A couple of years ago I came on this forum and asked if buying a Dell for music would be a good idea - the general consensus was no. Because I was skint at the time I extremley foolishly went for it.

A couple of years later I've had problems with loads of programs ranging from DAWs (Cubase/ Reaper) through to drums (Battery 3/ Superior Drummer 2.0) through to synths like Alchemy.

It's been rubbish especially since now I can afford stuff and everything else I have (guitars/ plugins/ bass/ pedals) are good quality and the damn PC is shafting me!!!

I think you should do a sticky because I know people are going to come on here and probably say their Dell's been rock solid but honestly - save up a bit more and get a proper PC for your tunes.

Quote Imran500:

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A couple of years ago I came on this forum and asked if buying a Dell for music would be a good idea - the general consensus was no. Because I was skint at the time I extremley foolishly went for it.

A couple of years later I've had problems with loads of programs ranging from DAWs (Cubase/ Reaper) through to drums (Battery 3/ Superior Drummer 2.0) through to synths like Alchemy.

It's been rubbish especially since now I can afford stuff and everything else I have (guitars/ plugins/ bass/ pedals) are good quality and the damn PC is shafting me!!!

I think you should do a sticky because I know people are going to come on here and probably say their Dell's been rock solid but honestly - save up a bit more and get a proper PC for your tunes.

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What model did you get? The cheaper Dell desktop models can indeed cut rather too many corners, and I'd hesitate to recommend a budget laptop of ANY brand as the basis of a DAW!

Inspiron 530 - Quadcore (2.6ghz) + 2GB RAM. Powerwise it's great I can run so many plugins but reliability is terrible. I literally have to save Reaper every 5 minutes because it could crash at any time.

I'll get a new PC next month so it's not the end of the world - at least with Windows 7 and all the extra RAM I'll be able to buy Omnisphere and run Superior Drummer + Battery 3 together - every cloud and all that

Quote Imran500:

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I think you should do a sticky because I know people are going to come on here and probably say their Dell's been rock solid

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I used both a Dell Dimension & an XPS for Cubase for many years with total reliability. Actually both are still perfectly sevicable & the XPS still sees daily use (although not be me). Do I prefer my Carillon? Too right, but simply because I no longer have to worry about background noise or pre-installed software I don't need. I don't think there's anything unique about Dell though, any mainstream PC manufacturer is going to cater primarily for the business/games markets.

I'm sorry you've struggled, but I hardly think one persons bad experience with one model merits a sticky thread. I had a pre-CBS strat which sounded crap & played like a dog, but thankfully it's never put me off buying another Fender.

Good luck with whatever replacement PC you choose. Personally I think W7 is awesome.

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Not much in life worth running for. Or from.

I think it's rather an over-reaction to tar all Dell PCs with the same brush. I too have had Dell PCs over the years, one of which formed the basis of my travelling audio rig for several years, and each performed perfectly well.

There are many considerations to be made when buying a PC to use for audio, but the name badge is not really up there with the most important of them.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

The problem is that most PCs are not build for audio / video.
They a built to a price, aimed at very basic use, be in in an office or domestic web use.
Basically they are cheap because they use older, slower tech.

If you want a machine to "rock the world", you have to realistic about your requirements.
A £300 laptop is not going to cut it.
Companies like Sony and Apple only use the latest ( and fastest ) tech & so offer outstanding performance, but at a price.
Their machines tend to be 3 or 4 times a budget PC.

You pays your money, you takes your choice.....

Personally I buy a 2 year old "top of the (then) range", over a brand new budget machine, every time!

Quote Scope:

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If you want a machine to "rock the world", you have to realistic about your requirements.
A £300 laptop is not going to cut it.
Companies like Sony and Apple only use the latest ( and fastest ) tech & so offer outstanding performance, but at a price.
Their machines tend to be 3 or 4 times a budget PC.

---

You've quoted two brands that prioritise style almost as highly as performance!

I use a Dell XPS live and it has been very reliable. I do need to turn wireless off however otherwise I get clicks and pops etc. When playing I don't need wireless so it doesn't matter.

