Hello good folks,

Here is the story:

I currently have a Roland XV-5050 with the Ultimate Keys expansion board (SRX07) which I use in my guitar synth setup (2u rack case). Being mostly into moog(ish) sounds for lead and pad parts when using this setup live, I was wondering if you guys could recommend a better sounding 1u rack synth to replace my XV-5050?

The XV-5050 with the expansion board sounds good but when I compare it to a KORG RADIAS or R3 (for example) for the kind of sound I'm after, there is no comparison. The main problem for me is being able to find something that sounds like the current KORG synths in a 1u rack format so I can easily take it around with me.

Any help is much appreciated!

mmmm... I've pondered on this considerably fellow guitar synth user. Being able to operate in mode 4/six part multitimbral is going to limit your choices...

An old Oberheim Matrix 1000 will be suitably analog, but it's a full rack width and you'll need an external effects unit really.

Access have done some Virii in 1u rack format but I just didn't like the sound of the mk 1 rack.

You could use something like a Fantom XR and sample your favourite Moog sounds - there's plenty of capacity for nice long samples so you'll get a real feel for the sound and it has decent filters of its own. You may even find that Roland's vintage board floats your boat on its own - you could give this a whirl in your XV I think...

I'll fess up now - I gave up. My rig is 10u with the midi interface and the mixer it's all the Elf's fault!



Of course, the Supernova can be coaxed into reproducing those classic monosynth sounds

Steve

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arK music

Not that many candidates..Perhaps an EMU Vintage keys or a Proteus 2000 with a vintage keys rom in it? Even the XL1 might do......
Motif rack?
Trinity Rack?
The Fantom XR has already been mentioned - it does take SRX expansions so you should be able to set it up how you want.

A bit more leftfield is something like a FS1R - weird and wacky FM but I do recall it being capable some good meaty analogue type sounds alongside the wonderful ethereal pads it is famous for.

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Jonny

Quote arkieboy:

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it's all the Elf's fault!

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You'll be hearing from Mr Snuffles, my lawyer.



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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

FS1R = 4 part multitimbral only... :-( That would be fine for a midi bass player but for a guitarist, you don't get the ultimate freedom to bend all of the strings independently

However, 16-6+6=4 so if you already have a couple of synths in your guitar synth rig, then a FS1R looks pretty attractive!

Steve

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arK music

Quote The Elf:

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Quote arkieboy:

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it's all the Elf's fault!

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You'll be hearing from Mr Snuffles, my lawyer.

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I already have the warm milk and bread-crust bribe waiting...

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arK music

I would be inclined to get the Korg module that you really want, and then get a new rack case/bag to suit. Either an additional one to take the new synth, or a new one to take the synth and the converter. Either way, you'll end up with empty rack spaces to fill. Either in the old bag, in the new bag, or both if you plan well enough

Empty rack spaces are always a good justification for GAS. And while the significant other might raise objections to spending more money on toys, they can't help succumb to the ruthless logic of '...we need to get something with blue LEDs to fill those ugly gaps, it makes the entire room look a mess.'

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Thanks very much for all the replies, guys.

I should have qualified my post a little more. I am familiar with quite a few of the synths mentioned, having previously owned them (the EMU as well as boards, Trinity rack, etc). I am especially familiar with Roland rack units (being an ex-employee) and the Fantom would not really offer me much more (apart from sampling) than what the XV-5050 currently does so that's not really an option I'd like to pursue.

I do realise that my options are going to be quite limited due to the fact that often, as Steve pointed out, I will want to use 6 MIDI channels with this setup.

I've got a RADIAS at home at the moment and it can do loads of the stuff I want but it's just too big really (I'd need a 6U rack instead!). I'd like to keep my rig down to 2U but it really doesn't look like there is a much better option than the XV-5050 + SRX-07.

Oh well, I'm going to carry on looking and hopefully suggestions will keep on coming! Cheers boys.

Edited by susbemol (29/09/10 10:32 AM)

susbemol

what is that SRX board like?

As it happens, I could do with a really portable rig that I could put in a 1u or 2u rack bag and carry on a plane. Been thinking about a Fantom XR, or possibly an XV5050 if the orchestral and ultimate keys cards are up to snuff. I don't expect it to sound as rich as my current rig but I would like to avoid gigging with a laptop and mainstage if I can. The things that concern me are choirs and trons really.

What sort of music do you play? Do you have anything on youtube I could listen to that uses the 5050? Or where are you gigging next?

Steve

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arK music

Just had a thought - M3 rack with Radias board.......2U I think.....Pricey though.

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Jonny

@Steve: The boards in general (especially the SRX-07) actually add A LOT to all of the units that support them. Without my SRX-07 the XV-5050 would not really cut for me. Even with the SRX-07 I still crave for more analog(ish) types of sounds so ymmv.

