im trying to get a sound that is very similar to the synth sound that gong and ozircs use..im sure this one is piss easy but it totally eludes me....the sound is like its falling.they usually use it at the start of the song,,when the drums kick in after a long build up..you know what i mean ????i have a korg m1 and a korg triton and yamaha csx5 is it easy enough???

Edited by Martin Walker (25/10/10 06:02 PM)

In answer to your post question - yes

As to the "how" - I believe Ed Wynne referred to the synth "effect" you described as "waterfalls" - which is descriptively apt.

If it helps, I know in the earlier days he started most Ozric compositions using a couple of Pro ones. I'm fairly sure though that the sounds used in the waterfall-type effect came from a Wavestation. Latterly I thihnk he uses a Supernova instead? (or maybe in addition to?). There used to be a guy on here called Stevedog who knew them and their music/gear etc, so maybe he'd be best placed to give the detail if he's still around.

I think pretty much any decent (or otherwise) synth can do that type of thing though - modulating pitch and filter over time with an LFO I suspect. Possiblly with a pulse shape, maybe a sawtooth would work too? It also often sounds like the VCA decay is modulated so that the decay time either increases or decreases throughout the cycle of the patch.

Since i havent got any gear in front of me right now I cant be any more specific. Im sure others can me though. Good luck

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"If I had all the money i'd spent on drink, i'd spend it on drink". Vivian Stanshall

...oh and in the early days Gong used the EMS Synthia I believe - expertly noodled by Tim Blake. Nowadays, with Miquette Giraudy doing the twiddling, I think she uses a Nord - on stage at least. Certainly when I saw them a few weeks ago in Glasgow she had a Nord on stage. Couldnt make out the other one though

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"If I had all the money i'd spent on drink, i'd spend it on drink". Vivian Stanshall

Some of my best friends are pot-head pixies!

A simple analogue monosynth is what you need - if the filter can go into self-oscillation so much the better. I still turn to my Sequential Pro-One for this type of bloopy wibbly sound effect.

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An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

thanks for that dude..deff a step in the right direction!!!i will give it a go when i get home and i will let ya know how i get on...


ps i love my typo in the subject title

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www.myspace.com/onemanandalaptop

Hi again. I remembered that in '96 SOS interviewed Ed Wynne. Not a lot of detail about sound design but interesting nonetheless:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996_articles/aug96/ozrictentacles.html


Oh and yes noticed the typo

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"If I had all the money i'd spent on drink, i'd spend it on drink". Vivian Stanshall

Actually I changed the title of the original post (but not the follow-ups), since “anoy gong or ozric fans here” did rather suggest you were encouraging people to wind others up, and I didn’t want disappointment setting in when they discovered that it was a bona fide question about synth sounds


Martin

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YewTreeMagic

Oops! I mistook this thread for this gong by Sigur Ros. Which I love a lot and jumped in to flood the thread with kisses.

Anyways Ozric's space rock rocks too. No clue about their synth use though. Very new to them.



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SoundCloud

Quote Les:

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...oh and in the early days Gong used the EMS Synthia I believe

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For what it's worth, if you've got Kontakt, you could have this Synthi library for a mere $59 :

http://www.soniccouture.com/en/products/g12-synthi-aks/

Don't have it myself, but I do own several other Soniccouture products, all of which are very good indeed.

D.

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www.thirdfloormusic.com

hey guys thanks so much for the replys...is it possible to do on a korg m1 for instance..its the keyboard i use live the keyboard player in the band has the triton and csx5..i did a bit of fiddling last night..i got close buts its not really there yet..i might try to use the m1 as a mono synth

ps thanks martin for changing the subject typo..although i quite liked it..
paul

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www.myspace.com/onemanandalaptop

Hi again Paul

Been away a while hence the delay.

AS it happens I have the M1rex module and the one problem youll find with it in trying to reproduce that sort of patch is that it doesnt have filter resonance. However, if it's the "falling" pitch descending sound youre after I think such a patch could be set up with the M1 architecture. The M1 LFO's should be able to be routed appropriately - although I have to be honest and say ive never tried to create this sort of patch with it. I use the basstation for that sort of thing - and occasionally (believe-it-or-not) my Vintage Keys Plus module as it has quite complex modulation possibilities. As usual, since im not online at home and so dont have the gear (and the manual) in front of me I cant confirm it. The other issue with the M1 of course is that theres very limited realtime control, not to mention the front panel single parameter editing of course. The same would apply to the VK too of course

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"If I had all the money i'd spent on drink, i'd spend it on drink". Vivian Stanshall

It was indeed the Pro one that they (Ozric T's) used to get that 'bubbling' ( "waterfall") sound on most of their earlier albums & probably the rest.
Most 70s & early 80s monosynths can get this effect as can the late 60s EMS Synthi AKS & Miquette Giraudy did use this synth on most Steve Hillage albums & tours & still does with System 7.

Crikey! The Ozrics! Haven't thought of them for a while. I saw them once at The Brighton Centre. They turned into lizards and I thought I was trapped in a jungle. I couldn't speak. Everything appeared to be at the end of a tunnel. The floor was squishy and I sank into it whenever I sat down.

