Quote bugiolacchi:

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The saddest truth is that many people on these kind of blogs are mere 'art collectors' and nostalgics firmly routed to their past (youth). Do you really, really think that the world needs another 'true' analogue synth to make 'real' electronic music? What would you expect it to do produce: fatter pads? More souring lead lines? Deeper booming 808 BDs? Crucially, why? To re-record 'The final countdown' or 'Jump' more faithfully? Keith Emersons' Mimimoog virtuoso meanderings?

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It's a good point, but it's not why I find this disappointing. No, I don't want, or expect, Roland to make another Jupiter8, and a metal analog synth with knobs on - those days are gone.

But it would be nice to get something *exciting* and sexy, like stuff used to be for me in the past. Maybe everything's been done, maybe I'm just not excitable any more - but I also can't see 16 year old kinds finding this stuff inspirational either.

I guess the bigger question is, leaving aside personal nostalgia and fantasy - is it possible to make asomething *new* and different and awesome as a keyboard instrument - or from now on is it forever destined to be various flavours of rompler, the occasional VA, and hammond and rhodes emulation instruments and pianos for those people playing out in bands?

The vast majority of keyboards these days are so bland looking, even if they sound great.

Are the exciting days over?

If Roland have come up with something that delivers new levels of realism and interaction and all the stuff that appears to be claimed, good for them but releasing it under the 'Jupiter' monicker is (IMO) a mistake because that name, that 'brand', that whiff of nostalgia is so closely associated very heavily with pure analogue goodness.

A modern, superb sounding VA, modeled on the Jupe's original circuits and laid out and styled like the original Jupiter 8 but with oodles of polyphony, multi-timbral, multi-effects, etc., which can sound exactly like an original Jupe (and an MKS80 and Jupiter 6 and JX3/8/10) but with new possibilities as well would have been a more appropriate move for the hard core, dewy eyed nostalgics ...

Much like Fairlight have done with their 30A - looks and works pretty much exactly like the original Fairlight, can sound exactly like it but offers a lot more besides. But, like the Fairlight 30A, it would (probably) have limited appeal and maybe, like the 30A, Roland could/should do a limited run, maybe making 10 a month for a year with the thing carrying a premium price. Dunno. But to use the 'Jupiter' heritage for what appears to be something of an 'intelligent' ROMpler doesn't feel right to me.... like Moog bringing out a ROMpler and calling it 'PolyMoog II' or somesuch.

This is quite possibly/probably a good/great new product with a lot of innovative technology inside and will probably sound superb but it's not, perhaps, what people expect of a synth bearing the name 'Roland Jupiter'.

Perhaps if Roland had released it with a different name, distancing the thing from the distinctly analogue Jupiter 8 heritage, people might be foaming over it. As it is, however good it is, I fear a lot of people (including those who have never played or even seen an original Jupiter 8) will be saying "Meh - it's not a Jupiter 8" and I am suspecting it's more of a branding and marketing problem than a lack of technological innovation.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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v.good

i like that you can play angry birds on it

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

As brilliant as your design is - Roland seems to have beaten you to it!
I assume that is real analogue gaffa tape -

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.. is this thing on?

ooohh!! humour can be so cruel when true!

does it have all the 3* walkthroughs built in?

(goes back to iPhone amid squawking and chuckling...)

steve

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arK music

Quote arkieboy:

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ooohh!! humour can be so cruel when true!

does it have all the 3* walkthroughs built in?

(goes back to iPhone amid squawking and chuckling...)

steve

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have you played "little wings"? bit like being trapped in a mid 70s czechoslovakian state funded animation with only Royksopp for company - but kind of fun

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote hollowsun:

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If Roland have come up with something that delivers new levels of realism and interaction and all the stuff that appears to be claimed, good for them but releasing it under the 'Jupiter' monicker is (IMO) a mistake because that name, that 'brand', that whiff of nostalgia is so closely associated very heavily with pure analogue goodness.

A modern, superb sounding VA, modeled on the Jupe's original circuits and laid out and styled like the original Jupiter 8 but with oodles of polyphony, multi-timbral, multi-effects, etc., which can sound exactly like an original Jupe (and an MKS80 and Jupiter 6 and JX3/8/10) but with new possibilities as well would have been a more appropriate move for the hard core, dewy eyed nostalgics ...