Check out "another prayer" and the solo in "celebracao" (around 2:11) at http://www.saulovalerio.co.uk/ for examples. These are my XV-5050 straight into audio interface with no effects added after the fact (apart from compression).

Whether it fits your own needs is a completely different matter, of course. What made me settle for it was the rig portability (basically my Axon AX100 & XV-5050 in 2u rack), as you say.

PS: Here is something you may want to check out - all the SRX boards demos: http://www.rolandus.com/flash/demos/srx/srx_demo.html

Edited by susbemol (06/10/10 02:12 PM)

Yeah, M3 + RADIAS would be a really great rig but apart from cost it is not a 19" box.

Edited by susbemol (06/10/10 02:14 PM)

Steve, the XV is a nicer sounding synth than the standard JV range but still fundamentally the same sound. Actually, I have an original JV880 'spare' than I'm not using if you want to try the basic palette..

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

There is one option nobody's mentioned that offers 4 true analog voices aswell as semi-modular synth possibilities, aswell as an effective computer-based editor to make up for the lack of rack height.


The DSI Poly Evolver Rack?

Dan, like the idea, but as th OP would be using it with a guitar synth as a controller, the 4 voice poly might be an issue.

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

Or the cheaper option Oberheim Matrix 1000

Quote susbemol:

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Without my SRX-07 the XV-5050 would not really cut for me. Even with the SRX-07 I still crave for more analog(ish) types of sounds so ymmv.

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So get the Analogue Essentials board, peanuts on Ebay. The Fantom range is a step above the XV's, even with the SRX cards you're limited to the XV's inferior AD/DA conversion chips, and most of the SRX sounds are designed specifically for the Fantom range.

Hm, interesting. Not sure where you have got that info from but I certainly doubt that is the case. The ARX boards were designed specifically for the Fantom series but it doesn't really matter anyway. I don't think any of the current Roland products are really what I am looking for.

Thanks anyway!

Quote susbemol:

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Hm, interesting. Not sure where you have got that info from but I certainly doubt that is the case. The ARX boards were designed specifically for the Fantom series but it doesn't really matter anyway. I don't think any of the current Roland products are really what I am looking for.

Thanks anyway!

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Off topic but I could use your help with your Roland knowledge!
I want to recreate some of the patches from the Vintage Keys/Keys 60s&70s from the JV series.
I have acquired a Fantom XR and the SRX Ultimate board doesn't have exactly what I want on it - any thoughts?

BTW I have a Novation A-Station which is a 1U analogue synth.
Cheap as chips but has some great sounds - worth a look?
<a href="/sos/dec01/articles/novationastation.asp" target="_blank">http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec01/articles/novationastation.asp< /a>

R
Alan

Edited by Alanjpearson (26/10/10 03:29 PM)

Quote susbemol:

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Hm, interesting. Not sure where you have got that info from but I certainly doubt that is the case.

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Roland. The SRX cards were designed specifically for the Fantom X-series.

Quote susbemol:

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The ARX boards were designed specifically for the Fantom series but it doesn't really matter anyway.

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No they weren't, the ARX boards were designed specifically for the Fantom G-series, not the X/S/FA-series Fantom.

Quote Alanjpearson:

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Off topic but I could use your help with your Roland knowledge!
I want to recreate some of the patches from the Vintage Keys/Keys 60s&70s from the JV series.
I have acquired a Fantom XR and the SRX Ultimate board doesn't have exactly what I want on it - any thoughts?

BTW I have a Novation A-Station which is a 1U analogue synth.
Cheap as chips but has some great sounds - worth a look?
<a href="/sos/dec01/articles/novationastation.asp" target="_blank">http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec01/articles/novationastation.asp< /a>

R
Alan

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Hi Alan,

The original Keys from 60s & 70s patches are available from the CD-ROM that comes with the SRX-07 board. You should be able to load them in using the Fantom editor.

Thanks for the tip about the A-Station. I had never really considered it but may have to do so now since there seem to be not a lot of options available.

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Roland. The SRX cards were designed specifically for the Fantom X-series.

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So is that why they were available before the first Fantom was out, is it? SRX were first designed to be used on the XV series.

Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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No they weren't, the ARX boards were designed specifically for the Fantom G-series, not the X/S/FA-series Fantom.

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As I previously said, Fantom. No problem if we agree to disagree. I can give you a hug as well as it sounds like you need one.

Quote susbemol:

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Quote TheChorltonWheelie:

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Roland. The SRX cards were designed specifically for the Fantom X-series.

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So is that why they were available before the first Fantom was out, is it? SRX were first designed to be used on the XV series.

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The SRX boards were designed on the Fantom sound stage, which was being queued for release after the XV, which is why even the first release SRX boards make reference to the fact that not all samples/rates were available on the XV. The sounds were tweaked to allow them to be played on the XV series, but all of the development was done on the Fantom.

Indeed, the first SRX boards even had the Fantom literature in them.

But don't let the facts prevent a reply.

