh

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I couldn't agree more! Just wish I could ever see one for real one day lol
The sound and expression on it is amazing when ever you see some one play on it

Edited by Hugh Robjohns (17/01/10 01:01 PM)

Hi Zukan,

I contacted RL a while back (that's how I found out that the only guy I'd ever let touch my CS60 was the same guy as he uses - one of the original Yamaha technicians). He said he would be interested in a mint one, but was not forthcoming with value suggestions! I'll try your other suggestion,

Cheers

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I wouldn't be surprised if they change hands for close to £10K now.

---

...which I hear is about the average annual running cost, as well

I was recently informed of a Korg PS-3100 (the smallest of the 3 Korg Poly brothers) for sale for a rather eye-watering $13,000.

Ben

Quote Dr_Jezz:

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Hi Zukan,

I contacted RL a while back (that's how I found out that the only guy I'd ever let touch my CS60 was the same guy as he uses - one of the original Yamaha technicians). He said he would be interested in a mint one, but was not forthcoming with value suggestions! I'll try your other suggestion,

Cheers

---

I think that is because they might have fancied buying yours to then sell.

James will know as he has serviced a number of my synths and was going to sell me one he had refurbished a few years ago. It was through the then Music Control and was for sale at 2,300 GBP. They are worth more today and I am utterly amazed if they are going for the 9-10K mark. Hell, they are not System 700s or Moog Modulars FFS!

I sold my CS 60 6 years ago for £800. Had I kept it would it be worth 4 gees today?

Ptuk!



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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Assuming anyone here does have a spare £12k to lash out on the old thing... read this first

http://www.synthmuseum.com/yamaha/yamcs8001.html

Looks like road use will put the old dear right out of tune, right away. Though at 220 lbs, road use might be out of the question anyway !

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

One of the reasons I sold my MemoryMoog. Weight and tunning issues.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

Quote Hugh Robjohns:

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I sold mine for nearly £2K 12 years ago... I wouldn't be surprised if they change hands for close to £10K now. Getting rarer by the day, and still nothing to touch them in terms of playability adn expression. Fantastic synth.

hugh

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*Are* they really getting rarer by the day, though?

I know price-hiking dealers like to repeat this phrase, but I somehow am skeptical that not a day goes by when someone trashes a Yamaha CS-80, smashing it with hammers, setting fire to it, throws it out of a hotel window, etc etc....
I imagine those that remain are well looked after.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Thanks for the input Zukan,

As for the weight, the CS60 is just the same and although mine hasn't been out of the building for the last 20 years, I used to take it back and forth between rehearsals and gigs when I first got it - actually tuning wasn't a problem once it had warmed up. Carrying it up spiral stairs was though.....! I'm glad the price is on the up, because I actually paid a lot for it back in the 80's

Quote feline1:

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I somehow am skeptical that not a day goes by when someone trashes a Yamaha CS-80, smashing it with hammers, setting fire to it, throws it out of a hotel window, etc etc....
I imagine those that remain are well looked after.

---

I'm sure they are well looked after and anyone thqat owns one is unlikely to attack it with hammers or test its incendiary or aeronautical properties....

However, accidents do happen -- beer and oither liquids have been known to become spilled and electronic devices don't like that kind of thing.

More importantly, there are a lot of bespoke ICs inside a CS80 that are no longer available and they don't have an infinite life. It is possible to scavenge most from other CS family synths, but that's not an inexhaustible supply either.

hugh

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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

yeah fair point about the deteriorating components...

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Also, these things are so pricey now that they tend to be snapped up by collectors as museum pieces, rather than by musicians to play.

Stuck in a basement under plastic wrap and never used is as good as making them disappear off the market, never to reappear.

I did hear Vangelis owned nine CS80's once, one for use and the rest for spares, i think he still own's his CS80('s) ?

Quote desmond:

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Also, these things are so pricey now that they tend to be snapped up by collectors as museum pieces, rather than by musicians to play.

Stuck in a basement under plastic wrap and never used is as good as making them disappear off the market, never to reappear.