Much like Fairlight have done with their 30A - looks and works pretty much exactly like the original Fairlight, can sound exactly like it but offers a lot more besides. But, like the Fairlight 30A, it would (probably) have limited appeal and maybe, like the 30A, Roland could/should do a limited run, maybe making 10 a month for a year with the thing carrying a premium price. Dunno. But to use the 'Jupiter' heritage for what appears to be something of an 'intelligent' ROMpler doesn't feel right to me.... like Moog bringing out a ROMpler and calling it 'PolyMoog II' or somesuch.

This is quite possibly/probably a good/great new product with a lot of innovative technology inside and will probably sound superb but it's not, perhaps, what people expect of a synth bearing the name 'Roland Jupiter'.

Perhaps if Roland had released it with a different name, distancing the thing from the distinctly analogue Jupiter 8 heritage, people might be foaming over it. As it is, however good it is, I fear a lot of people (including those who have never played or even seen an original Jupiter 8) will be saying "Meh - it's not a Jupiter 8" and I am suspecting it's more of a branding and marketing problem than a lack of technological innovation.

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Steve nails it.

I'd like to try one out to be fair.

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I'm All Ears.

Only prob with this Jupiter-80 is, that it contains the sound engine from the SH-01 Gaia. And has less LFO waveforms. And the JP-80 is less powerful than the Fantom X or G. Plus it's more focused on Roland's SUPERnatural sounds than anything else.

And still comes with a hefty price tag.

I have a smattering of vintage gear, but a tour is looming and so I've just got a V-Synth for reliable sampling/analog emulation. I have to say it's brilliant. It's not a Jupiter; but it is a high quality sound engine, Variphrase is an innovative (and useful) technique and it's bristling with performance controls. It's also built like a tank and a joy to play.

It's a V2 so almost vintage.

Roland can do it - it's just not 1980 anymore.

Regards

Stephen

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New Henry Fool album (Featuring Phil Manzenera and Jarrod Gosling) out now. https://www.burningshed.com/store/henryfool/

If Roland are going to drum up interest by encouraging comparisons with past glories then they need to be prepared to stand or fall by that decision.

Of course we all wanted a fully analogue 'Jupiter 8 for now'. If Roland have any sense they MUST know that and must also know that it will only take a few disappointed obesessives on forums like this to see their new flagship holed below the waterline. If that happens to something bearing the Jupiter moniker then they are unlikely to get a second chance. Let's hope they've chosen wisely.

Whether they like it or not, by invoking the Jupiter name they are putting themselves up to be shot down. Sure, the number of us obsessed with the details of this kind of machinery is small, but dirt sticks and we are likely the very people Roland need to convince very early on if this new device is going to carry the Jupiter name's Midas touch.

I'll wait until I can spend some time with one of these before I decide what I think of it.

My first impressions don't have me beating at the shop door with money in my fist...

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I just hope that the pictures going around are not the real deal. Looks cheap and empty to me:(
I don't expect anything good from Roland these days so maybe I will be pleasantly suprised LOL.

Quote jellyjim:

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have you played "little wings"? bit like being trapped in a mid 70s czechoslovakian state funded animation with only Royksopp for company - but kind of fun

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dip-a-dip yahooo!!! zzzzzzz

I'll get to island 5 soon...

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arK music

Now Official

Howard Jones video is telling.

I must say, I'd like to try one out.

Have we got a RRP yet?

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I'm All Ears.

Semi-weighted keys. Noooooo! Rats, rats, rats!!!!

I now hope I *don't* like this thing, or I'm then waiting for the non-weighted 5-octave version!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote ken long:

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Howard Jones video is telling.

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It's Roland going "Oh, a HoJo endorsement would add some credibility to the Jupiter name" and it seemed he had to work a bit to come up with something nice to say about the new keyboard, without lamenting the awesomeness of the old JP8 too hard.

He wasn't exactly gushing about the '80 - and that was presumably the best clip Roland could use...

Plus (as a massive HoJo fan of the past) his older stuff to me sounds way better than his more softsynthy/romplerey recent stuff.

So yes, it's "telling" that Roland UK marketing wanted him on board, and it's telling that it's not exactly gonna be a JP8 replacement for him, so...

Note: I tried to watch the other video, but they lost me as soon as they mentioned "Dedicated buttons for piano, brass, strings sounds..." etc. What is this - a Jupiter for the modern Vicar? Bah...