You can believe in whatever you choose to believe, mate. I have no probs with that.

Good luck and all the best.

Edited by susbemol (29/10/10 09:03 AM)

So, to revive this old thread and bring it back on topic, after some while searching for the unit discussed above, I think I've found it - Waldorf Blofeld.

I've got one and it seems to fit my needs quite nicely for now. Not a 1u unit rack but it fits in a rack tray without any problem. Can't believe I didn't think of it before!

There's a thought!

How much room does it take in the rack once mounted on a tray? And any photos of the installation?!

Steve

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arK music

I'll have your SRX board if you do decide to sell up.

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And Bagpuss, once he was asleep, was just a saggy old cloth cat.

Hey Steve, no pics yet. I've left it on my studio desk for now since I've only just started experimenting with it and programming my stuff.

It's listed on reader's ads!

Steve - I'd definitely recommend having a tryout before going any further with the Waldorf. I had high hopes, but it just didn't light my fire for some reason. On paper, I should have needed a spare pair of pants, but nothing happened. I know that PMT used to have it in stock (that's where I tried one out - lol), so check it out first....

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

Quote Dave B:

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Steve - I'd definitely recommend having a tryout before going any further with the Waldorf. I had high hopes, but it just didn't light my fire for some reason. On paper, I should have needed a spare pair of pants, but nothing happened. I know that PMT used to have it in stock (that's where I tried one out - lol), so check it out first....

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Ah, well that explains it Dave - PMT can really affect your mood. Perhaps you would have required spare pants if you'd auditioned the Waldorf on a different day?


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Or actually spent sometime with it at home? This thing is flipping brilliant for what I want (I am comparing its sound to great synths that cost A LOT more than the Blofeld).

Sub, I'm not denegrating the Blofeld at all, but simply saying that it didn't do anything for me. Whilst most synths do sound a lot better when re-programmed, I've owned and played enough kit over the years to get a feel for the sound of the unit relatively quickly. And with the Blofeld, there was a sound that was clean, clear and quite interesting, but ultimately was not one that I found appealing. Sadly. (And I do mean sadly - I was desperately wanting to buy a new toy that day)

It's a taste thing - I probably have a goodly lack of it from your point of view!

Knowing Steve's previous synths, I just threw a quick recommendation to try it first. For all I know, he'll flip over it and it will be just what he wants. As it was just local to him though, and given my (entirely personal, totally subjective and probably inaccurate) thoughts on what he may or may not like, it seems a good idea.

Synths eh ..? Love em, hate em, you can't live with em and you can't do with em!

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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

Martin .... you are a sick sick man ......

.... which is ok ....



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Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

Fair enough, as you say "beauty is in the ear of the beholder". Oh wait!?

Dave, Sub

I do fancy something Waldorf, as it happens, but I've been looking at the MicroQ because it's rack-mountable. I did consider racking a Blofeld on a tray too some time ago, but I got a Wavestation SR instead.

As it happens I'm slightly underwhelmed with the WS - sounds great but a pig to program. It's become a bit of a preset box in my rig and while I'm unlikely to sell it, I would like something that I can tweak in a rehearsal room. Both the uQ and the Blofeld have nice grab-able knobs..

I haven't bought either yet because: I'm somewhat discouraged by reports of instability of the firmware in both; I've discovered the FM in my Supernova ; and I'm playing guitar with Paul Menel (ex iQ) at the moment which makes replacing my 3u Marshall 9100 dual mono block back breaker power amp with a 1u EL84 somewhat more urgent!

Still I also have Mikey back as my guitar tech again so at least I get some help carrying the monster!

Steve

(would I get banned from the forum if I mentioned that we're at the Peel this Saturday..)

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arK music

Quote arkieboy:

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As it happens I'm slightly underwhelmed with the WS - sounds great but a pig to program. It's become a bit of a preset box in my rig

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To be fair I suspect that was pretty much Korg's intention. I sold my previous Wavestations and replaced them with an SR, since I spent very little time programming it and more dialling up a few presets. to that end it's a lot of WS power in 1U!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Indeed it is, especially since you can find a host of Wavestation banks in sysex format around the net, including classics like the two Dreamwaves banks from Paul Osborn

Stick to presets on the SR, since that's what it excels at!


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

I loved the SR. More banks than the standard WS but everyone wanted an EX in those days. I had all of them at one point or another but the SR was an instant dialup and use synth. I'd probably get another one today but the Legacy is a touch nice TBH.

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Samplecraze
Stretch That Note

(slight qualification)

Quote arkieboy:

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I'm slightly underwhelmed with the WS

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Compared with my very high expectations! And

Quote arkieboy:

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I'm unlikely to sell it

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that's 'unlikely' as it would be used by a scientist or statistician, not 'unlikely' as it would be when used by a politician... and even if I did it would fund the immediate purchase of the plugin version!

There!!! Hope that's clear.

:^)

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arK music