Quote turbodave:

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Good god! I post here as much as the next man so can be accused of not having a life...but really....this is a source of info and sharing experiences NOT the United Nations.Give this time folks! Dave

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Yes!!

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madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt

I'm quiting. Seriously, I came for the mics, diy and linux sections and now I have to wade to loads of stuff that doesn't really interest me instead of getting it clearly separated. Sorry but I don't have time for that. Together with the backward fixed width layout (using 1920x1200) there just isn't anything left.

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Expert in non-working solutions

Quote Havoc:

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I'm quiting. Seriously, I came for the mics, diy and linux sections and now I have to wade to loads of stuff that doesn't really interest me instead of getting it clearly separated. Sorry but I don't have time for that. Together with the backward fixed width layout (using 1920x1200) there just isn't anything left.

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'Bye then. We didn't know you were here, we won't notice you've gone. Have a nice rest of your life.

Quote Havoc:

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I'm quiting. Seriously, I came for the mics, diy and linux sections and now I have to wade to loads of stuff that doesn't really interest me instead of getting it clearly separated. Sorry but I don't have time for that. Together with the backward fixed width layout (using 1920x1200) there just isn't anything left.

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Hey Havoc,

I too am not a fan of the fixed-width layout, it wastes so much of the expensive screen acreage I and practically everybody else has paid for for the purposes of using a DAW. Also I'm a little piqued at the aggregation of some of the specialist fora into more general topics, but I doubt everything is set in stone and these things always have teething problems.

Give it a bit of time, p-p-please!

Reg

Paid for screen acreage? What is this, 19th century land reform?

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madtheory creations
Synths and pianos for Kontakt

Quote Tomás Mulcahy:

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Paid for screen acreage? What is this, 19th century land reform?

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Yes

Quote RegressiveRock:

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I too am not a fan of the fixed-width layout, it wastes so much of the expensive screen acreage I and practically everybody else has paid for for the purposes of using a DAW.

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Put a long text document up on screen - an ebook perhaps. Do you find it easy to read stretched across the full width of one of today's wide-format screens?

If you look around the internet you'll actually find very few liquid web designs now.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote RegressiveRock:

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I too am not a fan of the fixed-width layout, it wastes so much of the expensive screen acreage I and practically everybody else has paid for for the purposes of using a DAW.

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Put a long text document up on screen - an ebook perhaps. Do you find it easy to read stretched across the full width of one of today's wide-format screens?

If you look around the internet you'll actually find very few liquid web designs now.

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I'm ancient and hence used to reading scrolls anyway.

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote Havoc:

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I'm quiting. Seriously, I came for the mics, diy and linux sections and now I have to wade to loads of stuff that doesn't really interest me instead of getting it clearly separated. Sorry but I don't have time for that. Together with the backward fixed width layout (using 1920x1200) there just isn't anything left.

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'Bye then. We didn't know you were here, we won't notice you've gone. Have a nice rest of your life.

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I knew Havoc was here. It's a familiar username to me

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

I am back!

Oh! No one noticed me gone? Ah well *I* feel better! A poll?
Good idea even tho' I am generally against such things it might show the strength of feeling but then you would have to be DD&B not to see there is a 90% + feeling against the changes.

Havoc. We have co-posted I think? Same for E.W. stop it! I thought you a better man! ( see *&^%y Piublishers! The rot and aggro has started.)

Change: Yes it has to happen, and spare us the cod philosphy whoever it was, can't remember (pillock). But not for change sake and certainly no changes imposed from above without consultation and without some one being accountable.

Mike Stranks and the others that have laid down.
It is OUR forum! WE pay for it just a surely as we pay for a packet of Daz and the advertizing behind it all. In any event by sheer majority WE outnumber "THEM" (Publishers please note: YOU have created for the first time, in my mind at least, an Us and Them situation at SoS. It will emerge in the coming weeks who were for and who were against the decimation)

But yes, Props to Jennifer. She must be feeling a much put upon lady right now!

"Just a forum"? Well ok bugger off then. I shall stay and try to get things reversed. In any case The Powers That Be are well versed. They know they can impose radical changes and the plebs will moan and groan but put up with it and then quietly get in line. But IF we make enough noise THIS time for long enough it MIGHT not change minds but it might cause a pause and stop more cuts (for that is what they are, can't see anything has got better and silly things like auto email on update have not been fixed)further down the line.

"Not a fix to a problem"? Well there always were "problems" with the SoS forum, it was like no other and I and many others have asked why over the years. The reply was always "Yes we know but it is a big task to fix but it shall be done one day" Well "something" has been "fixed" but not any of the issues I remember raising?

