Quote hollowsun:

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I'm well known for my almost unhealthy love of old gear but there comes a point where you have to be realistic and not nostalgic!

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Me too! Most people think I'm an old synth nut and think I'm mad for trying to keep those old Rolands, Oberheims, Moogs, etc. running in my studio (and it's certainly not economical to do so), but I'm not so blinded by nostalgia that I can't see the benefits of MTron over the real thing over which I lusted for most of my life (for example).

Really, I don't see the point of either/or choices for music - just use what you can and stop obsessing!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote kolakube:

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Vinyl Junkie

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KolaKube had a Andromeda for 10 minutes before selling it again

Can't remember if he liked it or not...but it didn't have Roland written on it and wasn't OG 1983 vintage so it's not interesting or cool.

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Well why don't you just ask him?? Or are your comments designed for a different reason that is to provoke me for no apparent reason?

Quite an interesting point you have raised never the less. I sold my Andromeda to buy a Roland Jupiter 4. The Roland Jupiter 4 was far superior for my purposes. Thanks for highlighting another reason I forgot about why I prefer classic kit.

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Why? Was the sound inferior? Was it the digital envelopes or the difficulty in programming, the filter or just the general tone of it? I missed out on one a few years back for a great price of £850. It pains me to see them on ebay now!

None of that really mate. It was more the fact one of the first pieces of music to ever blow me away was League Unlimited - Love and Dancing.

The Jupiter 4 is all over that.

I suppose I like it simple also. The Andy's modulation capabilities was mind blowing and way beyond what I would ever need. Also a buggy OS.

And I love the way the Jupiter 4 has none of those things. Not a menu in sight.

Horses for courses. I cant say the Andy was a bad synth.

Quote kolakube:

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OFF TOPIC

Since this sub forum started in 2004 no other thread has received more replies or being more active.

Medal to Jelly Jim the OP.

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<elvis_voice>uh fank yer vereh much</elvis_voice>

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Quote kolakube:

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Also what the hell were Moog thinking with a DCO? I thought that too.

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No DCOs in the Voyager. The interface is under digital control but the signal path is pure analog IIRC

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Let's not forget DCO's are analogue oscillators........sure, digitally controlled and not quite the same as VCO's but still 'pure' analogue.

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Jonny

Quote jellyjim:

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Quote kolakube:

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Also what the hell were Moog thinking with a DCO? I thought that too.

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No DCOs in the Voyager. The interface is under digital control but the signal path is pure analog IIRC

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"Three wide-range, high stability VCO's (Voltage Controlled Oscillators) with continuously-variable waveforms."

http://www.moogmusic.com/selectseries/ -> Specs

VCO's vs DCO's debate really is pointless...There's bad ones and good ones of each. A synthesizer should be judged on it's sound not it's specifications or what design topology it's based on..I feel now days people judge things before they even listen to them with a biased mind.
Cos something is analogue it means it MUST be better and cos it's discrete means it's even better ;-)

Probs every one thinks DCO's suck cos they played a Jen SX-1000 lol

While there are still people out there thinking the Oxford OSCar is a analogue synth

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Probs every one thinks DCO's suck cos they played a Jen SX-1000 lol

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Nope - My Juno sounds great

Isn't the OSCar analogue - ie DCO's? I've read a little about it's additive capabilities via generated waveforms but thought there where DCO's in there somewhere or is it like the DW8000 with sampled/generated waveforms?

VSE says DCO's but then it has been known to be wrong!!

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Jonny

Edited by fatbenelton (30/04/11 07:10 PM)

It has digital oscillators and additive synthesis. No analog oscillators at all.

Gotcha - ta!

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Jonny

Put a Roland JX (Juno even more so) DCO up against a Jupiter VCO and it sounds alarmingly 'plastic', but that's perfect for certain sounds and styles. The Junos definitely have a 'twang' to their sound that I grew to loathe over the years I had one - familiarity breeding contempt, I suppose.