I use Cantabile 32 bit as the host running many NI products as well as Alchemy and Atmosphere. I have just popped 8gb in so will start using the 64 bit host.

Can anyone simply recommend the most reliable motherboard/ hard disk/ power supply etc. combo - I'm not taking any chances whatsoever this time.

I kinda expected people to come on here and defend Dells which is fair enough - still generally speaking if people are thinking about audio applications I would steer clear just in case.

Quote Imran500:

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Can anyone simply recommend the most reliable motherboard/ hard disk/ power supply etc. combo - I'm not taking any chances whatsoever this time.

I kinda expected people to come on here and defend Dells which is fair enough - still generally speaking if people are thinking about audio applications I would steer clear just in case.

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I think theres a lot more to it that recommending a motherboard / hard disk etc... Theres a lot more to a build than just these things. The hard disk is really one of the least important things, along as you don't get a slow RPM (aim 7200-7600 at least).

Think of the important things first, processor, memory and sound card are probably your most important things to think about for power, then some kind of suitable sound proofing case would be good. You can find power supply etc to work around the important components.

Quote Clarky:

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Quote Imran500:

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Can anyone simply recommend the most reliable motherboard/ hard disk/ power supply etc. combo - I'm not taking any chances whatsoever this time.

I kinda expected people to come on here and defend Dells which is fair enough - still generally speaking if people are thinking about audio applications I would steer clear just in case.

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I think theres a lot more to it that recommending a motherboard / hard disk etc... Theres a lot more to a build than just these things. The hard disk is really one of the least important things, along as you don't get a slow RPM (aim 7200-7600 at least).

Think of the important things first, processor, memory and sound card are probably your most important things to think about for power, then some kind of suitable sound proofing case would be good. You can find power supply etc to work around the important components.

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Is the sound card that important if using a USB interface which has outs?

I've been checking out PC specialist and came up with this :

Processor (CPU)

Intel® Core™i5-2400S Quad Core (2.5GHz, 6MB Cache)

Motherboard
ASUS® P8H61-I: Mini-ITX, LG1155, USB 3.0, SATA 3GBs

Memory (RAM)
8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)

Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
1TB SATA-II 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

2nd Hard Disk
1TB SATA-II 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

Power supply will be a 450 watt one.

Quote:

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Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready

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the power supply for that card is recommended 500w.

Quote Imran500:

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Is the sound card that important if using a USB interface which has outs?

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no, dont worry about onboard sound if you are using an external interface, however your choice of interface can make a big difference to performance, checkout the dawbench thread for more info

Quote Imran500:

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I've been checking out PC specialist and came up with this :

Processor (CPU)

Intel® Core™i5-2400S Quad Core (2.5GHz, 6MB Cache)

Motherboard
ASUS® P8H61-I: Mini-ITX, LG1155, USB 3.0, SATA 3GBs

Memory (RAM)
8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)

Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
1TB SATA-II 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

2nd Hard Disk
1TB SATA-II 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

Power supply will be a 450 watt one.

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That looks like a low-power gaming rig! Dont understand why the low power i5 chip could be useful in a non-silent music pc and you certainly wont need a gtx 560 in a music pc (try a gt210 or something and save your cash you saved from the graphics card to spend on the motherboard and cpu)

If you are looking at this generation of cpus and motherboards then at least look at a system based around the i5 2500k or i7 2600k chip on a z68 series motherboard. Most specialist audio pc builders [cough cough] overclock these chips to 4.5 to 4.6 ghz, so would have about twice the power of that spec for similar cash.

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www.theautobots.com / www.scan.co.uk

Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote Scope:

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If you want a machine to "rock the world", you have to realistic about your requirements.
A £300 laptop is not going to cut it.
Companies like Sony and Apple only use the latest ( and fastest ) tech & so offer outstanding performance, but at a price.
Their machines tend to be 3 or 4 times a budget PC.

---

You've quoted two brands that prioritise style almost as highly as performance!

---

It doesn't hurt to look good when going fast.