And I have still not had even an attempt to answer why "mics and pres" get absorbed but not guitars and amps, are the latter NOT part of recording technology?

Very fed up then and I strongly suspect many "at the office" feel the same but cannot say so.

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Good sentiments Dave.

A few people have talked about quiting, I'd like to suggest that's pointless.

Better to work together to build a better forum.

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and I don't think the changes are any cheaper to run. Possibly there's an attempt to make the site more accessible to newcomers, which could be seen to be market driven, but could also seen to be dumbing down what was a very good forum.

I believe there's been a miscalculation, which is what happens when you make changes without consulting your constituency.

I've made suggestions earlier in the thread that would overcome the quoted problems with the old forum, I don't design forums, so they could be nonsense.

I'd like to suggest to Jennifer and the mods that, regardless of outcome, it would be useful to commence a survey of what subscribers would like to see (it's called market research). Following which they could stick with the current forum, revert to the old or come up with something even better! At least it would show good faith.

A good starting point would be to determine what these forums are actually for, who they serve and where, in the greater scheme of things they lie, e.g. where do we sit relative to g'slutz?

I personally would like to see a range of 'boutique' forums, similar to 'Mics and miking Technique' where people with common specialist interests can discuss issues.

Ownership is an interesting question..................

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

Sorry but it just isn't worth it anymore. What used to take 2 minutes to check if something interesting was happening would now take at least 15 minutes. Problem is that people just don't put sensible titles on their post. So what will you get now? Ten posts tittled "help"? Having to wade through 100 new posts every day to find those 3 going about diy? I'll go to more dedicated forums where the signal to noise ratio is better.

Quote:

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A few people have talked about quiting, I'd like to suggest that's pointless.

Better to work together to build a better forum.

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and I don't think the changes are any cheaper to run. Possibly there's an attempt to make the site more accessible to newcomers, which could be seen to be market driven, but could also seen to be dumbing down what was a very good forum.

I believe there's been a miscalculation, which is what happens when you make changes without consulting your constituency.

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Well it isn't. Honestly, Dave may be talking as much as he likes about "it is our forum" but it isn't. For SOS the forum is a cost center like any other. What is happening is "integration with the CMS". And that is Adobe based and probably used by mac users. Ever seen the Adobe forums? And they want to pamper the ipad users to look "cool". So easier to use for those with a small screen and no keyboard or mouse.

You want your forum? Fork it. Be better and the most dedicated users will follow. So yes, you can build a better forum or at least spend your time elsewhere were it will be better appreciated.

But we seem to be stuck in Hotel California here.

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Expert in non-working solutions

Edited by Havoc (18/07/11 08:04 AM)

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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A few people have talked about quiting, I'd like to suggest that's pointless.

Better to work together to build a better forum.

Bob

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Hi Bob

It seems one cannot quit as I've tried every way and have sent two emails but I'm still here!!

But I will stop being involved from now on.

Thanks by the way for all your excellent advice and support over the years, and your standing up for the excellent old forum and for critising this unfortunate disaster!

I really miss the specialty forums!
Mike Senior's new Mix forum - that was pure gold.

They were effectively the expert forums, a valuable asset of high-quality advise and opinions. I can't believe the SOS forum admins don't recognize the way this forum merge is devaluing this knowledge base.

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All the best,
Knut Skaarberg

Quote Knut Skaarberg:

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I really miss the specialty forums!
Mike Senior's new Mix forum - that was pure gold.

They were effectively the expert forums, a valuable asset of high-quality advise and opinions. I can't believe the SOS forum admins don't recognize the way this forum merge is devaluing this knowledge base.

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I think some of them do Knut but either don't or "can't" care.

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Quote Havoc:

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And that is Adobe based and probably used by mac users. Ever seen the Adobe forums? And they want to pamper the ipad users to look "cool". So easier to use for those with a small screen and no keyboard or mouse.

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How it looks is quite secondary to content IMO. (Actually it looks as garish on my iPad as on my Mac, but that's beside the point.)

Let's hope we'll see some sense from SOS over the coming days........

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz

I know that Jennifer has asked us to give the new structure some time, but I have to report that so far I’m finding it unwieldy.

Even using the ‘View Latest Topics’ is now devalued, since I’m getting too much noise to wade through. Sure, people could help with better subject lines, but when I could scan over to the forum topic I had a clue as to whether I was interested.

What problems did having sub-forums, such as those for vintage gear, mastering and microphones cause that required fixing?

