Hi all,

I used to write late 90's style dance music using Cubase and writing every note individually in midi. Older synths I have are Novation Supernova, CS6X, AN1X, A5000 and a few others.

I'd really like to know what you're all using now? Particuarly interested in really easy to use and control tools to create great sounds. I used to work with Cubase and I may buy this again. Also interested in recording vocals. So how do I upgrade and get more creative? I have £2000 max to spend and don't play live.

Thanks all, Tim

Hi mate. I don't know how 'out there' you want your sounds to get, but some good new sounds can be made with spectral processing. Also Melodyne can make some warped sounds, granular synthesis, using convolution reverbs in ways they weren't intended.

Bear in mind I'm out of the loop for a few years.

Thanks for the info, really interesting, I'll take a look. Not looking for anything crazy just guessing that standard 90's synth sounds should be getting more complex due to new sound modelling techniques.
Cheers, Tim

Nothing wrong with the sound sources you have now, use them more creatively and switch to Logic..the amount of FX and audio mangling you can do in there will turn your AN into quite something else.
A few years back I had a AN-200 which is basically a AN-1X plus a few things and also minus a few others but essentially it's the same thing (Even patch compatible) I know the thing sounds ace, program it and it can take your sounds far as it's capable of a lot...use it creatively with good use of FX and it will take you into another world without having to learn some other complicated synth and it will get to the point of un-recognition.
Now why don't you post some sound examples of what you want to achieve so we are all on the same wavelength and what you have now

When it comes to software if you've been using hardware to make 90's dance music and stuff, then Reason could be a very good thing to use. If you want to still use your hardware synths, Reason would have to be coupled with Record, which will cost not a huge amount more to get together. Reason has no support for external midi instruments, but Record does and with audio support too.

I use Logic, and it is excellent but has quite a steep learning curve. Taking the Logic route would tie you to Apple computers which may or may not be something which one would want to do. With Reason/Record there would be a greater amount of flexibility, and also it's supposed to be very intuitive and as stable as a DAW as there is.

Quote caveman82:

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I use Logic, and it is excellent but has quite a steep learning curve. Taking the Logic route would tie you to Apple computers which may or may not be something which one would want to do. With Reason/Record there would be a greater amount of flexibility, and also it's supposed to be very intuitive and as stable as a DAW as there is.

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Personlay I don't see how reason will help him move away from the sound he's on..and the lack of MIDI and outside world stuff make it a pain to integrate.
To me Logic can be as complicated or as sample as you want....I started on Logic back in like 1998 when I was in secondary school and didn't know a thing a bout sequencers other than occasionally using the school's old Atari/Cubase combo, when the music department upgraded the Atari to a computer with Logic Audio Platinum 3.5 I took to it like a fish to water...everything was just where I expected it to be imo, when I got more into my music making I used Logic 5 then 5.5 for many years. To be honest I kind of ditched DAW's for a MPC quite a while back but I still have Logic 7.2 on a MAC, in my eyes it's the easiest and most creative DAW to use next to a MPC...ok ok I know Live is another option for the OP ;-)

As to the MAC thing, you can have it really cheap now day's if you are not worried about having the latest thing. I picked up a 2gig imac G5 for 200 quid and another 50 quid for a boxed mint copy of Logic Pro 7.2 with dongle etc

Seeing as you have been out of the dance music loop for quite a bit I thought I would point out the old 90's sound is quite in at the moment ;-)
As to your gear some very creative stuff has been done on less and worse stuff...it's all about how you use it...except the super nova lol I hate those..burn it

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Personlay I don't see how reason will help him move away from the sound he's on..and the lack of MIDI and outside world stuff make it a pain to integrate.

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Record has MIDI for outboard synths.

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To me Logic can be as complicated or as sample as you want....I started on Logic back in like 1998 when I was in secondary school and didn't know a thing a bout sequencers other than occasionally using the school's old Atari/Cubase combo, when the music department upgraded the Atari to a computer with Logic Audio Platinum 3.5 I took to it like a fish to water...everything was just where I expected it to be imo, when I got more into my music making I used Logic 5 then 5.5 for many years. To be honest I kind of ditched DAW's for a MPC quite a while back but I still have Logic 7.2 on a MAC, in my eyes it's the easiest and most creative DAW to use next to a MPC...ok ok I know Live is another option for the OP ;-)

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I personally find Logic more intuitive than a prog with a reputation to be easier to use being Ableton, but the reality is that many do find Logic tricky to use. When it comes to external synths, the Environment of Logic is incredible but not the easiest thing to get to grips. I love Logic with all my heart though, and it's plugins are awesome. In particular Space Designer, also the instruments are excellent IMO Sculpture is up there with the very finest. When it comes to DAW's, it really is horses for courses though, everyone is kind of suited to what is best for them, it's best to try before buying.

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As to the MAC thing, you can have it really cheap now day's if you are not worried about having the latest thing. I picked up a 2gig imac G5 for 200 quid and another 50 quid for a boxed mint copy of Logic Pro 7.2 with dongle etc

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That's an excellent deal. The Apple Refurb shop is an excellent place to pay less for a new Mac.

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Seeing as you have been out of the dance music loop for quite a bit I thought I would point out the old 90's sound is quite in at the moment ;-)
As to your gear some very creative stuff has been done on less and worse stuff...it's all about how you use it...except the super nova lol I hate those..burn it

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What's late 90's stuff? That's when I got into electronic music, i'm only (ONLY) 27 i'm beginning to feel old. The artists I got into back in the day were Squarepusher, Aphex Twin, Autechre who are still going strong today. Well apart from Aphex really, who's still around but not as prolific as the others....