Quote Scope:

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Quote Exalted Wombat:

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Quote Scope:

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If you want a machine to "rock the world", you have to realistic about your requirements.
A £300 laptop is not going to cut it.
Companies like Sony and Apple only use the latest ( and fastest ) tech & so offer outstanding performance, but at a price.
Their machines tend to be 3 or 4 times a budget PC.

---

You've quoted two brands that prioritise style almost as highly as performance!

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It doesn't hurt to look good when going fast.

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If you are on stage, and the laptop style is part of your act then fine, otherwise I wouldn't spend a single penny on appearance if the same money could be directed towards performance.

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It wasn't me!
(Well, actually, it probably was)

Quote necromunger:

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Quote:

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Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready

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the power supply for that card is recommended 500w.

---

One thing you tend to notice is that the Gfx card makers do tend to over estimate the psu requirement on their recommended specs. They tend to work on the basis that the customer will use the worse brand available so overstate the requirements so that the PSU will still handle it. To some extent it's almost like PMPO and RMS for speakers as in a good PSU will do it's rated level all day long and normally 10% - 20% more where a naff one will average the figure and ebb & dip 10% or more either way.

So if the psu fitted is a good brand the shouldn't be an issue, even factoring a few years loss of performance as the PSU ages. That said as Tom mentioned above a 560 is overkill for a audio box, and I suspect as it is a lower mid-range gaming spec that if OP swapped in a cheaper, less power hungry 210 it'd shave 80w's requirement off and I suspect lengthen the life of the machine thanks to less load being put on the PSU for the duration of it's life span.

Either way through, it'd be nice to know exactly what PSU is in there as I suspect Necromungers warning is right, in so much that when firms fail to list components the's normally a reason why and a lot do tend to cut corners with the PSU, as end users don't tend to give them much thought or more to the point understand the reasons why you'd want to ensure a good brand is in there.

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ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Quote Imran500:

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A couple of years ago I came on this forum and asked if buying a Dell for music would be a good idea - the general consensus was no. Because I was skint at the time I extremley foolishly went for it.

A couple of years later I've had problems with loads of programs ranging from DAWs (Cubase/ Reaper) through to drums (Battery 3/ Superior Drummer 2.0) through to synths like Alchemy.

It's been rubbish especially since now I can afford stuff and everything else I have (guitars/ plugins/ bass/ pedals) are good quality and the damn PC is shafting me!!!

I think you should do a sticky because I know people are going to come on here and probably say their Dell's been rock solid but honestly - save up a bit more and get a proper PC for your tunes.

---

I never found Reaper that stable and went back to Cubase. My experience of course will not reflect that of others just as your experience with DELL is not reflected in other users here.

At the time was using an old DELL that albeit a handme down was reasonably specced and it was thoroughly reliable. I also used to work for an IT company that settled on DELL as their supplier and the first thing we did was get rid of all the crud that came with their consumer machines, stripped them bare of non-essential software, turned off onboard sound/graphics, used a good sound/graphics card and the machines worked flawlessly.

In my case I found the computer performed much better when I stopped downloading every VST etc I could get my hands on and kept the computer running lean and mean - essential softsynths,couple of good softsamplers (Halion/Kontakt) and I very rarely got a problem and that was on a 3 year old handme down Dell!

I have replaced it because the fans were too noisy, but I keep it as a trusty old backup, because it just kept soldiering on

Quote Imran500:

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Can anyone simply recommend the most reliable motherboard/ hard disk/ power supply etc. combo - I'm not taking any chances whatsoever this time.

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Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, it's not as simple as that - so many aspects can cripple a laptop's audio performance that you have to recommend a specifica make and model that's been proven to work well with audio.

That was the whole point of my sticky thread entitled 'Survey of Recommended PC Laptop Models', which I started way back in January 2007:

www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=414373

Sadly, fewer and fewer modern laptop models are suitable if you want to achieve low latency audio, and even those specialist audio PC builders that still have laptops in their audio range have to regularly jump through hoops if its manufacturer changes an internal component


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Well, in fairness, I had an ex-corporate Dell Precision for about 18 months and apart from the usual fixing PC issues/reauthorisations that afflicts virtually all Windows users, when it worked, it was great and much more reliable than the bargain bucket PC's that I had used before it.

