Quote kolakube:

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I am a loony!! I would pay £1300 for a ROLAND 303.

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Go on then.

Paul

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Paul

Were talking brand new from a factory with a warrenty.

SHow me where and I will

Also Holow Sun

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The reason the 303 fetched those prices in their ravey heyday was because they were rare and fashionable and people were stupid enough to pay that kind of dosh for 'that sound'.

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Your talking like this is a past thing. They routinely change hands for this sort of cash on Ebay and more depending on condition.

Ravey hayday? The market has been this way since the late 90s. It doesn't show any signs of slowing down either some 20 years later. How much more time does Roland need?

People ARE paying these prices and always have.

Quote Steve Morley:

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People want a TB-303 for that specific sound

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Yes. A small number of people. Or rather, maybe a lot of people want it but only a small number will (or can) actually buy it.

Quote Steve Morley:

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That is the real reason why they are still selling for massive amounts

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No - that's supply and demand. There's not many of them around so people can charge silly prices and some will pay silly prices. Still miniscule numbers in the overall scheme of things.

If Roland flooded the market with crates of new ones available for easy, ready purchase at any music shop or internet store, the value would drop like a stone.

Quote Steve Morley:

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I find it actually rather insulting that you call people 'loonies' and 'stupid' for paying a certain amount of money for something they rate.

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That's just my opinion...

In much the same way that I think people who spend £20,000 on some particular vintage of Les Paul ... or wine or car or furniture, whatever, are loonies and are stupid to pay those prices.

And my opinion is somewhat clouded by the fact that I bought a 303 when it was first released for £129 and thought it had a loathsome and annoying sound. I modified it and put CV and gate outputs on it and used it as a sequencer to control my ARP2600 and other modulars because as a pattern based sequencer, it was without equal at the time. But the sound?!

The thing bombed. It was originally intended as a bass accompaniment for guitarists but the sequencer was so complicated for them and the sound so thin and weak that they ended up in junk shops (or were consigned to the attic).

The only reason it became popular was because someone picked one up for $5 in some Detroit junk shop and got lucky when his record that (ab)used one was a massive success and then everyone had to have one. Same for the 808 and 909 - Roland couldn't give those away at one point but when they became junk, were picked up for peanuts and (ab)used in successful records, they became the de riguer must-have and people were prepared to pay silly prices. Some lucky individuals got lucky too and dug their long abandoned 303, etc., out of the attic and made a killing.

No such joy for me - I threw my 303 in the bin when I bought a Roland MC4 MicroComposer ... I couldn't give the 303 away.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote kolakube:

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So have them made under licence to an exact Roland specification.

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Yep. And wait for the queues to form with their brickbats to claim that the re-release doesn't sound exactly like the original.

And that's quite likely - I doubt very much that they could source the exact same analogue components or a little processor to deal with the sequencing, etc., so people would be complaining that it doesn't sound the same and the sequencing doesn't 'feel' the same.

And maybe those three prototypes were built and maybe the decision not to proceed was because they couldn't make it sound or feel the same as the original.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote kolakube:

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Disagree - All VSTs are ran on the exact same PC hardware.

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And the audio interface is the single biggest or only thing responsible for how a sound or instrument sounds the way it does?

Quote kolakube:

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So if you got a Mini moog or a piano and sampled it on a yamaha sampler they would all have a similar colour to the sample. A VST is much like this. IE everything comes from one convertor etc.

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When it comes to the mix, the convertor is completely irrelevant, because most people are generating the sound and bouncing inside the box, therefore the convertors, which you feel is so important to the sound colour *aren't even printed into the mix*. It has *no* affect on the sound in your mix at all - it *only* has an affect on what *you* hear while composing/mixing.

So yes, you miss some of that extra colour, but you can always put that in (and in a more flexible way) with other tools as well.

Quote kolakube:

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You dont get this with separate pieces of kit, they all have there own charicter. As such all VSTs have the same colour. To me anyhow.