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

I just wanted to add my voice of dissent to this. I don't post that often but I am an avid follower of the SOS forums. I jump from forum to forum but I was mainly interested in the Music Tech forum. I think the massive number of threads (47,000 odd) in Recording & Production kind of speaks for itself. There should be more granularity.

If you try to put too many disparate topics into one forum for the purpose of generalising information and expanding forum readership you'll drive away the specialists and professionals, dumbing down the forum into more of a morning TV magazine style thing. Are you actively trying to accelerate the decay of music production standards?

Information delivery on the Net is now about more specialisation and speed of delivery. You've actually made it slower for us to get to what we actually want to know. Google is spending billions on technology research to develop ways to target users more precisely while you seem to have done the opposite.

The colours aren't very nice either. Garish and distracting; why black on white for pete's sake? That's a basic schoolboy error, didn't you get any advice from a web designer?

Stratt (Otherwise known as the IT Manager at Royal & Derngate, Northampton)

Edited by Stratt (18/07/11 11:14 AM)

Quote Stratt:

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The colours aren't very nice either. Garish and distracting; why black on white for pete's sake? That's a basic schoolboy error, didn't you get any advice from a web designer?

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i get lilac and purple on white here. it's a little garish but not as bad as black on white!

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

I have no problem with how the forum looks. It all seems very sharp and clean.

But I had no problem with how it looked before either, so I don't know how much my opinion counts on that score!

My cursor still drops to the bottom of a post when I add a smilie, or a URL though (I use Firefox) - that is soooooooooo annoying!

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Quote Stratt:

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I just wanted to add my voice of dissent to this. I don't post that often but I am an avid follower of the SOS forums. I jump from forum to forum but I was mainly interested in the Music Tech forum. I think the massive number of threads (47,000 odd) in Recording & Production kind of speaks for itself. There should be more granularity.

If you try to put too many disparate topics into one forum for the purpose of generalising information and expanding forum readership you'll drive away the specialists and professionals, dumbing down the forum into more of a morning TV magazine style thing. Are you actively trying to accelerate the decay of music production standards?

Information delivery on the Net is now about more specialisation and speed of delivery. You've actually made it slower for us to get to what we actually want to know. Google is spending billions on technology research to develop ways to target users more precisely while you seem to have done the opposite.

The colours aren't very nice either. Garish and distracting; why black on white for pete's sake? That's a basic schoolboy error, didn't you get any advice from a web designer?

Stratt (Otherwise known as the IT Manager at Royal & Derngate, Northampton)

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Well! I do not know the gentleman but I consider myself in really good company now!

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

I have no problem with the changes in regard to appearance .
Functionality ... well you normally get used to any forums quirks after a while .

I have stated elsewhere and will state again here ...
IMHO the merging ( disappearance )of the more specialist forums is a mistake and will only serve to harm the forum in the long run .

Also , having mods post things like "this is not a democracy" is a really bad move .
I am pretty sure that the members aren't that fond of being "spoken" down to .

SOS has always had a "sensible" crowd that sets it apart from every other audio forum , please try to keep it this way , don't make the mistakes others have .

I made a post on thie thread yesterday that has disappeared? Teething issue?

Anyway in a nutshell some forums have a sub category you can select from drop down menu when you post... i.e. guitars, sequencing, mastering etc.

Is there no way to implement a "show only" button for brownsing forum members so they can discretely view if many topics are to reside in one forum?

SafeandSound Mastering

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Mastering online mastering

I'm a long time reader, occasional poster, and magazine subscriber, here's my take on what's changed....

Consolidation - I can see why those who liked the specialty forums are annoyed, personally it does not affect me greatly, as long as the search engine is reliable. Easier to moderate, harder for those looking for specifics however - a step backwards from the customer's perspective. Sure, we are not all necessarily subscribers, but its going to have some kind of impact ultimately.

Colour - definitely a bad choice IMHO, in the time its taken me to read this entire thread, I have found the lavender look quite hard on the eyes, and distracting. I really hope you change this to a muted earth tone of some sort. The forum now looks like a Kleenex box!

Perhaps allowing user selectable themes would be an idea, like in phpBB.

Regardless, thanks for continuing this great forum.

Cheers - Robin

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Robin
NorthWood MediaWorks - Visit the Forest

Edited by NorthWood MediaWorks (18/07/11 03:35 PM)

Heh!
"BroWnsing forum members was a most unfortunate typo Safe, especially since folks seem to be "taking sides" just a little now!

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Hi Robin.
Hey! I keep meaning to ask. What are peeps banging on about re colour and format?

"My" forum is the same colours it was last week (purty sure) and it still fills 75% of the screen width.
I am on IE8 and XP Home.