However, when it did die, it died in spectacular fashion at exactly the most inopportune time, compelling me then to decide between Mac and PC. Rather than wait 10 working days for a custom PC to be built, I elected to buy an Imac off the shelf and I have not lost even a few hours to computer issues, let alone whole days.

This isnt one of those PC bad/Mac good posts, have seen lots of those on here and I'm not an evangalist for either. All I wanted was something that just works with no fuss and so far the Imac has delivered that. Compatibility for stuff with Lion has been a bit of a nause, but so far so good. Ultimately, you pays your money, you takes your choice. And FWIW, with Reaper having the tiny footprint that it does, what you describe could indeed be symptomatic of other PC issues...

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www.alterzero.com || "Semper in excremento sum... solum profunditas variat"

Quote Tombot:

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Quote Imran500:

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Is the sound card that important if using a USB interface which has outs?

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no, dont worry about onboard sound if you are using an external interface, however your choice of interface can make a big difference to performance, checkout the dawbench thread for more info

Quote Imran500:

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I've been checking out PC specialist and came up with this :

Processor (CPU)

Intel® Core™i5-2400S Quad Core (2.5GHz, 6MB Cache)

Motherboard
ASUS® P8H61-I: Mini-ITX, LG1155, USB 3.0, SATA 3GBs

Memory (RAM)
8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)

Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti - 2 DVI,HDMI,VGA - 3D Vision Ready

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
1TB SATA-II 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

2nd Hard Disk
1TB SATA-II 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

Power supply will be a 450 watt one.

---

That looks like a low-power gaming rig! Dont understand why the low power i5 chip could be useful in a non-silent music pc and you certainly wont need a gtx 560 in a music pc (try a gt210 or something and save your cash you saved from the graphics card to spend on the motherboard and cpu)

If you are looking at this generation of cpus and motherboards then at least look at a system based around the i5 2500k or i7 2600k chip on a z68 series motherboard. Most specialist audio pc builders [cough cough] overclock these chips to 4.5 to 4.6 ghz, so would have about twice the power of that spec for similar cash.

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Thanks for that info - do people using PCs for music ever overclock their processors?

Quote Imran500:

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Thanks for that info - do people using PCs for music ever overclock their processors?

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Before SandyBridge (Intel's latest chipset technology) then no, probably not, or maybe just a little as it was generally regarded to make the system unstable, or at least it introduced that as a possibility. It also usually resulted in lots of extra cooling, which equals noise and also it was something you'd have to do yourself and was usually outside of warranty conditions. So generally, for reliable music making, not a good idea. Since SandyBridge unlocking a CPU to reach much higher speeds has been pretty easy and is actually part of the design of the technology so you're no longer breaking warranties or being hard-core to let your 3.6GHz CPU run at 4.3 or 4.4 etc. Also cooling is much better these days. If you really "don't want to take any chances" then there are a handful of good audio pc specialists out there who'll guarantee it'll work for music making - might be worth a try.

--------------------
PC-Music.com hints, tips & reviews
Rain Computers UK - Creative Audio PC's

Quote Imran500:

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I'm not taking any chances whatsoever this time.

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you'll be buying it from a specialist retailer and not building it yourself then...

A friend of mine and myself bought identical computers at the same time, we got the bits a bit cheaper as we ordered 2 up of each.

SOme time aafter he started over-clocking, and was it by sheer coincidence, that he started getting fry ups, crashes etc. It got to the point where in summer he had a big 12" fan sat on the desk blowing at the back of the PC, it wouldn't run without it.

Meanwhile, Mr SafeAsMilk Me left it be, and the machine gave years of relaible service? Did my friend get his work done any quicker by having a perceived 25% speed increase, nope, in fact my work was always finished first.