Somehow that twang was largely tamed in the JX-8P onwards and gives a lovely 'wooliness' when you close the filter down.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Suppose it depends on your style of music elf if you like an instrument or not.

Incidentally William Orbit allegedly used only a Juno 106 for all the sounds on Madonna's Ray of Light LP

(I love saying that. If its Madonnas LP how comes William Orbit made all the music - I know, I know its been like this since the beginning of time, but ill never get my head around on person claiming an entire piece of work when they just sang on it. Plagiarism we call it at uni.)

Quote kolakube:

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Suppose it depends on your style of music elf if you like an instrument or not.

Incidentally William Orbit allegedly used only a Juno 106 for all the sounds on Madonna's Ray of Light LP

(I love saying that. If its Madonnas LP how comes William Orbit made all the music - I know, I know its been like this since the beginning of time, but ill never get my head around on person claiming an entire piece of work when they just sang on it. Plagiarism we call it at uni.)

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Years ago I was preparing a backing track for a Madonna song (sorry, can't remember which one) and realised that I could reproduce all the sounds EXACTLY from presets on a DX7.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote kolakube:

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Suppose it depends on your style of music elf if you like an instrument or not.

Incidentally William Orbit allegedly used only a Juno 106 for all the sounds on Madonna's Ray of Light LP

(I love saying that. If its Madonnas LP how comes William Orbit made all the music - I know, I know its been like this since the beginning of time, but ill never get my head around on person claiming an entire piece of work when they just sang on it. Plagiarism we call it at uni.)

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Years ago I was preparing a backing track for a Madonna song (sorry, can't remember which one) and realised that I could reproduce all the sounds EXACTLY from presets on a DX7.

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all of 'em!

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My head hurts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq39yd1OTTU

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq39yd1OTTU

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i can hear differences in some patterns but not others, in the patterns where i can hear a difference i prefer the original

the differences are marginal, i would be satisfied with a xoxbox

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Watching a highly compressed video doesn't really do anything for me.

Would have to be a 16 bit wav file to make a fair comparison. Not a 96k you tube video.

But if you point is the xox sounds superb and is the best 303 clone yet, I have no doubt of that. But my point was, Id rather have an original Roland.

Much like if I were rich and into cars Id like an actual Bentley, not a clone.

However if Bentleys were out of production and a clone was all I could get, so be it. But if the choice were there.....

Quote kolakube:

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But my point was, Id rather have an original Roland.

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Wait.. First you wanted Roland to make a new one, and you'd even pay £1300 one. Now you want an original one?
I honestly wonder if you have the faintest clue what you are on about.

Paul

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Paul

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Wait.. First you wanted Roland to make a new one, and you'd even pay £1300 one. Now you want an original one?

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Why wait? If Roland make a new run it will be an original Roland TB303, much like you can get a copy or an original Rolex watch.

Whether its an 1980s run or a 2011 run it will still be an authentic original Roland made IE not a clone or copy.

Yes, I would pay £1300 for an brand new Roland one. This has not changed at all.

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I honestly wonder if you have the faintest clue what you are on about.

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Well let me reassure you, I have! I haven't changed anything I have originally said.

Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to try and score points. I don't see why you would say this remark as you haven't contributed to this thread at all apart from to say "go on then"

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Years ago I was preparing a backing track for a Madonna song (sorry, can't remember which one) and realised that I could reproduce all the sounds EXACTLY from presets on a DX7.

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I bet it was 'Cherish'.

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And Bagpuss, once he was asleep, was just a saggy old cloth cat.

Quote kolakube:

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Wait.. First you wanted Roland to make a new one, and you'd even pay £1300 one. Now you want an original one?

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Why wait? If Roland make a new run it will be an original Roland TB303

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No it won't, it will just have a Roland badge on it so you can get your kicks admit it.