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With separate pieces of kit, they all have their own character (as different instruments do), and *one* part of that character is the convertors. And yes, that part of the character in general is missing from VSTs when emulating digital instruments (analog instruments don't have convertors and so haven't got this magical convertor colour anyway).

For instance, my (hardware) Wavestation has a crap D/A output stage - this makes it fuzzy, defocused, missing in high end and generally "worse" sounding that the VST equivalent, which has all the high end, detail and focus missing from the hardware. So the VST sounds "better" in hifi terms - and yet, the "worse" character I'm very used to (having had a hardware one for so long) and I actually quite like it.

But if I want to make the VST sound worse, more like the hardware, there are plenty of ways to do that.

So while yes, convertor character does have a part in the sound in terms of hardware, I don't think it's as major as you describe - and different convertors aren't going to turn a JP8V into Minimonster any more than they would turn a real JP8 into a Minimoog.

Quote kolakube:

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If you and Elf love VSTs Desmond, than good on ya. There all tools at the end of the day as I keep saying time and time again. But to me, VSTs are horrible uninspirational and dull as dish water.

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I can make sounds that inspire me on most tools, to be honest. I take your point, and in some ways I don't disagree (working with VST instruments through a mouse, or generic control surface, is a *way* inferior experience to working with proper hardware, especially a purpose-designed synth front panel in many ways.)

Not being a fan of Arturia in general (I find their stuff sounds more bland to me than other instruments) but I've been playing with the JP8V and I've found I like it a lot (partly because of my JP8 love I guess) and I also re-read Gordon Reid's review of the JP8V and that guy's opinion I trust a lot - when he says various things are very close to the real thing, I take that opinion seriously.

And guess what - I got some damn awesome and inspirational sounds out of the plugin. Just like I do with the excellent MInimonster. Are they the same as the hardware? - no. They also are better than the real thing in other ways. I use tools for their strengths, not complain about their weaknesses, in general.

If you don't like working with a certain bunch of tools for whatever reasons, that's perfectly fine too. :shrugs:

Quote kolakube:

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In another thread or maybe even this one you stated you have a lust for a Jupiter 8.

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Damn right! :sexy:

Quote kolakube:

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Why not just buy the VST then for a hundred quid then?

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Actually, that's why I've been playing with the demo, and I'm really liking it, apart from the fiddly interface. It has some issues (like most Arturia stuff I've tried) and the gui is fiddly and too small, but overall I really like it. I didn't buy it in the past because it was dongled only, and I'm trying to remove all reliance on dongles bit by bit, but I think the new version can also work with a hard drive authorisation so I'll probably pick it up.

Also - the JP8 soundsources in Omnisphere sound fantastic too... and that can go way beyond the JP8V too.

But I really love the JP8 sound character - probably comes for my formative days when I became a HoJo fan. It's a sound character I'm very attracted too and appears to be fairly unique in synth land - and the plugin *does* pull on those heart strings. But of course not in the same way having a real one sitting next to me would... Of all the wonderful instruments over the years, and many years of being a synth geek, I think a JP8 is probably my all-time fave synth, even over things like Matrix12's, PPG2.3, DX1 (hey Z!), Fairlights, Prophet 5/8's etc etc...

Hollow Sun

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The only reason it became popular was because someone picked one up for $5 in some Detroit junk shop and got lucky when his record that (ab)used one was a massive success and then everyone had to have one. Same for the 808 and 909 - Roland couldn't give those away at one point but when they became junk, were picked up for peanuts and (ab)used in successful records, they became the de riguer must-have and people were prepared to pay silly prices. Some lucky individuals got lucky too and dug their long abandoned 303, etc., out of the attic and made a killing.

No such joy for me - I threw my 303 in the bin when I bought a Roland MC4 MicroComposer ... I couldn't give the 303 away.