If you get a quad core, or even better i5, i7, properly set up, decent motherboard, decent drives, decent graaphics aand RAM, don't load it with flotsam and jetsom software, keep the updates current, make a host image of various stages i the build ie, #1 vanilla, #2 soundcard drivers installed #3 essential music software all activated etyc, #4 optional software, in my humble experience you can't go wrong.

As for the PC vs Mac debate, I note that the Mac forum has it's fair share of problems too, it isn't just a long list of plaudits extolling the flawlessness of said machines

Quote jaminem:

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Quote Imran500:

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I'm not taking any chances whatsoever this time.

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you'll be buying it from a specialist retailer and not building it yourself then...

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Building my own PC is frankly too scary - I'll let an expert deal with that side of things.

Here's a pretty affordable quote :

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i5-2400 Quad Core (3.10GHz, 6MB Cache) + HD Graphics

Motherboard
ASUS® P8Z68-V LX: USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs, ATI®CrossFireX

Memory (RAM)
16GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (4 X 4GB)

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
500GB SEAGATE Barracuda SATA-III 6Gb/s HDD, 32MB Cache (7200rpm)

2nd Hard Disk
500GB SEAGATE Barracuda SATA-III 6Gb/s HDD, 32MB Cache (7200rpm)

1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

Power Supply
450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£29)

Processor Cooling
SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE INTEL CPU COOLER (£19)

Quote for this lot = £686.00 from PC Specialist.

what about this and just add the extra ram and hdd.

http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ShowSystem.asp?SystemID=1328

Quote Imran500:

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Quote jaminem:

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Quote Imran500:

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I'm not taking any chances whatsoever this time.

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you'll be buying it from a specialist retailer and not building it yourself then...

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Building my own PC is frankly too scary - I'll let an expert deal with that side of things.

Here's a pretty affordable quote :

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i5-2400 Quad Core (3.10GHz, 6MB Cache) + HD Graphics

Motherboard
ASUS® P8Z68-V LX: USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs, ATI®CrossFireX

Memory (RAM)
16GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (4 X 4GB)

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
500GB SEAGATE Barracuda SATA-III 6Gb/s HDD, 32MB Cache (7200rpm)

2nd Hard Disk
500GB SEAGATE Barracuda SATA-III 6Gb/s HDD, 32MB Cache (7200rpm)

1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

Power Supply
450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£29)

Processor Cooling
SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE INTEL CPU COOLER (£19)

Quote for this lot = £686.00 from PC Specialist.

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An audio PC specialist?

If not, there is no guarantee it will work for audio, so that would be daft.
Scan, Rain, DARC, Carillon etc etc....

Quote jaminem:

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An audio PC specialist?

If not, there is no guarantee it will work for audio, so that would be daft.
Scan, Rain, DARC, Carillon etc etc....

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Cheers for that lot - Scan have an interesting concept providing artists with their PCs in return for tracks to be released on their own label. I might drop 'em a track!!!

Quote necromunger:

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what about this and just add the extra ram and hdd.

http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ShowSystem.asp?SystemID=1328

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The next model up http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ShowSystem.asp?SystemID=1294 is one I put together as a budget audio box so it's a bit more but nice and quiet and well tested with Reaper, Sonar and Cubase. Can't comment on the case used in the 25's as I've not worked with the Bitfenix cases myself and someone else looks after those workstations.

Quote Imran500:

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Cheers for that lot - Scan have an interesting concept providing artists with their PCs in return for tracks to be released on their own label. I might drop 'em a track!!!

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Whilst the's a strategy in place for that side of things already, I'm sure a chat won't hurt. TomBot who posted up above is the label guy for enquires along those sort of lines.

(I now suspect he's going to kill me if he logs in later and finds 500 submissions from everyone on the board )

--------------------
ScanProAudio & 3XS Audio Systems
ScanProAudio Blog

Yeah I don't expect to get bunged a free PC but if I send him one of my best it's always worth a shot!

By the way how come this PC has a Fred Perry logo on it

http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ShowSystem.asp?SystemID=1328

I'm trying to configure one of your PCs but there's no option for two hard drives??