Quote desmond:

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Note: I tried to watch the other video, but they lost me as soon as they mentioned "Dedicated buttons for piano, brass, strings sounds..." etc. What is this - a Jupiter for the modern Vicar? Bah...

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...and it's only one step from there to presets called 'Cosmic Wow' and 'Funny Cat', at which point the company directors can be arrested under the 'Home Organ and Lounge Music Act 1976'.

A Jupiter with preset names. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Wow this thing sounds terrible in those demos, those flutes, pianos and pads sound gash..they sound so errm 90's work station hahah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOdk44YmFJQ&feature=player_embedded

I think the V-Synth was/is a great synth and probs the only good think Roland still make but this thing...other than using the JP name to trick some people into buying one before playing it sounds no different to me than a Triton or what ever else...actually the Tritity is still a good board and fitted with the Moss expansion board is pretty damn good value for money...but then it's not a Jupiter ;-)

Those pesky dedicated preset buttons made an appearance before on the lovely Juno D and RS9..but damn they weren't funky colours and on a Jupiter lol



The Juno D is totally fresh and nothing to do with that RS9, it's much more phat and OG than my 106


Edited by vinyl_junkie (06/04/11 12:27 PM)

Yeah major shot in the foot here Roland surely?! It might well be a great keyboard but to stick the Jupiter badge on it for the sake of it is just lamer than lamer.

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Hmmm... as a comment on VJ's Youtube vid said:

Its Euro 3000. Get a real Jup 8 for that kind of money.

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I'm All Ears.

anyway, on a brighter note...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blrwSvtu8pg

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Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!

Disappointed. Looks like an evolved V-Synth wearing period costume for the wrong gender.

The article referenced by Kwaidan states that Roland founder Mr Kakehashi said “It wasn’t until now that he felt ready to put this name on an instrument again”. I was always under the impression, as others have suggested, that Roland no longer had the rights to the ‘Jupiter’ name or it would have been on the JP-8000. Indeed, the JP-8000 would have been a more credible bearer of the ‘Jupiter’ name.

I’ve no doubt that the Jupiter-80 will do what it does brilliantly, but what it does, does not identify it as a ‘Jupiter’. To my mind it’s another ‘jack-of-all-trades’ workstation (less sequencer), not a master of pure synthesis like the Jupiter 8 was. The name ‘Jupiter-80’, for me, conjures up images of a pure synth for the 21st century which combines analogue oscillators with modern technology for the purest sound combined with the greatest flexibility and stability. What we actually have is another generic pub-singer’s backing keyboard, albeit a very good one.

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www.mitchthompson.co.uk

I think its fair to say from the totally pants modern day 'Junos" and 'SHs" that any modern day "jupiter" will be utter toss

LOL from the few videos I have seen this is another utter shite board..Ah well, at least I won't make the mistake again to get excited when Roland announces a new synth. Guess they made enough oldies to keep me happy with anyways ha ha

I always think it amazing how a once world leader and creator of so many genres of dance music are reduced to this.

I really don't mind them making modern day synths that are not analogue.
But what I really object to is tarnishing the name of classics such as a Juno/Jupiter/SH.


Roland have constantly been out of touch with the market since the boom of electronic dance music.

To be fair the 808/909/303 were all just accidents. The 808 and 909 were designed to sound like real drums and failed miserably. The 303 a bass guitar synth!

I remember Roland commenting on the popularity of the 303 in around 93 in a music mag. Think it was FM. FM asked them would they make any more due to the renewed interest. "No" was the answer as they didn't believe there was a demand and also the JD800 could sound like a 303 - Yeah right!! Talk about out of touch!!!

Being so out of touch with the market back then allowed Novation to release the Bass Station and get a footing that still sees them in business today.

I remember a Deep Bass Nine 303 clone too and was it a freebass 303 or something, both of which were a success. This continues today with the likes of the Acidlabs and the Xox box. So a load of money still exchanging hands thanks to Roland's lack of grip on reality. How I wish the taxman was so easy to ignore such easy earnings.

All of these companies made a profit out of Roland's lack of being it touch with the demands of the consumer and this was as far back as '93!

So, due to the above and the happy accident 808/909/303 is it not fair to say Roland have not really made a decent synth on purpose since the early 80s a la Juno, JX's and Jupiter's and SH's.