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^^^^ This is why I think perhaps you are missing out on how many people would actually want one. You just don't get the phanominum related to the 303/909/808. Your trying to replicate a real drums sound and a bass guitar.

This tells me you not from an Electronic Dance Music background and as out of touch with us as roland is.

If a small company like Novation could set up with the Bassstation aimed at filing gaps roland had created as long ago as the early 90s and be so successful there still around today thats all money Roland could have made.
Also other small companies like Quasimidi were born all making dance music sound all predominately influenced from the legendary 303/808/909 and the gaps left from Roland not making any more.

From as far back as I can remember we have had 303 clones and 808/909 clones that have all sold like hot cakes and actually launched many roland competitors.

Novation Bassstation
DeepBass Nine
Freebass 338
Jomox 09
Novation D Station and Drum Station
Jomox 888
Jomox 999
XoxBox
Acidlab Miami
And on and on....

Infact here is a quote from Paul Ward from SOS as far back as 1994!!

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Fashion is a strange animal. It seems like only yesterday that I was cheerfully giving away my Roland TB303 Bassline because I just couldn't sell it! How times have changed. It now seems that just about everyone and his granny's budgie is desperately chasing a not inexhaustible supply of Roland's cheesy little bass-o-matic bleep box. It was, then, perhaps only a matter of time before some enterprising company saw the potential market for a TB303 for the '90s and moved to fill the gap. Enter first Novation's Bass Station, reviewed in SOS July, and now the Deep Bass Nine

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http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_articles/dec94/deepbassnine.html< br />
Nothing has changed. There is still a demand. A demand so strong its still launching companies to this day some 20 odd years later.

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Yep. And wait for the queues to form with their brickbats to claim that the re-release doesn't sound exactly like the original.

And that's quite likely - I doubt very much that they could source the exact same analogue components or a little processor to deal with the sequencing, etc., so people would be complaining that it doesn't sound the same and the sequencing doesn't 'feel' the same.

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THEN MAKE A REPLICA!!!!!! argggggggg!

People want the exact same. Not some modern day idea of what it 'could' have been like!

Yes Prophet 08s are great in their own way the same with the Moog Voyagers, but some would prefer a carbon copy of a MiniMoog as opposed a new model Voyager.

Or make both a replica AND a new model !

Why can NO manufacturer see this? Why can no manufacturer give us what we actually want instead of what they want?

No one can dispute how strong the second hand market is. This is predominantly down to the fact there is a huge gap of currently produces synths that are no where as near as good as they used to be.

Desmond,

You raise some great points in why the VST route may well be for you. And as such you should embrace them. As much as I am very stuck im my hardware ways I do realise there all just hammers and chisels at the end of the day, that is tools to sculpt music.

I could now write a reply saying how I think VSTs are god awful and sound nothing like the originals and id genuinely mean just that. But im not here to try and change what works for you. Whilst I will happily spout my finding and methods to the masse and openly debate about them its your choice.

It goes way beyond just sound quality why I hate VSTs. However if this approach works for you go for it. Lets face it, unless you win the lottery you have little chance of acquiring a real deal Jupiter 8 unless your far more wealthy than me.

EDIT - I just read how you referred to the Jupiter 8 as sexy. Totally agree. Can I ask for my own research do you find VSTs sexy?

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(Sent via my iPhone and no doubt riddled with typos as a result)

Quote kolakube:

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It goes way beyond just sound quality why I hate VSTs. However if this approach works for you go for it. Lets face it, unless you win the lottery you have little chance of acquiring a real deal Jupiter 8 unless your far more wealthy than me.

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How can you HATE a VSTi? I'm not too happy with the idea that a virtual instrument is so often marketed as a copy of something else, and is judged solely by how close the copy is. (For all the talk of originality and personal expression, the market is actually terrified of anything new:-) Be honest, if you put two Jupiter 8s side-by-side and labelled one of them "modern replica" you'd find reasons to hear it as different and inferior! If you analyse down to the level where you think you can hear the difference between one sound card and another, you'll of course find ENORMOUS differences!