---

Aye you have a point there. The solution is clearly that these "collectors" should be beaten, with hammers.

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~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

I own a few CS80s restored by Kent Spong / RL Music; so here's my advice on how to think about the CS80 these days:

1. If you really and earnestly want one, then stop quibbling with yourself about the money. It will be expensive!

2. This is a long term investment and commitment. Be prepared to plan for the long term in terms of purchase, careful shipping, servicing and shipping for services.

3. The approach to take is:
- buy a restored one for lots of money (perhaps 10K or more) and lots of money for expert shipping.

Or:
- bye a rough and tumble CS80 and then have it serviced / restored by RL Music and Kent Spong. There's no other way in the UK - I believe there are exquisite restorers in France and the US too.

- be prepared to pay anywhere from high hundreds of pounds to thousands of pounds for that work, depending on how much needs to be done. But I'll say this about RL Music and Kent Spong having had one CS80 full service and two CS80s restored, one Prophet T8 restored and a VP330 serviced - they are the best in the business, and as costly as they may seem, they are incredibly efficient, incredibly cost effective and incredibly good value for money, incredibly committed to support for the long term and incredibly passionate about what they do. Let me put it this way - I will never buy a serious vintage synth again without it going through their hands for a service immediately after purchase - it comes out after that as if new (or better). As for the CS80s, a Kent Spong restore makes a CS80 more stable than even the original new one - he painstakingly places decoupling capacitors all over the electronics to remove susceptibility to static electricity, among many other upgrade features, rendering the CS80 more stable than ever before and completely usable in today’s world. So any excellent CS80 (or other vintage instrument) going through their hands is worth every penny asked for it and brings a vintage synth bang up to date and ready for use in the 21st century. They are amazing. I can’t say it any other way.

- When shipping a CS80, you need to be incredibly careful and be prepared to pay a lot. After my first restore, I hired a company who move Art pieces for Sotheby’s and Pianos - and paid a lot - yet they completely wrecked my CS80 on transit and I had to send it back to Kent for a complete new service. In fact, though I live in Dublin, I now drive to London personally with my CS80s for service - there's no other way for me. But once fully up to date, you’ll get three years or more before you even need to think about a retune. My trips to London are just the tail end of a ten +- year project of restoration that is nearing completion so I do not anticipate as many trips required once they are all stable.

- So overall the commitment to a CS80 is a big deal and requires constant attention, a long term view, lots of money(!) and lots of patience. In fact I should correct what I said above – I do not drive to London – my sister drives me as I can’t afford a car (because the money has gone into the CS80’s!).

- I should say that the original price of a CS80 was about £5000 in 1978 - which converts to £16,000 in today’s money. So when you see a pristine condition KSR CS80 for under that amount, it’s worth it IMO (and I'll never sell mine so I'm not saying this to bolster the price). Event he recent one for £9000 was not unreasonable IMO – that’s the price of a top of the range upright piano, and IMO owning a CS80 - a legendary synthesizer and one of perhaps about a 1000 or so still in active use world wide, is a fair price.

I expect them to hit the stratosphere in pricing within 5-10 years, so if you are really committed to ever getting one then you need to be thinking about it now and making serious plans.

I know many do not see it as worth it but it each to their own. I own mine to use - not to keep as collectors items (I have two music rooms with one in each and to date for various updates the third has usually been with Kent Spong, though that third one is 'coming home' this spring / early summer!!

Good luck.

Kevin.

Any one in the South West got a CS80 they would like to show off at a Blade Runner night?

We have an after show do and I have arranged for my friend Raphael Ravenscroft to come play (he is the guy that originally played sax on Love Theme with Vangelis amongst many other things, google him....)

The Love Theme track has been fully recreated in the studio and is getting an airing at the show itself.

Contact details for us are in my web address below....

"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"

Contact Kent Spong or Richard Lawson at www.rlmusic.co.uk. If they can't accomodate you they might be able ot point you in the directioon of someone in that area. You might also want to consider demo'ins the Roland VP330 as well - responsible for all of the strings in the film and the choral 'ahh' sound in the scene where Deckard interviews Rachael.

