Something that's been bugging me for years now. I know that most of this album is Daniel Miller's Arp 2600 and sequencer (iirc it's about 80% the 2600), but the Arp is one of 2 synths used on the album. What's the other one? I can't hear it as being anything obvious (no distinctive Roland sub-osc, etc) - anyone got a link to an interview?



--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

It's got a Pro One on it according to this...

http://www.unease.se/proone.htm

...and apparently a Minikorg 700S.

http://www.tuug.fi/~jaakko/dm/keyboards.html

Yea I also read that a 700s was used too... I got one my self, great synth!

Hmm, well Vince Clarke had a Jupiter 4 (which he used to lug about underarm on the tube, apparently) and they had stuff like a Prodigy and CS5 around that time too. I've never seen any hard & fast "this is what we used" list from the people who made it, though, and nothing from others that doesn't conflict, either with the timeline of available equipment, or each other. I take all suggestions with a pinch of salt.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some 808 snares on there, alongside the 2600-generated kicks and blips. I believe that's what happened on Upstairs at Eric's, and the two albums have a very similar build.

I can't hear a Jupiter 4. Had one many moons ago and know the sound, but nothing leaps out at me as being JP4... And whilst I'd like to think that there was a proone on it, some old memory rattling round the back of my head keeps making me think that Vince didn't get one until after then - though I'd love to be proven wrong. Korg 700s would make sense though...

But that album really is a tour de force for the 2600

It's funny - everyone is trying to make big ballsy Moog-y type analogue synths at the moment, but I nobody seems to be making anything that is more Arp-y .. all the punch and weight of the Moog sound, but more 'zing' to the sound. I'm guessing that if I want that, then I'll have to look into a modular..

--------------------
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi
(I came, I saw, I conkered)

look on YouTube for them playing 'New Life' and 'Just Can't Get Enough' on Top of the Pops, and see what they had!
(or course, this may just be what was in the BBC prop cupboard Or it may be what they'd brought with them to match their cheeky leather outfits.....)

I wouldn't rule out there being Jupiter 4 on there, for instance... not *every* JP4 sound has 4VCO unison, squawking FM from the bender, or the arpeggiator on 'Random', you know! You can make plenty of traditional analogue sounds on it that are fairly generic and would be hard to identify as JP4 just by listening.

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote Dave B:

---

whilst I'd like to think that there was a proone on it, some old memory rattling round the back of my head keeps making me think that Vince didn't get one until after then

---

There's a section on his website where he talks about his synths...

http://www.vinceclarkemusic.com/video/index.html

First up is the Pro One, which he says he bought around 1982, so it looks like you're right (Speak and Spell being 1981).

Quote feline1:

---

(or course, this may just be what was in the BBC prop cupboard

---

That's always the danger of going by TOTP or videos... they're not necessarily using their own gear.

As for the JP-4, when I got mine a few years ago I was playing the presets and the "saxophone" (I use inverted commas deliberately there...) jumped out as being very Vince-ish.

EDIT: the link above to VC's own videos contains one of the JP-4 - he says he used it for "most of the DM gigs in 1981".

The Korg KR55 provides a lot of the drums on Speak and Spell - preset but tweakable.....

I also thought the JP-4 and Prodigy was used as well................

--------------------
Jonny

Quote nathanscribe:

---

Quote feline1:

---

(or course, this may just be what was in the BBC prop cupboard

---

That's always the danger of going by TOTP or videos... they're not necessarily using their own gear.

---

Yeah - particularly when you see a band miming piano sounds on 3 Yamaha CS-80s, or whatever.

But in Depeche's case, the gear they had on those appearences (CS-10, Prodigy, JP4? or summat like that) does seem similar to what I've read talked about as being used at their early gigs, and seen in other footage (e.g. on the documentary on the Speak & Spell 5.1 DVD)

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote fatbenelton:

---

The Korg KR55 provides a lot of the drums on Speak and Spell

---

I've always assumed that to be one of the urban myths of the synth world - I've never seen any real evidence it was used, and though the snare sounds similar, the KR can't be triggered from anything, plus I thought they used the ARP sequencer fired from tape.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just another widely-accepted rumour, either.

Some interesting reading http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec98/articles/daniel.624.htm

And also from a interview with John Freyer
"Home to spooks or not, for a period of time in the early '80s, chiefly thanks to Depeche Mode, Blackwing became the home of the hits. The Basildon quartet recorded their first two albums there, 1981's Speak & Spell and 1982's A Broken Frame, with Fryer engineering using a Tascam eight-track and rudimentary sequencing. Favoured synths of the day included the Kawai 100F, Korg Minikorg 700s, Moog Prodigy, Roland Jupiter and SH1, Yamaha CS5, and perhaps most importantly, the ARP 2600."

Quote nathanscribe:

---

Quote fatbenelton:

---

The Korg KR55 provides a lot of the drums on Speak and Spell

---

I've always assumed that to be one of the urban myths of the synth world

---

I got one just last month and it's defo a candidate though to be fair I haven't instantly managed to recreate everything on Speak & Spell.....It was defo used on Photographic as this vid shows.........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJ-BAGrK5E

It's a great machine..........