Re-issue of any product is incredibly difficult, unless you get a time machine and go back in time to make one it will be different from the original in some way or another..small or big, there are SOO many varibles.

Look at when Urei re-issued the 1620, the original is still regarded as better or “different”

The new Oberheim SEM....it sounds great and is MEGA close to the original but it's still a bit different and now uses surface mount technology.

The x0x box IS basicaly a new TB-303 and is as close as you will get imo, can any one photo shop me one and stick a Roland badge on it for Kola please

Also the BassStation wasn't a 303 clone, it's more close to the EDP Wasp than a 303 it was just marketed for what ever was cool at the time and like most synths can make a 303 "like" sound

Edited by vinyl_junkie (02/05/11 05:26 PM)

Quote jellyjim:

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Quote vinyl_junkie:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq39yd1OTTU

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i can hear differences in some patterns but not others, in the patterns where i can hear a difference i prefer the original

the differences are marginal, i would be satisfied with a xoxbox

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I certainly wouldn't.

There are 100 million acid tunes out there. If I was going to make another one I'd have to make damn sure it was pretty special! The xoxbox doesn't have the bubbly squelch of the real 303 which made it so popular. It too easily sounds flat and lifeless.

I certainly don't care about the badge. Could have a behringer badge on it for all i care, as long as it sounds good.

Vinyl Junkie

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No it won't, it will just have a Roland badge on it so you can get your kicks admit it.

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Totally admit it. The Roland badge gives me kicks. When have I not said that? I am a classic Roland fan and fanatic. I think every post I have posted here backs that up 100%.

Roland are a company that have literally shaped my musical tastes for my entire life. From Human Leagues J4, to the Acid and Techno from the likes of the 101, 303, 808, 909 to Juno's that were on just about everything from Howard Jones to the Pet Shop Boys.

So yes, a Roland badge is important to me but only when it is matched by a superb Roland product.

What is wrong will liking a brand? A one that has influenced me so much and will continue to do so till the day I die thanks to my formative years.

So yeah, I admit it.

To conclude this point thought your sort of missing the entire point of this thread.

Roland have indeed put a badge on many things such as the new Juno range and the no doubt awful Jupiter 80.
Do you see me slavering after that? No!

So its not quite as simple as sticking a Roland badge on it. Something Roland seem great at lately sadly. There equally good at slapping Juno, SH and Jupiter badges on stuff also.

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The x0x box IS basicaly a new TB-303 and is as close as you will get imo,

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Also agreed, again, what I have been saying all the long. However it is still a Xox Box and not an original Roland TB303. See above. I am a Roland fanatic/enthusiast/sentimentalist and as such would love an original authentic made 303. Much like a kid may prefer real deal Nike trainers to unbranded ones.

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can any one photo shop me one and stick a Roland badge on it for Kola please

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Just like I could get a clone Bentley car as in my example if I were a classic car collector. However if I photo shopped a badge on it does not change the fact it is not a real deal original Bentley, so what would that achieve?

Guess your one of these people who buys knock off Lacoste tops for a fiver. IE T shirts from Fruit of the Loom with a crocodile stitched on.

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Also the BassStation wasn't a 303 clone, it's more close to the EDP Wasp than a 303 it was just marketed for what ever was cool at the time and like most synths can make a 303 "like" sound

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Novation aggressively advertise the Bass Station as a 101, 202 303 and even mini moog replacement, im looking at the advert in a 90s music mag right now, thats not down to me. But again I agree, it sounds bot all like a 303, or any of them to be fair. But it is a great instrument in its own right.

Johnny

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I certainly wouldn't.

There are 100 million acid tunes out there. If I was going to make another one I'd have to make damn sure it was pretty special! The xoxbox doesn't have the bubbly squelch of the real 303 which made it so popular. It too easily sounds flat and lifeless.

I certainly don't care about the badge. Could have a behringer badge on it for all i care, as long as it sounds good.