Cheers,
Kevin.

Ta, though your link isn't working for me...

Curious -

Try :

http://www.rlmusic.co.uk/

(I cut and pasted this from their web site but I can't see a difference). I'll try this once its posted.

Yep - works (and my mistake in the first post was the dot on the "uk."

Kevin.

Edited by Kevin Nolan (26/01/10 01:27 PM)

Quote Stonehousestudio:

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Any one in the South West got a CS80 they would like to show off at a Blade Runner night?

We have an after show do and I have arranged for my friend Raphael Ravenscroft to come play (he is the guy that originally played sax on Love Theme with Vangelis amongst many other things, google him....)

---

I always thought Dick Morrisey played that.

Quote Lento:

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Quote Stonehousestudio:

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Any one in the South West got a CS80 they would like to show off at a Blade Runner night?

We have an after show do and I have arranged for my friend Raphael Ravenscroft to come play (he is the guy that originally played sax on Love Theme with Vangelis amongst many other things, google him....)

---

I always thought Dick Morrisey played that.

---

It was Dick Morrissey that played the haunting sax theme on Love Theme from the soundtrack Bladerunner.

Raphael Ravenscroft played sax for ABBA, Mike Oldfield, Pink Floyd, but no mention of him playing with Vangelis. Stonedheadaudio has got his sax players mixed up and the name wrong tsk tsk.

I bought the Bladerunner album because on that one sax track.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

I'm a synth fan, a sci-fi fan, and a cult film fan.

Which is all the more weird when I say, Bladerunner the film never did much for me, the soundtrack doesn't really move me, and I was never a huge fan of *CS80's (not that I've played one).

I've never been one for all the various Bladerunner hype... It's ok, just didn't do much for me...


* Possibly because a) they look like the Yamaha string machines and organs of the time, and b) my mate back when I was young had a CS20m (I *know* completely different machine) which was just horribly bland and lame sounding... although I did love the little CS01's when I was at school...

Quote desmond:

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I'm a synth fan, a sci-fi fan, and a cult film fan.

Which is all the more weird when I say, Bladerunner the film never did much for me, the soundtrack doesn't really move me, and I was never a huge fan of *CS80's (not that I've played one).

I've never been one for all the various Bladerunner hype... It's ok, just didn't do much for me...


* Possibly because a) they look like the Yamaha string machines and organs of the time, and b) my mate back when I was young had a CS20m (I *know* completely different machine) which was just horribly bland and lame sounding... although I did love the little CS01's when I was at school...

---

In school for the CS01 hey? - I was in late secondary school at that time too but you're clearly a youngin we'll have to educate re. the CS80 and Bladerunner! :-)

Actually, I kind of know where you're coming from re. Bladerunner - while I adore the film, it's more about the atmosphere, which you either buy into or not. The story is quite thin. I was recently describing it to my 10 and 12 year old nephews and realised just how little to the actual story there is. But its definitely among my favourite films. I agree with the widely held view that the marriage of Vangelis's music to Ridley Scott’s vision is an awesome wonder to behold. I personally love 1492 Conquest of Paradise, and although many see that film as too long drawn out, the marriage of Depardieu's portrail of Columbus, Scott’s vision and Vangelis's music is just fabulous.


Another anecdote (!) - I was just then discovering Vangelis but when I heard the end titles Bladerunner Theme on the radio before seeing the film I remember thinking to myself " what simplistic drivel , Vangelis would never write anything like that". Needless to say I ‘ate my thoughts’ when the DJ announced it was by Vangelis, and of course I've revised my appreciation for the piece since!! :-)

While I agree that the CS20M can seem bland, checkout some of the Youtube videos of it - there are a few that reveal just how good it is in the right hands. I ownt he CS40M and it is magnificet - one of the most overlooked synths. It's classic CS sound, wonderful Ring modulator, fabulous left hand modulation controls, memory banks, great stability all make it a worthy musical instrument. the CS01 with breadth controller is also absolutely excellent.