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Quote ef37a:

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Hi Robin.
Hey! I keep meaning to ask. What are peeps banging on about re colour and format?

"My" forum is the same colours it was last week (purty sure) and it still fills 75% of the screen width.
I am on IE8 and XP Home.

Dave.

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Yes, the width doesn't seem to have changed. But I think it's a fixed number of pixels that happens to be 75% of YOUR screen.

The colours ARE odd. On this W7-64 laptop they started a rather nasty pink, then changed to blue. On the W7-32 desktop machine they're still the old neutral colours. Anyone know why?

It's a caching issue. If you clear out your cache/history etc. completely you should find they are all lilac.

We've had a lot of negative feedback about the lilac colours, however, so we are thinking of changing the colour scheme tomorrow to a more neutral pallet.

Still no grey though :P

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SOS Web Editor, Support & Social Media
Friend SOS on Facebook | Follow SOS on Twitter

Nope, just the Same on my W7/64.

Still COLOUR won't bother me 1/100th as much as the Big Crunch!

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Seems odd that relatively recent innovations have disappeared too. Newbies was a great idea and would have been really useful when I first started posting 5 years or so ago. Made a fool of myself a few times (still do, occasionally) and I'd have felt happier about doing so in a Newbies forum.

CC

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Put the fun back into dysfunctional.
Mr Punch's Studio

Quote Jennifer Jones:

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... We've had a lot of negative feedback about the lilac colours, however, so we are thinking of changing the colour scheme tomorrow to a more neutral pallet.

Still no grey though :P

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Thanks Jennifer... Sounds great! Something that will subtly match the log and nav-bar.... best wishes. My old eyes will thank you.

Quote ef37a:

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Hi Robin.
Hey! I keep meaning to ask. What are peeps banging on about re colour and format?

"My" forum is the same colours it was last week (purty sure) and it still fills 75% of the screen width.
I am on IE8 and XP Home.

Dave.

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As Jennifer pointed out, you need to clear your cache(s). Handy tool for this, freeware, if you use a lot of different browsers, is Ccleaner.

Quote ConcertinaChap:

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Seems odd that relatively recent innovations have disappeared too. Newbies was a great idea and would have been really useful when I first started posting 5 years or so ago. Made a fool of myself a few times (still do, occasionally) and I'd have felt happier about doing so in a Newbies forum.

CC

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I think we have all done that CC! Apart of course from the polymaths like Hugh and Dan.

MOST forums have noob section I think?

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

the colours appear to render rather differently on different browsers. on IE8 at work (about two hours ago) i was seeing lilac and purple and then on IE9 at home now i'm seeing mid and light blue.

unless that palette swap has happened already?

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hourglass | random thoughts | doubledotdash!? collective

Quote SafeandSound123:

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I made a post on thie thread yesterday that has disappeared? Teething issue?

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If you search through your own posts, you'll notice your post is still there.
You did however, post the reply in entirely the wrong thread.

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Paul

Quote Jennifer Jones:

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We've had a lot of negative feedback about the lilac colours, however, so we are thinking of changing the colour scheme tomorrow to a more neutral pallet.

Still no grey though :P

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Good. I actually like new-agey colour schemes (you should see my Logic template ), but currently it's a bit, er, much.

Hurray for no grey!

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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I personally would like to see a range of 'boutique' forums, similar to 'Mics and miking Technique' where people with common specialist interests can discuss issues.

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Agreed. Anything that helps with keeping information organized and easily accessible.

Quote Bob Bickerton:

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Ownership is an interesting question..................

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Are you referring to us posters? Surely, we don't own anything around here..?

"Are you referring to us posters? Surely, we don't own anything around here..?"

Well I meant "ours" in the sense of our BBC or our NHS, things people tamper with at their peril (I am sure "Davids' ear is wet with folks wispering "Leave it Dave. FFS leave it!)

I have taken Tape Recorder, Studio Sound etc. and "know" PW from Guitarist days so the SoS forum is "mine" like none other.

Dave.

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#They did not listen, they are not listening still...Perhaps they never will?#

Quote SafeandSound123:

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I made a post on thie thread yesterday that has disappeared? Teething issue?

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Or perhaps you mislaid it here.

Andy

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When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.

Quote Tui:

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Quote Bob Bickerton:

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Ownership is an interesting question..................

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Are you referring to us posters? Surely, we don't own anything around here..?

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Technically no, but morally yes. This is a community. If we all buggered off there would be no forum.

Again I call for a survey of subscribers.

Bob

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www.bickerton.co.nz