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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Mobile sound proofing
      #960937 - 28/12/11 07:55 PM
For the last several years I have been renting places to live in. I end up with the room my missus, dislikes the most, to record in. She has an uncanny ability to choose the best sounding room, as her space and the worst possible sounding room for my recording.

However im no sooner settled when the landlord decides to sell, which means moving on, this has happened several times now. This results in me never being anywhere long enough to concentrate on improving the sound of the room, other than to hang duvets.

I have read quite a few of Paul Whites very good articles on improving a room sound and they have given me plenty to think about. I just wondered what would be your suggestions for something portable that I can take with me wherever I go. My thinking is perhaps free standing panels that could be stood next to each other to create a 3 sided enclosure, or maybe a 3 sided frame, from which I can hang duvets, again something that can be packed down and put away without too much grief. The main issue is to just lose the nasty reflections these rooms seem to have, So I can record some vocals and guitar.

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pano



Joined: 03/12/06
Posts: 10
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #960942 - 28/12/11 08:13 PM
I think it's a common problem, but lots of options:

You could make a set of absorption panels - the insulation block type - and hang some on the walls (get your wife to choose the fabric!), with others as movable floor panels so you can place them according to whether you're mixing or recording.

I've also got a large oriental style screen that can either be flat or folded into a corner shape. A couple of heavy duvets thrown over it is great for vocs and guitar. And when not in use it can look quite erm...domestic.


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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #960943 - 28/12/11 09:13 PM
I've been on the lookout for one of those screens for ages.

Just reading on here that getting two lighting stands and hanging a duvet across can be ok. As cost is an issue for me this might be a temp way around the prob ? Although I don't quite get how you can hang a duvet like this without it flopping in the middle, surely you need a rail of some kind to link them ?

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994914 - 26/06/12 10:31 PM
Still haven't got around to this ! What would be the most cost effective acoustic foam to use as I've seen a few different types ? Was considering making 3 panels 6ft x 3ft so they form an enclosure of sorts. It's solely for recording guitar and vocals. If anyone has any ideas on construction would appreciate hearing.

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Mike Stranks
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994916 - 26/06/12 10:40 PM
If you're building yourself, you'll be much better using Rockwool RW3 rather than acoustic foam.

Build your enclosures as you intend, but use rockwool kept in place with chicken wire. You can cover the whole with Cara fabric - various colours available. The enclosures will work better if you leave an air gap behind the rockwool - eg enclosures 8" deep with the front 4" of rockwool and the rest an airspace.

You can buy Rockwool at various builders merchants and also from Studiospares if you find it hard to source. But Studiospares will probably be more expensive.

HTH.


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zenguitarAdministrator
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994919 - 26/06/12 11:49 PM
And to sort out the wife...

The first time you visit the new home IMMEDIATELY find the worst sounding room and say in a loud voice 'THIS would be a perfect music room, it has great light and a great feel.' Then wait for her to decide it's hers and you can get a decent room

Oh, and +1 for making frames with rockwool, they will be easy to take with you when you have to move again.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.


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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994948 - 27/06/12 08:32 AM
Thanks for replies..

Mike why is Rockwool a better option, sorry I dont know much about these things ?

Any ideas how you would go about making the panels, with the gap you describe etc..

Thanks again

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994949 - 27/06/12 08:34 AM
I know it was an older part of this thread, but a good way of hanging a duvet is with a clothing rail. They are about £10 to £15.

But I would recommend building some rockwool traps with a means of hanging them, so that you can take them to the next place, if and when you move.

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994967 - 27/06/12 10:44 AM
Originally I thought I could just attach 3 pieces of wood to the ceiling, forming a box shape, without one side and then attach hooks, from which the duvet could hang. However to my dismay the ceiling is very ancient and seems to be made up of sheets of wood about 5mm thick with some very old plaster chucked on top. This was the way I was hoping to go but I just don't see that it's possible. This is why I have moved onto the panel idea, it is a last resort as I'm not very confident of my woodworking skills.

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994976 - 27/06/12 11:32 AM
When I built my bass traps, I sourced the wood from a local wood recycling centre. They cut and mitred the pieces and drilled the sides allowing me to cut out sections. I then glued and bracketed the the wood together, dried, filled with RW3, put chicken wire over them and covered in a cheap poly-cotton fabric.

I'm no DIYer really, I had to buy a jigsaw to cut the sides and a staple gun (which kills your hand after a while!). I used Zukan's link for the build guidlines, but amended some of the dimensions to suit RW3.

You could consider having feet/stands on them so that they are free standing rather than fixed to the walls.

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994979 - 27/06/12 12:00 PM
Yeh they would have to be free standing. I have been searching the web for some pics, as I would find it much easier to make them if I had some images.

--------------------

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994980 - 27/06/12 12:05 PM
http://www.samplecraze.com/tutorial.php/28/diy-acoustics-–-the-home-stud io-part-1/

This is the link to Zukan's build.

In asnwer to your earlier question about why to use Rockwool, Rockwool has a good broadband absorbtion plus it doesn't degrade like foam does.