We've got so many tools available now for making music. Some make new sounds, some remind us of older ones. I dial up something called "Steinway Piano". It ISN'T one, and I can agonise over the differences. Or I can play music with it. But it's pointless to HATE it!

Quote hollowsun:

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That's just my opinion...

In much the same way that I think people who spend £20,000 on some particular vintage of Les Paul ... or wine or car or furniture, whatever, are loonies and are stupid to pay those prices.

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Lucky for us stupid people that we are happy with what we buy then eh? Guess you should have a bit more fun in your life! Shame to see actually that you feel the need to be so judgemental.

Anyways that is not the discussion here. The fact remains that you might think that only a handful of people would actually buy a re run of for example the TB-303 and that people only pay so much because they are hard to come by. Truth is that thousands of people around the world part with good money at the moment for shoddy remakes, half working originals and anything that claims to generate the real sound. That in itself means there is a pile of money to be made which Roland is missing out on. Do you have any idea how many people by one clone, then are not happy with the sound and buy another one in the hope it does satisfy their needs? I have seen countless people do just that!

I don't expect you to understand us 'loonies' in the dance music industry. But it would be nice to receive some respect without being called 'stupid'.

By the way anyone selling a TB-303 in decent conditions? get in touch!! LOL

Come on man All thats from one word? Your over emphasising the meaning of the word.

To flip that on its head, If I say I 'love' my Juno 6, do you think I sleep in the same bed, make love to it and take it out for dinner etc?

Ok - To fine tune that statement. I extremely dislike VSTs.

Quote kolakube:

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To flip that on its head, If I say I 'love' my Juno 6, do you think I sleep in the same bed, make love to it and take it out for dinner etc?

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Quote Steve Morley:

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Truth is that thousands of people around the world part with good money at the moment for shoddy remakes, half working originals and anything that claims to generate the real sound.

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I thought most pundits, aficionados included, consider the Xoxbox pretty much bang on? It is I believe, with the exception of obsolete components and a PIC (IIRC) as the sequencer's brain, an exact replica.

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote Steve Morley:

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Quote kolakube:

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To flip that on its head, If I say I 'love' my Juno 6, do you think I sleep in the same bed, make love to it and take it out for dinner etc?

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I'd make sweet beautiful love to my synthesisers if I could ... oh, did I think that or actually say it aloud?

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Wow this is still going....

I want a 303...
Well You can't have one...Roland wont make it again
But they should..every one is so dumb not to see the market
Insert LOOONNNNG essays about why and how Roland should do things
Ohh Jupiter 8's are cool
Novation suck
Look at the birds in the sky today
Jupiter 8's are cool...I would pay $999999999999 for one if they made one the same

bla bla bla if some of you spent as much time making music with what ever you have than coming on here to rant that Roland won't make aother "insert classic product here" you might be happier...
The 303, 909, 808's, Wasp's were punk...all but the wasp they were un-cool, cheap give away trash and kids did something with that...abused them...broke the rules and created something cool, why don't you do that with what ever piece of shi* you have now, I don't think any one listening to your record could give a damn if you used a OG TB-303 or Jupiter 8...I do get that it would be nice to have these things but I feel people get too obsessed about clinging on to the past

Ps I knew a guy who chucked two TB-303's cos he couldn't sell them, you have to remember how Roland marketed these.... Some poor folk did buy a 303 with a 606 thinking cool I can have a bass like guitar thingy and a drum machine only the 303 is a cnt to program, sounds nothing like a acoustic instrument and the 606 sounds like frozen peas in a tin can...but to us both of these sound great ;-)

Quote jellyjim:

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Quote Steve Morley:

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Truth is that thousands of people around the world part with good money at the moment for shoddy remakes, half working originals and anything that claims to generate the real sound.