--------------------
Jonny

Yes, I've occasionally scoped sales at various times over the last few years... never pulled the trigger though. I have service notes if you should ever need them, by the way.

As for S&S, I would suspect some layering and/or replacement going on with some of the sounds as well. I very much doubt those rhythm tracks are as basic as they seem.

well people had to be inventive back then!

John Foxx's metamatic was only done with a Roland CR78, but if you listen to the album, a CR78 sure doesn't sound like that all on it's own! They had to be devious in the FX they put on (a lot of flanging, ussually) and managing to throw ridiculous amounts of reverb on the snare at times but dropping things in and out on the desk, dub-style.

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote feline1:

---

John Foxx's metamatic was only done with a Roland CR78, but if you listen to the album, a CR78 sure doesn't sound like that all on it's own! They had to be devious in the FX they put on (a lot of flanging, ussually)

---

MXR Flanger-Doubler, on Metamatic, I think. I read an interview about the recording of that album and he said there were about 500 (IIRC) different patches written down for it, for the ARP Odyssey. I believe he still has the patch sheets... it's a great album, a wonderful example of what can be done with attention to detail and not much gear - as is S&S.

John Foxx clearly still loves his CR78....His newer stuff - John Foxx & the Maths -still has a fair smattering of CR78. Interplay is a cracking album and there is another out this month I think...

--------------------
Jonny

Quote fatbenelton:

---

[The KR55} was defo used on Photographic as this vid shows.........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYJ-BAGrK5E

---

Seems maybe that was just the one version, the Some Bizarre version - I've also just listened to a demo with what I think is the Boss Dr-55, but I still think the 1981 album version uses custom sounds - the kick is different, and the constant hats are gone. There's quite an even spread of the drum sounds across the whole album that to me doesn't have the ring of the KR55 about it. Kick and snare are pretty easy to make on a regular but capable monosynth, but hats are not. Conjecture only, but I'd like to know for certain.

I knew Daniel Miller back then and he told me that the kicks and snares for S&S were ARP2600. Can't say if there were ALL 2600 but he told me words to the effect of "I do kick and snare on the ARP2600". Vince Clarke carried on the tradition after he left (and there's some vid Vince made of him showing how).

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Interesting, cheers. I've just listened to the album through, and there's very little else percussive going on except kick and snare. Occasional blips, noise bursts that are short enough to resemble hats, no cymbals, a few swept tom-like sounds - but not many. It's almost exclusively kick and snare and around 4 melodic parts plus vocals.

Note to self: win lottery, buy 2600.

Quote nathanscribe:

---

Note to self: win lottery, buy 2600.

---

Man same here, even a Odyssey will do lol I almost had a CAT but that deal never went through.

Any way I was really amazed by this.. I guess it's cheaper than a 2600 LOL
http://soundcloud.com/peahix/yamaha-cs01ii-plays-big-muff

http://soundcloud.com/peahix/yamaha-cs01ii-plays-new-life

Check the other songs too

Edited by vinyl_junkie (11/04/12 08:11 PM)

Ooh, nice job... I used to have a CS01. Bought it from Cash Convertors for £25, sold it on eBay for over £150. It was OK but I only really liked the PWM bass sound. Had a few CSes since then, have just the 40m now. That's a corker, but I'm going to have to go in some time and sort out the LFO routing switches. I might need a rope...

Funny what listening to this old stuff does to the brain. I just spent an hour playing Photographic and making patches for it on my Moog LP. Fun times. Now onto beer and old Dr Who. Life is good! Or sad, depending on outlook.

Quote nathanscribe:

---

Note to self: win lottery, buy 2600.

---

Nah!

I had one. Paid £400 for it. It's nice but not £10,000's+ worth nice ... which seems to be the sort of completely silly money they go for these days - bloody insane ... $$$$$$s for dewy-eyed nostalgia!

For that kind of do$h, you could buy this, brand new, from Synthesizers.com which would crap all over it and still leave you a LOT of change even after all the import duties...



For 'just' £1,600 (plus import duties), you could buy this which is in almost every way comparable if not better than a 2600...



I have one that's similar and it is by far and away the best synth I have ever owned. And (unlike the ARP2600), it's a true modular and will soon be expanded to this...



Synthesizers.com

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote nathanscribe:

---

old Dr Who. Life is good! Or sad, depending on outlook

---

Good.

Early Who was fab, especially REALLY early Who with William Hartnell.

--------------------
Website / Music Lab Machines / Blog

Quote nathanscribe:

---

Interesting, cheers. I've just listened to the album through, and there's very little else percussive going on except kick and snare. Occasional blips, noise bursts that are short enough to resemble hats, no cymbals, a few swept tom-like sounds - but not many. It's almost exclusively kick and snare and around 4 melodic parts plus vocals.