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #994998 - 27/06/12 01:40 PM
I'm not sure if my DIY skills are up to the standard of zukans! Or my tool collection! The ceiling option would have been a lot easier and cheaper, well at least I have some pictures now of how these panels can be made..

So will the rockwool absorb/deaden the sound as good as the foam ? Im presuming if I managed to rig some of these panels up, they would do a better job than the duvets ? Or else it might be easier/cheaper to make a frame to hang the duvets over.. Sorry to keep on about this

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djangodeadman
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Joined: 18/02/03
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995011 - 27/06/12 02:16 PM
Quote Scouser:

I'm not sure if my DIY skills are up to the standard of zukans! Or my tool collection! The ceiling option would have been a lot easier and cheaper, well at least I have some pictures now of how these panels can be made..




I have no DIY skills, but a few tools. I managed to make four rockwool panels fairly successfully.

Quote Scouser:

So will the rockwool absorb/deaden the sound as good as the foam ?




Better.


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4403
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995013 - 27/06/12 02:20 PM
Rockwool will go to lower frequencies than foam, as well as those that foam copes with to some extent.

See if you have a local wood recyclers or ask around friends to see if they are handy with a saw.

--------------------
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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995518 - 30/06/12 02:50 PM
Most of the articles ive read so far, seem to build the frame around the dimensions of the rockwool slabs, as my panels need to be bigger than the sheets, what would be the best approach ?

--------------------

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Martin WalkerModerator
Watcher Of The Skies


Joined: 28/02/01
Posts: 17585
Loc: Cornwall, UK
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995577 - 30/06/12 10:24 PM
Hi Scouser!

Well to me one obvious solution is to build the frames at the size you need/want, and then use fairly dense rockwool that you can cut and fit into these shapes without the joins being too obvious – once covered with acoustic (breathable) fabric you probably won't even be able to tell that there are multiple 'blocks' in there

Hope this helps!


Martin

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YewTreeMagic


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995614 - 01/07/12 10:40 AM
I made mine so that the internal dimensions of the frame were the same as a Rockwool slab, so 120 x 60mm. The outside dimensions are obviously slightly larger due to the thickness of the wood so make sure you have enough length cut. The Rockwool fit snugly inside and then the chicken wire stops it from slumping.

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995668 - 01/07/12 09:01 PM
Is the chicken wire necessary for the more rigid types of rockwool ?

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Chump
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Joined: 24/09/02
Posts: 35
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995679 - 01/07/12 09:59 PM
Hi,

Just thought I'd share my recent experience of making some acoustics panels. My DIY skills / equipment / patience are severely limited, but I managed it, without even having to cut any wood!!

1. Went to large B&Q store with in-store wood cutting facility. Bought 3 boards of MDF (L)1220 x (W)607 x (T)12mm (£12.48 each). Got them to cut two sheets into 12 1220mm X 100mm sheets. Got them to cut the other sheet into 12 600mm x 100mm sheets. This is enough to make the frames for 6 1200mm x 600mm x 100mm panels. Also bought 24 right angled metal brackets, some wood screws and some cheap fabric.

2. Bought enough Rockwool RWA45 in 1200mm x 600mm panels to fill the panels (either using 100mm thick panels or 2 x 50mm panels). After seeing a recommendation on these forums, Minster seemed to have a pretty good price.

http://www.minsteronline.co.uk/product/slab-rwa45

3. Borrowed an electric drill and followed the guide at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDxV0jbD9w8. Took about 40 mins per panel (and I'm basically incompentent).

They work a treat!


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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995724 - 02/07/12 11:08 AM
Chump, sounds good. What did you use the mdf for as i didn't see that it was used in the video ?

--------------------

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4403
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995728 - 02/07/12 11:38 AM
Quote Scouser:

Is the chicken wire necessary for the more rigid types of rockwool ?




I'm sure you could get away without using it, provided the fabric is taught.

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995912 - 03/07/12 10:53 AM
Im glad im taking my time with this, thanks for all the help so far..

My original thought was to build panels without a gap and just have them freestanding, however the more I think about this the more im coming round to having a gap so they can have the dual purpose of being freestanding or hung on the wall.

So essentially a 2 inch thick panel with a 2 inch gap, this would make the panel more expensive/difficult to make, as im presuming it would then need to have a sheet of something the same size of the panel which would need to be fixed in the frame ? Some feedback on this would be great. My thinking is that i would need to route a channel into the frame at a depth of 2 inches. If there is an easier way I would be interested to know about it.

Thanks

--------------------

www.myspace.com/joekmurphy


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
Posts: 4403
Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995918 - 03/07/12 11:22 AM
You could use some thin batons attached to some small blocks attached to the frame to hold the rockwool in the frame before the gap.

--------------------
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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995961 - 03/07/12 02:00 PM
Thanks Richie, batons could be a way to go. Dont exactly want to make a bigger job of it, but having a gap will mean more work/cost I dont see any way around it..

Wonder what GIK have used in this picture:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/room-acoustics-system-layout-setup/77 642-few-questions-regarding-acoustic-panels.html

Wanted to avoid routing if possible, but as I only wnat to do this once, I want to get it right

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995964 - 03/07/12 02:25 PM
I used a jigsaw rather than router, but I had the luxury of having some holes pre-drilled.