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I thought most pundits, aficionados included, consider the Xoxbox pretty much bang on? It is I believe, with the exception of obsolete components and a PIC (IIRC) as the sequencer's brain, an exact replica.

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I find it comes close but when you start opening up the filter and resonance there is not as much bite as in a real one. It sounds less harsh which is why I love the original so much. Besides that the accent and slide are slighty different.

All in all as I said not bad but not good enough for me to want to use it in a recording.

Vinyl Junkie.

Your forgetting one thing. This is the vintage forum. Where people come to talk about such things. That is the whole point of the forum mate.

If we all just made music and never posted here there wouldn't be a forum.

I for one enjoy conversing about such issues. Helps me dissipate my anxieties associated with Roland's blindness to such issues for the last few decades.

Roland to me are like a grandad trying to relate and be cool with a teenager. They continuously get it so wrong when to get it right would be so easy.

Also the xoxbox rocks. But it isnt an authentic Roland TB303.

For those who don't think that means anything do you own a DVD? Why bother, when you could just have a copy. A strange analogy I know but some of us just like authentic originals.

I could happily make do with a superb Xoxbox. But id much rather have an authentic remake of a TB 303. Or any other roland classic for that matter. (101, Juno 6, 60, 106, Jupiter 4, 6, 8, 808, 909 - Id get an enormous loan and buy the lot!!)

Quote kolakube:

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People want the exact same. Not some modern day idea of what it 'could' have been like!

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Well, I am sure Roland would to love to hear from so that you can maybe tell them where they can get the EXACT same components with the EXACT same tolerances, the EXACT same little Z80 (??) processor, the EXACT same ICs, etc.. I am sure they'd love to know.

What I don't understand is if you are so desperate for one, why don't you just buy one off eBay? They seem to go from anywhere between £600 - £1,300 and they don't appear to be in particularly short supply.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote kolakube:

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It goes way beyond just sound quality why I hate VSTs. However if this approach works for you go for it. Lets face it, unless you win the lottery you have little chance of acquiring a real deal Jupiter 8 unless your far more wealthy than me.

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How can you HATE a VSTi?

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Because in general they sound terrible! Passion is absolutely essential in making music. You should try it sometime.

Quote hollowsun:

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Quote kolakube:

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People want the exact same. Not some modern day idea of what it 'could' have been like!

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Well, I am sure Roland would to love to hear from so that you can maybe tell them where they can get the EXACT same components with the EXACT same tolerances, the EXACT same little Z80 (??) processor, the EXACT same ICs, etc.. I am sure they'd love to know.

What I don't understand is if you are so desperate for one, why don't you just buy one off eBay? They seem to go from anywhere between £600 - £1,300 and they don't appear to be in particularly short supply.

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The real tragedy here is the abrupt halt of development in synthesiser design. What are considered the best synths these days? Minimoog, arp 2600, cs 80, jupiter 8... What happened to progress? Its just dead. I dont want any more rubbish va / pcm rehashes thanks roland. And the digital control and ultra stable oscillators have really taken the fun out of the voyager imo.

Quote Steve Morley:

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Guess you should have a bit more fun in your life!

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I have plenty of fun thanks possibly because I don't obsess myself with the fantasy of manufacturers remaking old gear using 30-year-old technology. As much as I might foam over a VCS3 or Moog modular (and I do ... regularly), I'd rather buy a modern equivalent and just get on with things. This would be my weapon of choice...



And it costs less than a second hand 303!

Quote Steve Morley:

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Truth is that thousands of people around the world part with good money at the moment for shoddy remakes, half working originals and anything that claims to generate the real sound.

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Do they? Or do they just post on forums saying that they would?

And besides... thousands? Pah! Not worth it! Roland would probably want to see TENS of thousands... at least 10,000. Maybe not the engineers and other enthusiasts on Roland's coal face so to speak who may well want to re-issue these old things with a passion but the bean counters looking at profit/loss and ROI. They decide what's made.

And not just the bean counters but the buyers at the big US music store franchises...