Kevin.

Kevin, I see you're quite a fan of all things Yamaha but no TX816

By the way, your DX1 wouldn't happen to be 1006 perchance ?
We split up a few years ago and I've been trying to track her down ever since.....

Quote Kevin Nolan:

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In school for the CS01 hey? - I was in late secondary school at that time too but you're clearly a youngin we'll have to educate re. the CS80 and Bladerunner! :-)

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Hehe. Yeah. I used to stay after school and play with the CS01's in my first year at secondary school. I was probably the only person that ever played with them.

(I'm sure if I ever got the chance to sit down with a CS80 I'd change my opinion, no doubt!)

Quote Kevin Nolan:

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it's more about the atmosphere, which you either buy into or not.

---

I'm *absolutely* a lover of atmosphere. My love affair with music and atmosphere started with TV at a very early age, and it was probably that that turned me into an audio-type. I used to flip out at age 7 if someone would try to turn off the TV while the credit music was still playing. The MUSIC IS IMPORTANT! Gah!!

I always used to pay amore ttention to the music and sound than the plot...

I don't dislike Bladerunner, and there are some absolutely superb things about it, it just never quite worked for me as a film. Not sure why. I've rewatched it a number of times to see whether I might change my opinion, and I don't. It just doesn't gel with me, never did. A fine piece of work though, no doubt, from all involved.

Quote Kevin Nolan:

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I agree with the widely held view that the marriage of Vangelis's music to Ridley Scott’s vision is an awesome wonder to behold.

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Especially in that opening cityscape shot.

Quote Kevin Nolan:

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While I agree that the CS20M can seem bland, checkout some of the Youtube videos of it - there are a few that reveal just how good it is in the right hands.

---

My hands aren't that bad, either!

I explored it pretty thoroughly. The *only* thing I liked at the time was the sample&hold stuff, 'cos my little Moog Prodigy didn't have it, and the modulation was *really* basic. However, the Prodigy beat it for almost everything else, certainly basses, and leads. Yeah, the CS20m could do some simpler, purer sounds like hollow basses and clarinets and that type of thing, but to someone who's well into synths, those things are not terribly exciting. I found the oscillators bland, the filters weak, the envelopes unexciting.

The CS20m *looked* impressive, was well-made, bl**dy heavy and have some really great features. But it's basic sound quality was just... meh. For me, anyway.

I wonder if I'd think the same if I played it now (it's been a looong time...)

Quote Kevin Nolan:

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I ownt he CS40M and it is magnificet - one of the most overlooked synths. It's classic CS sound, wonderful Ring modulator, fabulous left hand modulation controls, memory banks, great stability all make it a worthy musical instrument.

---

It's supposed to be effectively two CS20m's, but I think in general the CS40 is quite a lot better than the CS20m, from what I understand.

Quote Kevin Nolan:

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the CS01 with breadth controller is also absolutely excellent.

---

Yeah - I just find it annoying that even the prices of these little toys, the CS01, the DX100, the MC202/TB303, plenty of the cheapy stuff back in the day etc - all these are sought after now and are just ridiculously priced. I'd love to pick them up to play for fifty quid, but not at the prices they go for.

There is just something nice about an instrument, that software, however cool, powerful or great sounding, just doesn't have. Hardware seems to have personality, whereas software rarely does, imo...

Quote Kwaidan:

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Quote Lento:

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Quote Stonehousestudio:

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Any one in the South West got a CS80 they would like to show off at a Blade Runner night?

We have an after show do and I have arranged for my friend Raphael Ravenscroft to come play (he is the guy that originally played sax on Love Theme with Vangelis amongst many other things, google him....)

---

I always thought Dick Morrisey played that.

---

It was Dick Morrissey that played the haunting sax theme on Love Theme from the soundtrack Bladerunner.

Raphael Ravenscroft played sax for ABBA, Mike Oldfield, Pink Floyd, but no mention of him playing with Vangelis. Stonedheadaudio has got his sax players mixed up and the name wrong tsk tsk.

---

No I haven't...