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995967 - 03/07/12 02:41 PM
Not sure if we are talking at cross purposes Ritchie, I meant to use a router to cut a channel 2" all the way around the inside of the frame, to house a board of some sort. Don't see how that could be done with a jigsaw ?

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Richie Royale



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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995974 - 03/07/12 03:56 PM
Right, yes we were at cross porpoises.

I made mine to fit the rockwool and have them stood away from the wall, so I'm only making guesses about the inclusion of a gap.

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zenguitarAdministrator
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995978 - 03/07/12 04:20 PM
Battens would do it, but I would suggest the easiest and most effective way would be another piece of chicken wire on the back stapled/pinned to the inside of the frame.

Andy

--------------------
When the going gets weird, the Weird turn Pro.


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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995992 - 03/07/12 06:37 PM
Sounds like a plan Andy, maybe if there was a thin baton all the way around the inside of the frame at a 2" depth, as well as adding a bit of strength, would also give me something to staple the chicken wire to..

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995993 - 03/07/12 06:39 PM
It is very tempting to avoid any extra work and do them without a gap Ritchie.. ( I'm such a ditherer ) I will get there... eventually !

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995996 - 03/07/12 07:05 PM
As i'm based on the Isle Of Wight i am quite limited for supplies. Got a quote today, wanted to know if it sounds about right price wise, also not sure they have got the coverage right ?

RW45

2" cov 6.48 price £22.30
3" cov 4.32 price £22.39

What I thought was called RW60 matey tells me is RW3 is that correct ?

2" cov 5.76 price 25.40
3" cov 4.32 price 28.42

As I haven't got a clue just wanted to check before I order

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shufflebeat



Joined: 09/12/07
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Loc: Manchester, UK
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #995997 - 03/07/12 07:14 PM
Re duvets:

Depending on the height of your singer - a boom mic stand in a T shape

Or

Sticky out curtain rails (eyelet holes in the curtain type - spouses (spice?) seem to approve) and some plastic spring clamps from the £ shop. It may be a good time to consider blackout curtains with a bit of extra mass. A duvet clamped and hanging in front of them does a good job.

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Onward and outward


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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #996082 - 04/07/12 09:32 AM
I got the RW3 1200x600x50mm packs of 8. They cost approx £25 each from a trade supplier who also deal with the public.

http://www.condell-ltd.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=16768 These are probably the cheapest online, but as your are on IoW delivery may be an additional cost and you may be better off with a local supplier. Their delivery details are here http://www.condell-ltd.com/Page.aspx?catid=168 so they may still be worth calling.

I think I paid about £15 for delivery of 3 packs from my local store (Kellaway).

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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #996455 - 06/07/12 09:02 AM
Couple more questions,

As the panels i've ordered are 4'x2' is the RW3 ok to cut as I want to make them 6'x2' ? I'm presuming thats ok, but as i have never seen these panels I dont have a clue. As the whole point of making this is so it can provide me with a space, both to rec guitar (sat down) and vox (standing up) or would it be better to make enclosure based around the rockwool dim 4'x 2' for guitar and get a reflection filter, SE or the like for the vox ?

Also would it be wise to raise the panels off the ground a little using stands for them, or would it be best to have them on the floor.

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Richie Royale



Joined: 12/09/06
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Loc: Bristol, England.
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #996468 - 06/07/12 09:39 AM
I would recomend getting some good builders/gardening gloves, you don't want to handle rockwool without gloves.

I used a normal saw to cut up the rockwool and for extra precaution used a mask and goggles. Make sure you do it outside and, I chose to use a sheet so that I could clear it up easier.

Rockwool is firm, but it is essentially compacted fibres, so it crumbles when cut and is an irritant, so keep it off your skin and away from pets etc.

Not sure what to recommend on height, but I think most 'gobos' are usually raised slightly, because they are on castors, but I think you would be fine with floor standing, for your own use.

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James PerrettModerator



Joined: 10/09/01
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #996602 - 07/07/12 10:43 AM
I've found a breadknife or serrated kitchen knife (doesn't have to be a posh one) to be useful for cutting rockwool. I used a disposable paper mask and welding gloves when handling it.

James.

--------------------
JRP Music - Audio Mastering and Restoration.
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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #996725 - 08/07/12 09:34 AM
Can the panels be covered with any material, or does it have to be a certain type of covering ?

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Mike Stranks
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Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #996755 - 08/07/12 03:58 PM
This is the 'recommended' solution:

Cara Fabric

But I know that many people use cotton dust-sheet type material without issues. Key thing is that it's acoustically transparent and that any colouring/patterning process hasn't made it at least partially reflective.


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Scouser



Joined: 04/10/04
Posts: 577
Re: Mobile sound proofing new [Re: Scouser]
      #996774 - 08/07/12 06:25 PM
Just wondered if ordinary muslin would do it ? Although im not sure if its much cheaper than the cara.

Is the difference between materials negligible ?

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