I did like the JP8000 mind and know the V Synth gets a good thumbs up too. But two synths since 85 is not really cutting the mustard.

As for the Jupiter 80 at £2500. Id much rather have 6 x Juno 106's at £400 each!!

Have to agree with you there. The JD-800 served me well for a long time:) But I never managed to get it sound anywhere close to the 303 LOL
Love the jokes they come up with there at Roland!
Never understood how they failed to read the market, even today so many people still buy gear that claims to sound like the 909/808/303. How on earth can you ignore that and as a company let others take the money? They could easily reproduce the originals for a decent price and ship tons as most people would still rather have an original over a clone.
Think I will never get the Roland way of thinking LOL

I really like the V-Synth, if I win the lottery I'm sure one will find it's way into my studio.

Quote Steve Morley:

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Have to agree with you there. The JD-800 served me well for a long time:) But I never managed to get it sound anywhere close to the 303 LOL
Love the jokes they come up with there at Roland!
Never understood how they failed to read the market, even today so many people still buy gear that claims to sound like the 909/808/303. How on earth can you ignore that and as a company let others take the money? They could easily reproduce the originals for a decent price and ship tons as most people would still rather have an original over a clone.
Think I will never get the Roland way of thinking LOL

I really like the V-Synth, if I win the lottery I'm sure one will find it's way into my studio.

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Well they did respond to the market by pretty much inventing the "groove box" format with the MC and to some extent the SP series. The MC303 featured 808, 909, 303 and Juno sounds. They also took on the Akai MPC with the MV8000 and with considerable success to boot.

They've never been ignorant of their heritage they just chose not to respond to it in any way other than ROMplers or VAs.

And what you see coming from Roland now is tailored to some extent the market as a whole but also to their direction within it. It's hard to compete with software synths in the studio so Roland chose to target the market for live instruments, hence these massive ROMplers. Roland sell bucket loads of this stuff to markets that we relatively Godless Europeans don't think about much such as "Places of Worship" and schools that are actually properly equipped.

I am surprised they haven't responded to the Monotron though. But perhaps Korg know something we don't. Maybe it's a loss leader? Maybe Korg haven't made significant money on the Monotron. It's an exercise in brand strengthening and a "gateway product" to other more profitable Korg gear.

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Edited by jellyjim (27/04/11 11:53 AM)

Yeah but Jim I honestly think the MC303 was just another Jupiter 80.

Sure it was great in its own right but a 303 it wasn't. Much like the Jupiter 80 will be no 4, 6 or 8.

Honestly, if ROland were to start remanufacturing the TB303 again exactly how it was they would be able to charge £1000 - £1500 and no doubt but the far cheaper (just as good clones) XoX out of business.

Their marketing strategists do not seem to understand how sought after the Roland classics really are still to this day.

Quote kolakube:

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Their marketing strategists do not seem to understand how sought after the Roland classics really are still to this day.

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Of course they do. They see global sales returns of not just their products but the industry's. Analogue synths are minority and niche. They're even minority in a minority sector and Roland know where their market is ... it's not making expensive analogue synths for a tiny market but making stuff that sells in quantity to big markets like church and cover bands and C&W bands, etc., people who WILL buy hardware, who possibly don't use software (and would never dream of doing so live), people who just want good piano, Rhodes, organs, clavs, strings, brass, maybe bass and guitar and a few lead line sounds. Those people are quite likely foaming over the new Jupiter 80 (although the new Korg Kronos possibly offers more for them). The small minority of people who really want and will pay for proper analogue have no end of choice and as long as people like Dave Smith and Moog and synthesisers.com and Doepfer, etc., are satisfying the 'boutique' market, there's no need for the big manufacturers to bother - they can focus on their core, larger mainstream market which is very different to the market that was there when Roland were making their 'classics'. There's FAR more to this business than beatz orientated dance music which is comparatively small in the overall scheme of things!

Roland's only 'mistake' (IMO) is using the 'Jupiter' name for it in the same way as if Moog released a ROMpler and called it 'PolyMoog II'!

But on the other hand, threads discussing this are all over the forums so they're getting a fair bit of free publicity out of it! That said, it's the same half dozen regulars on each forum talking about it and whilst it generates pages and pages of wibble, it probably only amounts to a few hundred actual people.