Yep I also have an AN-200 and it's great. I suppose with all this I'm going to have to import as an audio file or can I be clever and import the sounds directly in real time (with the synth playing back via midi), into something like Steinberg MR816 apply fx and send it out to my stereo? I really like the control midi gives me but without doing something more to the sounds I think I'm likely to be stuck in the 90's!

It'd be a major major bonus if I can route my snyths (I have a fair few) into a much smaller device than my very large mixer. Not sure if something like the Steinberg MR816 would do this.

I would want to do some work midi as I've always like the control, not all audio unless I have to as this is the way I've learnt things as I actually play keyboard.

I don't want to go the Apple route it'll cost a fortune to switch and I'm a PC expert.

So if I give an example of what I'm after I suppose it'd be like Radiohead's stuff with vocals but experimental sounds. More ambient based than heavy beats though, hence I want the more complex drifting sounds.

Thanks all for your advice so far!!

If I had a lot of synths i'd bypass the mixer and plug the synths into a soundcard, if there were a lot of synths, I'd up the number of inputs by using a ADAT unit like a Behringer ADA8000 with a Focusrite Saffire 24 or something. Would be a fairly cost effective solution too. Add to that a Korg Nanokontrol or two (they are very cheap) and a Motu midi interface if you needed...

If you've already got a PC, I'd recommend giving Reaper a go. It has a demo out which would allow you to try it out before buying anything.

When it comes to Radiohead ambient type sounds, I think they'd use a lot of analogue systems in addition to modular synths like the Clavia Nord Modular in addition to A LOT of Max/Msp.

For the latter, check out Ableton Live/Max for Live. Max for Live is Max/Msp for Ableton, Ableton is a DAW otherwise getting Max/Msp is more expensive and stuff.

Yep +1 for by-passing the mixer, I would but I still like to perform live with the MPC&Synths other wise I would just get a ADAT interface for my MOTU 828.
It's a shame you don't want to go to mac and Logic but what can you do eh, highly recommend upgrading the DAW you have at the moment as I don't think your old version of Cubase lets you even monitor the audio coming in while being able to apply VST FX on the audio channels you are monitoring like Logic.
Any way if you want to keep the mixer just set up the AUX sends and any free groups to go into your audio interface.
I had a Nord Modular mk1...man awsome synth, spent many hours into the night making sweet patches. the Mk1 to my ears is the best one :-)
Alternatively go for some Wavetable madness lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0uGxdmCkR8

Hmmm on the replacment of mixers....
Behringer ADA8000 with a Focusrite Saffire 24

This certainly sounds very interesting. I wouldn't need all of the Mic pre's, probably only one for a Mic as I have synths in the main which can go as a line in. To hook all this up I'd need over 16 mono inputs (8 stereo synths) for my current kit.

So with this I could take analogue inputs from my synths and effectively play them live using Adat inputs into the Saffire with effects applied? I fully understand how this goes in if this is correct, however I am assuming I'm outputing these sounds with FX or are you talking about recording all synths as Wav files?

I aready have a Midisport 8 midi controller so no issues there.

Thanks, Tim

Oh and I'll take a look at Ableton which I presume is an alternative to Cubase etc.

I'd go for a soundcard that would give a good selection of ins and outs for the time being. As needs be there are still 8 inputs for plugging your synths for the time being, and if you want to leave everything plugged in then an ADA8000 could be picked up. I have no experience of the Saffire cards, but have heard they are very good. I myself have a M-Audio Profire card which I am very happy wit. The Profire 2626 has a 8 pres/lines but has 2 ADATS ins/outs.

When it comes to soundcards though, there are many, many options out there and it's finding the best one for the price range and features for yourself.

Yes, if you have the outputs of your Synths plugged into your soundcard via line or ADAT they will come up in the mixer of your DAW or prog to which they be able to be recorded and have effects added to them.

Bear with me guys! Hopefully not going too off topic so can you let me know if I've got my brain in order with all that's been said?

Can you let me know if below is correct (ignoring vocal recording)?
It seems that I'll have to record my synths audio to get anywhere here. At this point midi is effectively binned and I switch to audio editing in the DAW. If I'm recording without a mixer at it's most simple, I may only need a two input \ two output system. Two inputs for a stereo synth, two outputs to the stereo.
I can then control everything including levels in the DAW and if I really wanted get a control surface from Mackie or otherwise to get the sliders for the volume levels. Or I could even output the audio into the control surface and take the outputs from there into the stereo.

That all seems simple but enough I'm far more used to working with midi and the control it gives me. Is it time to change to move onwards, am I holding myself back or missing something here?! Does anyone still bother with midi or have you all gone into the audio domain? Bear in mind the sounds my synths produce are fine but I'd like to do something more complex with them if I can.

By the way I'm in Twickenham so if anyone is close and has a system they could show me I'd be well up for it

Cheers, Tim

Edited by Tim F (23/05/10 08:43 PM)

Quote caveman82:

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When it comes to software if you've been using hardware to make 90's dance music and stuff, then Reason could be a very good thing to use. If you want to still use your hardware synths, Reason would have to be coupled with Record, which will cost not a huge amount more to get together. Reason has no support for external midi instruments, but Record does and with audio support too.

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Quote caveman82:

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Record has MIDI for outboard synths.

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I can assure you, Record has no midi out. I wish it did though..

Reason is pretty good though. Although I tend to use it to make riffs & phrases, then just export the audio parts for use in Logic.
On the subject of Logic, it is very good. But much more an engineers tool, than a musicians, in my opinion.
Btw, check the Propellerheads website.. Something is brewing, with an announcement set for tomorrow, apparently (Don't bet on it being anything to do with midi out though..)

Paul

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Paul