"What?!! You really think I can sell THESE in quantity for $2,000?! Are you f'k'n mad?! Yeah - it's great fun an' all but $2,000? I can sell four Alesis Microns for that or a few Korg Micro Xs and those MonoTrons are flying off the shelves! Drop the price to $500 and give me a good margin and I'll think about it ... I might take a few then."

And if you think I am joking, you don't know how much power these people wield in this business we call music. I do and have been on the receiving end of it. And if the US buyers won't/can't shift boxes in big quantities, forget it!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote johnny h:

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The real tragedy here is the abrupt halt of development in synthesiser design.

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Johnny. There is plenty of development in synth design going on but not from the mainstream manufacturers who, like it or not, are going for the mass market. There are plenty of little 'boutique' manufacturers making great, true analogue hardware synths and at reasonable prices if you want quirky and original instruments with personality and character and just bonkers sound creation/mangling facilities.

Which is why I don't understand this obsession with remaking and re-issuing past glories. I don't have time right now to list all the 'cottage industry' manufacturers who are doing these thing but IMO, the analogue hardware synth market has never been better or more vibrant.

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote johnny h:

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The real tragedy here is the abrupt halt of development in synthesiser design. What are considered the best synths these days? Minimoog, arp 2600, cs 80, jupiter 8... What happened to progress? Its just dead.

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Not considered the "best". They are good at what they do, but it's not the be all and end of of synthesis - look at metasynth, csound, kyma etc for something completely different in a different direction.

These analog synths are not the best, but they stay desirable for a number of reasons - nostalgia, rarity, novelty *and* the fact that they still sound good and haven't been really surpassed in what they are (ie analog synths) because the large scale analog synth business died shortly after those pinnacles.

There are still good analog synths being made, but for a whole bunch of reasons a Doepfer modular, or Prophet08 or Andromeda just don't "speak" to me in the same way those synths of the past did, when I was young and impressionable and those machines were dream things way out of my reach.

Quote johnny h:

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The real tragedy here is the abrupt halt of development in synthesiser design. What are considered the best synths these days? Minimoog, arp 2600, cs 80, jupiter 8... What happened to progress? Its just dead.

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No so Johnny.. there are more analogue synth now than ever before

check out all the new synths at Frankfurt this year..

Analogue Frenzy At The Schneidersburo



Edited by Chevytraveller (29/04/11 02:34 PM)

Quote johnny h:

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The real tragedy here is the abrupt halt of development in synthesiser design. What are considered the best synths these days? Minimoog, arp 2600, cs 80, jupiter 8... What happened to progress? Its just dead.

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Quote desmond:

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Quote johnny h:

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The real tragedy here is the abrupt halt of development in synthesiser design. What are considered the best synths these days? Minimoog, arp 2600, cs 80, jupiter 8... What happened to progress? Its just dead.

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Exactly.. and it feels and sounds as good as any of the other mentioned.. and only about €10,000

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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

But I hate it! It doesn't have Roland written on it and it's no clone of a JP-8

Quote desmond:

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Quote johnny h:

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The real tragedy here is the abrupt halt of development in synthesiser design. What are considered the best synths these days? Minimoog, arp 2600, cs 80, jupiter 8... What happened to progress? Its just dead.

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I admire this man immensely for the hard work he put into this. However I can't say I was blown away by the sounds.

The prophet is a good synth, I have used it quite a bit. It doesnt have the warmth of a jupiter however. The filter isnt in the same league as the roland or moog imo.

Modular synths are great but their added complexity does take you a step back from playing. They lack the immediacy and ease of use of the old classics. When you get to jupiter 8 or cs 80 territory nothing I have yet heard has the same magic to my ears.

Quote johnny h:

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When you get to jupiter 8 or cs 80 territory nothing I have yet heard has the same magic to my ears.

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Or maintenance and repair costs!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote hollowsun:

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Quote johnny h:

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When you get to jupiter 8 or cs 80 territory nothing I have yet heard has the same magic to my ears.