---

Yeah but what about "Shout!" (the B-side to New Life)? It's got a veritable menagerie of electronic percussion going on!
The album is pretty minimal in its choice of percussion sounds though, as you say...

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote hollowsun:

---

Quote nathanscribe:

---

old Dr Who. Life is good! Or sad, depending on outlook

---

Good.

Early Who was fab, especially REALLY early Who with William Hartnell.

---

heresy!
Everyone knows the BEST Dr Who was all those missing Patrick Troughton episodes that don't exist any more to prove me wrong

(Actually my favourite story remains 1970's INFERNO, not least cos Pertwee is accompanied by Delia Derbyshire's "Blue Veils and Golden Sands", "The Delian Mode" and the spring-reverberated roar of a VCS3 pretty much the whole way through.)

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote feline1:

---

Yeah but what about "Shout!" (the B-side to New Life)? It's got a veritable menagerie of electronic percussion going on!

---

That, plus Just Can't Get Enough - which is bit more lively too. But yes, the bulk of the album is pretty stripped back.

Have you heard Music For Parties (Silicon Teens, aka Daniel Miller). Very much a proto-DM thing going on there. Even more basic, but has a very similar feel. Mostly covers, but the tracks Miller wrote are clearly his and stand out a mile.

Quote vinyl_junkie:

---

Any way I was really amazed by this.. I guess it's cheaper than a 2600 LOL
http://soundcloud.com/peahix/yamaha-cs01ii-plays-big-muff

http://soundcloud.com/peahix/yamaha-cs01ii-plays-new-life

---

Oh.
My.
God.


I have had a studio full of synths for years (including the CS01) and have yet to reach this level of programming versatility. Brilliant. I can't believe how good the drums sound!

--------------------
Adam Inglis
A Disco Ate My BABY!

Quote vinyl_junkie:

---

[

Any way I was really amazed by this.. I guess it's cheaper than a 2600 LOL
http://soundcloud.com/peahix/yamaha-cs01ii-plays-big-muff

http://soundcloud.com/peahix/yamaha-cs01ii-plays-new-life

Check the other songs too

---

wow! lol Listeed to New Life and was a bit amazed... then I read it was modded with CV/Gate sockets and sequenced! Slightly cheating But a good effort nonetheless

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

There is a song and sincerity in 'personal jesus' I had not expected from Depeche Mode . So now I check out Speak and Spell.
What do Depeche Mode fans think? It must be awful!

--------------------
17ft here! Too deep for non divers.

Edited by St.Hamund the contrite (14/04/12 04:01 AM)

Quote St.Hamund the contrite:

---

There is a song and sincerity in 'personal jesus' I had not expected from Depeche Mode . So now I check out Speak and Spell.
What do Depeche Mode fans think? It must be awful!

---

I think you're another of the mods' comedy sockpuppets, and you should kindly leave the stage.

--------------------
~~~ A weasel hath not such a deal of spleen as you are tossed with! www.feline1.co.uk ~~~

Quote feline1:

---

Quote St.Hamund the contrite:

---

There is a song and sincerity in 'personal jesus' I had not expected from Depeche Mode . So now I check out Speak and Spell.
What do Depeche Mode fans think? It must be awful!

---

I think you're another of the mods' comedy sockpuppets, and you should kindly leave the stage.

---

To be fair, even the sockpuppets usually make more sense

--------------------
MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

After all the above, I decided to educate myself, and cover Depeche Mode's Any Second Now from the album Speak And Spell (1981).

All parts courtesy of the Moog Little Phatty - including the drums. I did run an external white noise source into the audio input for the downward swoop, but otherwise it's purely Phatty.

Reverb is Lexicon MPX1, EQ and mixing on the A&H Zed R16 firewire mixer/interface, panning and volume automation, and a touch of light compression, in Logic.

Enjoy.

http://soundcloud.com/njramsden/dm-any2nd-cover-demo-mix

Here's the original for reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RyjTsdu75o

Needless to say, I did this for fun, not gain. If you like the piece, buy the original album. It sill stands up today, mostly, I think - some parts have dated better than others, but it's a great album for that stripped-back kind of electro-pop that many recent bands just don't do so well.

That's a great job! Bloomin' well done, man!

--------------------
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

That's great man! Really well done.

The Phatty is sounding really nice and snappy there

Wow!.. seriously impressed man!.. good programming skills to get all that from an LP




--------------------
MBP 17", PC 100(Nubus Protools) Motu 896, X-Station, Logic9, Reason6, Korg legacy, ACE, Alchemy, Emax II, E-Synth, Evolver MEK, Waldorf Pulse and Blofeld, AS Telemark, AS Leipzig-S

Good stuff!

--------------------
Jonny

Thanks chaps! Some of it works better than other bits, and I struggled to get the bell-like patch at the end, but I think I got about as close as I could with the Phatty. Working with just one synth like that makes one appreciate how it must have been to write whole albums... easy to take a lot of stuff for granted now, I think.