Raph played the original piece and the whole film score was rerecorded as Ridley Scott and Vangelis fell out. Vangelis was apparently insulted by Scott and would not give him the originals, made Scott rerecord everything and charged him through the nose to use it.

So Raph was a young tape op at the time of writing working for Vangelis and was asked to play a line when the piece was written and thats what was re recorded by Dick.

But that is partially what this night is about, so thats why we've put it on.


Not that I'm a geeky Bladerunner fan or anything....

Raph is also the guy that played the 'Baker Street' sax line and many other famous sax parts over the years. The life of a session musician and all that.

Quote Stonehousestudio:

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Raph is also the guy that played the 'Baker Street' sax line

---

Noooo, everyone knows that was Bob Holness..!

Quote desmond:

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Quote Stonehousestudio:

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Raph is also the guy that played the 'Baker Street' sax line

---

Noooo, everyone knows that was Bob Holness..!

---

I keep telling Raph that myself...

the £9000 quote is from people who own them.......profit from renovating them or wish to sell them.I boughta cs 6 3 montsh back from the us for £1400 - mint.......i have been offered 2 x cs80's from the us - both mint for £5000 in the last 10 weeks.......£9000 is a uk price for a fully renovated cs80 in mint shape - no import tax - and from rl music and rl music charge about 30% higher prices on everything they sell full stop.I got quite £3500 for a mint 3.3 p5 from them a year back - a week later i bought a mint 3.3 fully serviced on ebay for £1900......serioluslt rl music are not the way to price synths and cs80's are super hyped in the uk , buy from the us.....what bothers me is the greed of it all and there is some greed going down here in the synth world - people will say - no its not greed its supply and demand , why shouldnt i get the 'best price i can ' - yeah well all i can say is we each know when were being greedy and we can all see when some else is or a business is .Greed does exist in the dictionary and is a human quality .....£5000 for a cs80 is a fair price for what it is.£9000 is a ' dealers ' price and a dealer who likes money to much above his heart and soul.....

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'normal' is the new abnormal

Hi Lento -

Not at my DX1 right now but will check the serial number later - but very confident it's not yours as I bought it from Australia!


To Johhny Normal: Re the last post on RL Music charging more - that's not actually the case as you put it. On many occasions RL Music sell on equipment for other clients and the cost is as might be expected.

But where RL Music do charge more it is its for a fully accountable reason which is: an RL Music Mint CS80 is NOT the same as another Mint condition CS80. Rather, they strip them down, rebuild any and all required electronics to the highest conceivable quality; add in Kent Spongs numerous customizations such as myriads of electrostatic discharge safety capacitors, new pots, better temperature controls, key contacts all redone and even the tolex cover re done, among many other upgrades.

So when you get a vintage synth from RL Music it is not the same as other un-upgraded mint condition vintage synths, they are an altogether different beast.

My CS80s and the T8 I've purchased from them are essentially as stable as any modern synth - and that' really saying something. It gives me huge confidence in using these synths in actual production jobs.

Indeed, rather than RL Music being more expensive, the opposite is often the case - if you look at individual services and individual upgrade features, RL Music / KSR seem very reasonable to me at times. I have had smaller services and upgrade done and I’ve been surprised at how reasonable the cost has been when compared to what they actually do and deliver. I’ll never again buy a serious vintage synth without diverting it immediately to them for a going over – I really mean that.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again to be sure the point is clear- I have no vested interest in saying all of this other than to say that I am over the moon with RL Music / KSR vintage synths - they do an excellent job, and rather than greed or profit being the motivator - these guys are dead-on, great to deal with, love music, adore vintage synths and critically have unique world class skills that are being brought to bare for a whole new generation of synthesists to enjoy using these classics. No money is charged arbitrarily, ever, and IMO they are worth every penny and more.

Kevin.

Kent did a nice job on my prophet 5 , not costing the earth, now keyboard plays like new....worth contacting direct, available on the RLMUSIC website

Steve
the fishy one

Can we stop talking about DX1s please. FFS, have a heart.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note