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Or maintenance and repair costs!

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The jupiter is pretty reliable as these things go. And the cs 80 sounds great (perhaps even better) when its out of tune (see boards of canada!)

Quote johnny h:

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I admire this man immensely for the hard work he put into this. However I can't say I was blown away by the sounds.

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Have you actually played it?.. it has a serious quality feel about it.. it responds and plays as well as any polysynth I have played and I've played all the ones that have been mentioned here and more. The architecture and modulation possibilities will keep even the most meticulous programmer busy and the attention to detail is just phenomenal and just blew everyone away who had a chance to see it
The Character is somewhere between a CS80 and a Matrix 12..

I don't know what you have heard, but I really don't you can have given the Schmidt a fair hearing.



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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Quote Chevytraveller:

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Quote johnny h:

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I admire this man immensely for the hard work he put into this. However I can't say I was blown away by the sounds.

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Have you actually played it?.. it has a serious quality feel about it.. it responds and plays as well as any polysynth I have played and I've played all the ones that have been mentioned here and more. The architecture and modulation possibilities will keep even the most meticulous programmer busy and the attention to detail is just phenomenal and just blew everyone away who had a chance to see it
The Character is somewhere between a CS80 and a Matrix 12..

I don't know what you have heard, but I really don't you can have given the Schmidt a fair hearing.

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No I haven't played it, only seen videos! At 10 grand it is an enormous investment - you could get a cs80 for that and it would retain its value. But as far as I know it isn't available for sale at present?

I really hope he manages to manufacture a smaller, cheaper polysynth which can push things on from the prophet 08 and maybe even surpass the jupiter. I'd certainly be very interested...

As you have played a lot of synths, what is your opinion of the andromeda ? I have heard widely contrasting views on it and I can't really make up my mind from any audio or youtube examples; nothing of true excellence stands out to me in what I've heard so far.

Quote johnny h:

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No I haven't played it, only seen videos!

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Oh the joys of the internet....

Opinions given with no basis of actual experience. How many products have been trashed and suffered at the hands of people opining with no experience of the thing in question, I wonder?!

The Schmidt doesn't appeal to me but I wouldn't judge it on the few crap videos I've seen of it.

And BTW, a chum of mine had a Jupiter 8 and he got rid of it because it was so troublesome. Luck of the draw I suppose - he had a lemon that was always breaking down. Another had a CS80 and he couldn't afford to keep having it tuned.

Similarly, a neighbour has some old vintage car - he spends more time with the bonnet open and tinkering and adjusting stuff on the drive or fixing stuff in the kitchen (much to his mrs' chagrin) than he does driving it.

I'm well known for my almost unhealthy love of old gear but there comes a point where you have to be realistic and not nostalgic!

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Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Those fortunate enough to be able to invest in a Schmidt won't see any loss on their investment.. these babies will stay exclusive and collectable like the Waldorf Wave, DX1 and other such uber-synths

Sadly, the Andromeda is one of the few Polysynths I haven't played.. would very much like to have tried one, but they came out whilst I was taking a "break" from the industry.
Think they are probably destined to become another modern classic..

As it is, they are remain a good example of why the big companies won't go back to analogue.. from what I read, Alesis got their fingers very badly burned by the Andromeda as it just didn't sell as hoped.. so why would Roland risk so much on the same venture.
such a shame but that's just the way the market is



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MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Quote Chevytraveller:

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As it is, they are remain a good example of why the big companies won't go back to analogue.. from what I read, Alesis got their fingers very badly burned by the Andromeda as it just didn't sell as hoped.. so why would Roland risk so much on the same venture.

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Andromeda is classic example of the difficulties in producing a modern day proper analogue synth. It all but bankrupted Alesis and took them close to the wall until they were picked up by Numark who, in fairness to them, allowed them to continue to develop Andromeda to fruition. It was moderately successful and therein lies a story...