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Lol - Im the total opposite mate. Sound wise I like the Xox and think its very capable. I could imagine buying one one day in a few years or so.

Difference is I really wish Roland would make it and Id gladly pay twice the price.

Talk about opposite desires

Quote kolakube:

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Quote:

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I certainly wouldn't.

There are 100 million acid tunes out there. If I was going to make another one I'd have to make damn sure it was pretty special! The xoxbox doesn't have the bubbly squelch of the real 303 which made it so popular. It too easily sounds flat and lifeless.

I certainly don't care about the badge. Could have a behringer badge on it for all i care, as long as it sounds good.

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Lol - Im the total opposite mate. Sound wise I like the Xox and think its very capable. I could imagine buying one one day in a few years or so.

Difference is I really wish Roland would make it and Id gladly pay twice the price.

Talk about opposite desires

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Roland are dead to me

Any embers of respect have been well and truly extinguished by their latest 'jupiter' heresy. I'd rather the xoxbox sounded better than the 303, I really would, but it falls short on the magic.

I'm not that fussed about being a 'collector'. Its all about the sound for me.

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Roland are dead to me

Any embers of respect have been well and truly extinguished by their latest 'jupiter' heresy.

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Yeah I hear you on that one. They resemble nothing of what they did in the last millennium.

Its fair to say in my minds eye I have split the company into 'Roland" (Modern day badge stickers on-ers) and 'Roland Classic' The company that influenced electronic dance music more so than any other.

Does any one remember the old Roland slogan they had under the brand name around 99/2000 "Roland, we design the future"
I wonder if they still use that one lol

Also they did give people a 303...and bad it was indeed, behold the EF-303! A FX device that is also supposed to make squelchy 303 sounds


And also the not so bad SP-303 but then that was a phrase sampler...and I'm sure there were loads more 303 numbers

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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Does any one remember the old Roland slogan they had under the brand name around 99/2000 "Roland, we design the future"

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Sure. I had a Roland carrier bag with that on it from the British Music Fair back in the actual eighties (I think from the year the Korg M1 debuted, so 88/89ish).

Quote desmond:

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Quote vinyl_junkie:

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Does any one remember the old Roland slogan they had under the brand name around 99/2000 "Roland, we design the future"

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Sure. I had a Roland carrier bag with that on it from the British Music Fair back in the actual eighties (I think from the year the Korg M1 debuted, so 88/89ish).

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1988 ... the heyday of PCM synthesis. Was that also the year Roland sacked its entire R&D department?

@ Vinyl Junkie

lol - Id never seen that before. Good point, they also abuse acctual model name like the 303 too.

@ Johnny

There were a few decent synths after. I like the JP8000 and loads rate the V synth. Also they made decent romplers like the JV1080 but then the didnt stick jupiter or juno on it anywhere

Quote kolakube:

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Totally admit it. The Roland badge gives me kicks. When have I not said that? I am a classic Roland fan and fanatic. I think every post I have posted here backs that up 100%.

Roland are a company that have literally shaped my musical tastes for my entire life. From Human Leagues J4, to the Acid and Techno from the likes of the 101, 303, 808, 909 to Juno's that were on just about everything from Howard Jones to the Pet Shop Boys.

So yes, a Roland badge is important to me but only when it is matched by a superb Roland product.

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So they ditched "Roland" on hi-tech stuff in favour of "Edirol". Go figure. The owners of "Royal Mail" don't appreciate what they've got either.

The more I think about the more saddened I feel that Roland have seen fit to pawn the family jewels in giving this pub-gig keyboard its kickstart by saddling it with the 'Jupiter' name.

Roland have publically described it as "the successor of the famous Jupiter 8". And they claim that the original JP8 was designed to produce the sound of acoustic instruments. So we get demos of piano, brass and accordian. It's tragically laughable. The JP8 was a REAL synth - something that Roland no longer seem capable of producing.