Besides, if Roland DID release an all analogue poly and called it 'Jupiter XX', the forums would no doubt be full of threads about how it doesn't sound as good as the original (and likely mostly from people who've never played an original!). Roland are on a hiding to nothing whatever they do.

So the Jupiter 80's not analogue. So what? If you want a modern, true analogue poly, buy a Prophet 08. Save yourself a £grand as well!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Everything you say is correct Hollowsun - a proper appraisal of the market.
The current obsession with 'fat analogue' is more than catered for by other companies - although there is perhaps a gap in the market for a less expensive poly, along the lines of a 106 / polysix maybe.

The funny thing is if you check youtube videos of people testing all this fabulous boutique gear, you get nothing but bad Chris Franke impressions, or acid loops. I cant find a good demo of the new SEM anywere - i.e someone actually playing it.

It fun to laugh at these 'others', the cruise ship musicians that apparently these new keyboards or aimed at, but what can be done with 'realistic' sounds can be just as entertaining as noodling with step sequencers....!!!!


O.T.T 'workstation' workout!!!

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Hollow Sun

I cant understand why if a company knows a profit is to be made would not take advantage of that.

Surely if they released a replica TB303 with MIDI even on a limited run (Much like Akai did with the Ltd edition of the MPC3000) it would literally fly out of the door?

Why would a company ignore this? Why not set up another small company much like Boss and cater for this separately?

Quote kolakube:

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Hollow Sun

I cant understand why if a company knows a profit is to be made would not take advantage of that.

Surely if they released a replica TB303 with MIDI even on a limited run (Much like Akai did with the Ltd edition of the MPC3000) it would literally fly out of the door?

Why would a company ignore this? Why not set up another small company much like Boss and cater for this separately?

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Something to bear in mind when understanding Roland's reluctance to rebuild the 303 is that they have rebuilt factories and optimised them for very different manufacturing processes than the methods used for assembling units like the 303.
To re-tool and be able to build something that "primitive" again would be very expensive for Roland to do and the business model/cost benefit for a large company just doesn't add up.
Small companies can move swiftly and produce small numbers for market demand, but there would need to be a sustainable and significant market to justify a large company to change tack in such a way.. Korg have clearly managed to do something (with the monotron) but the costs to a large company must have been significant and it will be worth watching to see if Korg win or lose with this brave strategy



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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

SO what we all are saying is...

"Jupiter8's are awesome."

Well... duh...

(Having a minor JP8 obsession currently.)

Quote desmond:

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SO what we all are saying is...

"Jupiter8's are awesome."

Well... duh...

(Having a minor JP8 obsession currently.)

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Did you see my Jupiter 6 post? allow me to summarise In bullet points ...

• I heard one
• It sounded amazing

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

A lot of the cost in manufacturing is to do with setting up Procurement, Quality ,invetory management (SAP etc) Test Engineering , packing etc , which Roland would have in place.
The through hole components on the original 303 would be replaced by surface mount , which roland produce in their 1000's - a Fantom or V-synth still have many discrete components.

I imagine the major cost would be in the amount of RnD needed to create custom ASICs for the Oscillator and filter , but i'm sure this would be offset by the positive publicity a remake of the 303 would bring.

I don't think the Monotron and Montribe have done Korg any harm ...........even if they make a small loss.

Quote pocklefo:

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I don't think the Monotron and Montribe have done Korg any harm ...........even if they make a small loss.

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Why do you think they are making a small loss? They are selling by the bucketload, at least the monotron has been, and they look dirt cheap to manufacture...

You are probably correct as I think the Montron has sold well enough for Korg to expand it into the Monotribe, but these are relatively small single oscillator projects, with a low(ish) purchase price.

I'm not sure Korg would make a new Polysix or even a MS-20, for the same reason Roland would never risk a new JP8 or even Juno 6, but I could see a simple instrument like a 303 as possible - simple osc , no modulation, simple envelope etc

Quote Chevytraveller:

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Something to bear in mind when understanding Roland's reluctance to rebuild the 303 is that they have rebuilt factories and optimised them for very different manufacturing processes than the methods used for assembling units like the 303.
To re-tool and be able to build something that "primitive" again would be very expensive for Roland to do and the business model/cost benefit for a large company just doesn't add up.

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Actually your just talking a load of crap. Roland did make a new prototype 303 during the JP-80's original development. It was a prototype along with two other prototype units. Unfortunately i was told that these 3 units including the 303 will never see the light of day.