It was built to cater for all the requests on forums and the like, to please all those people who claimed that if there was a proper, true analogue synth with this, that and the other features, they would buy one in a heartbeat, no hesitation.

Andromeda was pretty much that synth and they didn't!

Andromeda's a fine sounding synth. I have had experience of it and it's rich and powerful and deep and sounds fab and moves speaker cones as they were meant to be moved! I am hoping my friend Shreddie will be along to extol its virtues having owned one for several years. But commercially? People didn't put their money where their mouth was! They seldom do!

But yes - Andromeda is a salutory lesson in the problems associated with mass producing an analogue synth for the mass market. It's best left to the smaller boutique entrepreneurs! IMO.

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KolaKube had a Andromeda for 10 minutes before selling it again

Can't remember if he liked it or not...but it didn't have Roland written on it and wasn't OG 1983 vintage so it's not interesting or cool.

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Also the xoxbox rocks. But it isnt an authentic Roland TB303.

I could happily make do with a superb Xoxbox. But id much rather have an authentic remake of a TB 303. Or any other roland classic for that matter. (101, Juno 6, 60, 106, Jupiter 4, 6, 8, 808, 909 - Id get an enormous loan and buy the lot!!)

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The x0xb0x essentially is an authentic remake of the TB-303. I can point you to circuit diagrams if you like and you can compare.
Roland will never remake the 303 or any of their other classics though, for all the reasons i've mentioned in a 303 thread already around here. Hollowsun also made some good points as to why Roland wouldn't do it.
So don't get your hopes up, because it won't happen.

Go for an old original. Or look to the smaller boutique companies. There is some superb kit out there, if you look for it. Not all the good stuff these days is advertised all over the SoS mag you know..

Paul

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Paul

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Quote johnny h:

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No I haven't played it, only seen videos!

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Oh the joys of the internet....

Opinions given with no basis of actual experience. How many products have been trashed and suffered at the hands of people opining with no experience of the thing in question, I wonder?!

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You are far too quick to jump down my throat. I did not 'trash' the synth. Its not even it production so not actually playing the thing isn't the most heinous of crimes against audio. I know full well a synth can be full of terrible presets yet have a beautiful heart beating beneath...

All I said was I didnt like the few sounds I have heard, so calm down with the self righteous criticism. I'm here to learn, not judge. I don't have 10 grand to spend on a synth anyway and I doubt many others here do either.

Getting back to the point, do you think there is any sonic reason the andromeda is not talked in the same breath as the jupiter 8? I have heard complaints that the digital envelopes let the sound down, the filter is good but not the best, and there is an unnatural bass boost in the signal path. Also it is very hard to program. Can anyone confirm or deny these things?

Vinyl Junkie

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KolaKube had a Andromeda for 10 minutes before selling it again

Can't remember if he liked it or not...but it didn't have Roland written on it and wasn't OG 1983 vintage so it's not interesting or cool.

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Well why don't you just ask him?? Or are your comments designed for a different reason that is to provoke me for no apparent reason?

Quite an interesting point you have raised never the less. I sold my Andromeda to buy a Roland Jupiter 4. The Roland Jupiter 4 was far superior for my purposes. Thanks for highlighting another reason I forgot about why I prefer classic kit.


Johnny H

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The real tragedy here is the abrupt halt of development in synthesiser design. What are considered the best synths these days? Minimoog, arp 2600, cs 80, jupiter 8... What happened to progress? Its just dead. I dont want any more rubbish va / pcm rehashes thanks roland. And the digital control and ultra stable oscillators have really taken the fun out of the voyager imo.

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I totally agree. As I said earlier. Although I cannot testify to any modular system as I have never had the pleasure. But if we just stick to keyboards the modern day analogues are not a patch on the classics.

Also what the hell were Moog thinking with a DCO? I thought that too.

OFF TOPIC

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Medal to Jelly Jim the OP.