Roland - I think you had one chance to re-use the Jupiter name with integrity and you blew it. Moog showed you the way to do it with their Voyagers, Phatties and Taurus 3. They'll be getting more of my money if they can hold the line.

"My blood runs cold, my memory has just been sold. My angel is a centerfold."

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote vinyl_junkie:

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Does any one remember the old Roland slogan they had under the brand name around 99/2000 "Roland, we design the future"
I wonder if they still use that one lol

Also they did give people a 303...and bad it was indeed, behold the EF-303! A FX device that is also supposed to make squelchy 303 sounds


And also the not so bad SP-303 but then that was a phrase sampler...and I'm sure there were loads more 303 numbers

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the ef303 is quite interesting actually if you ignore the utterly irrelevant 303 name

the sliders can set effects parameters (bit like parameter locks on elektron gear) and everything spits out MIDI so it's potentially a useful control surface

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

Elf -

Well said. We may disagree on the old VST debate but that was very well put.

Jim,

I think the thing is I cant ignore it mate. Naming things 303 and Jupiter turns my stomach cold.

I may be interested in hearing one of they could just stop this marketing nonsense.

As soon as I see Jupiter plastered on the side of it I am instantly left with a bitter taste in my mouth.
As if Roland are laughing at me, "he he he - look at that fool, he thinks its a Jupiter because we stuck a badge on it ha ha haaaaaa" kind of thing.

The Jupiter 80 may well be a great modern day digital workstation. But thanks to their marketing im just not interested.
Same with all the modern day Junos that have bot all to do with the Alphas or 106s or previous, I could never see myself ever wanting anything to do with them.

I just feel Roland are sniggering at me.

The Roland of today certainly is a long way from the Roland of the 80's and early 90's.

At least Korg manages to not be afraid to innovate, to try new things - have some safe workstation keyboards, make some sexier more upmarket synths, revitalise it's past by creting good software emulations of it's desirable IP, make lots of inexpensive but fun and inspirational machines that puts some nice music making potential in the hands of users etc - and it seems to be doing ok for them (as much as any hardware company affected by the rise of software).

Roland were at least one kind of ultimate sexy for me - but those days are long gone. I suspect it's partly an age thing, though...

Quote desmond:

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At least Korg manages to not be afraid to innovate, to try new things - have some safe workstation keyboards, make some sexier more upmarket synths, revitalise it's past by creting good software emulations of it's desirable IP, make lots of inexpensive but fun and inspirational machines that puts some nice music making potential in the hands of users etc - and it seems to be doing ok for them (as much as any hardware company affected by the rise of software).

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I agree...Korg are really on the ball and have been for a while and as you said their product lines are quite clear...Roland should learn a few things from them
I'm not a huge fan of the Korg "sound" but I have to give them a big pat on the back for what they are doing

Desmond

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At least Korg manages to not be afraid to innovate, to try new things - have some safe workstation keyboards, make some sexier more upmarket synths, revitalise it's past by creting good software emulations of it's desirable IP, make lots of inexpensive but fun and inspirational machines that puts some nice music making potential in the hands of users etc - and it seems to be doing ok for them (as much as any hardware company affected by the rise of software).

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Yeah, Korg are at least pushing forward where as Roland are just recycling very poorly.

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Roland were at least one kind of ultimate sexy for me - but those days are long gone. I suspect it's partly an age thing, though...

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I know what your saying but I don't know. Ive no idea how old you are but im 37 so, yeah its fair to say everything is more exiting when your a teenager. No doubt because most experiences are virgin ones.

But if Roland released a range of synths on par with the original run of Jupiter's and Junos Id be very exited still. It would be like a breath of fresh air.

I know acid may not be your bag and its pretty much all the 303 can do but as ive been saying here, if Roland made another new TB303 ib be very excited. Would have me reaching for my credit card.

Roland haven't really been doing it for me for some time

If you want a double bass there are great sample libraries for that