The moral of the tale? Use the correct type of blotting paper otherwise it's difficult to predict strength. Hoho, crazy days! So glad I've grown up ... A bit

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Original artwork and unique devices inspired by vintage technology http://www.thisisobsolete.com

I seem to recall an interview somewhere (possibly SOS?) where Ed Wynne was talking about his use of the Korg Prophecy, which he referred to as his 'bubble machine', if memory serves (and it usually doesn't )

Miquette also used some mad box (early 90s Orb sessions, anyway) that was completely painted in psychedelic patterns, loads of knobs, not a single thing written on it to tell you WTF was going on - or certainly the one time I messed about with it it took a while to go 'ok, so that one's oscillator pitch, that one's cutoff...' and work it all out. I saw the Ozrics in about 1986 (playing with a band with the superb moniker "Thatcher On Acid") at the Club Mankind in Hackney- and that time the 'falling effect' was coming out of a Korg MS20.

Tricky to do it on an M1 because you don't have easy access to multiple parameters at the same time - a lot of this kind of thing is hands-on twiddlery, and the MS20 excels at this because you have both a hi-pass and lo-pass filter, both with resonance, all four knobs close together (2xcutoff, 2xresonance) and all available to one hand at once, while the other cranks LFO speed and waveform shape at the same time. It's all in the fingers, real time. Try an MS20 emulation and midi controller and you might get close.

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http://anotherfineday.bandcamp.com/ http://anotherfineday.co.uk http://apollomusic.co.uk

Gong, Ozrics and Hillage thread - Xmas has come again already - smiles all round.

A couple of Ozric Tentacles gigs from the early 90's spring to mind - at Glastonbury with the Orb and the Shaman and at Sussex University - seems like last night - very, er, vivid memories.

At this point if anyone wants to ramble about the sub-aquatic synth and guitar sounds on Fish Rising I am all ears...

ok i got close..i used a mix between the triton and of of the soft synths in logic..wanna check out the results
http://www.myspace.com/progadellica/music/songs/space-jam-in-b-mp3-7798248 9

...im kinda happy with it...but for some reason the triton kept drifting out of sync

thanks for the help guys
paul

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www.myspace.com/onemanandalaptop

yey, for space rock! (nice track!)

Yes, I think definitely the whole analogue synth with filter being controlled with LFO and rising it up from low to high is what you want there. Preferably with resonance self-oscilating and a big dollop of delay.

You might like my space rock/krautrock too:

http://onrailsmusic.wordpress.com/

Some bits are even in 5/4!

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Cassette Electrik

hey there nice tracks i like them a lot......cheers for all the help

paul

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www.myspace.com/onemanandalaptop

Hey PaulthOtha & Oli, I enjoyed your tunes! Solid & spacey , nice mixes too

While we're on the subject (occasionally) does anyone happen to know what poly synth was used predominantly on 'Erpland' ? especially on the first 2 tracks.


It sounds like the Roland JD800, & is sustaining chords ('pad') with a subtle lfo or envelope on the filter; a voice-like/etherial timbre.

I love that sound .

I can get very close with my JD800 & close enough with my Wavestation (when it was working), but afaik 'Erpland' came out a year before the JD800 was released (1990 & JD800 in 1991 ) which leads me to guess it must have been the D50.
I was certain that it was the JD800 until the release date discrepancy.
I know that the D50 was (as quoted in the SOS article @ 1998) one of
Ed Wynn's favorite synths of all time hence it may well be that.

I want to know these things..

Just to go into a bit more detail on my last post above, re: that sound on Ozric Tentacles - 'Erpland' (2nd track) that Im after...

As I said its an etherial early digital synth voice-like sustaining slow chord sequence with a slow modulating filter sweep .

I thought it was a signature JD800 'pad' type sound.

I would have put all my money on that,( if I had any) but I recently found out that 'Erpland' came out a year before the JD800 was released, which leads me to the conclusion ,sort of, that it must have been a D50, given Ed Wynns & Joie Hiltons love of & extensive use of the Roland D50 at that time.
Not having a D50 to hand nor have I ever played one ,I cant solve this personal geek riddle.
I can also get very close to that sound with my Kawai K5000S but obviously its not this synth either as it came out @8 years later.
The JD800 can indeed do it, but it cant be that synth unless they had an early prototype.
Anyone?

Ok, even more detail about my last two posts as they are so vague , as in what track Im talking about etc .

Re: that synth sound that Im so interested in ( bordering on sonic obsession)
Its track 3 on 'Erpland' ; 'Tidal Convergence'

It sounds like late 70s fusion ala Brand X. Im not that interested in the track as such in itself or this type of music,( except I used to love Brand X at their best, & Gong & Hillage, the originals )

What it is about this track that Im interested in as I have already said twice , is that particular synth sound & treatment , the synth line that opens the track & continues throughout the track.
Its a particular synth sound that I have heard before in other artists tracks of that era ~( early to mid 1990s) & a sound that I have been trying to identify , 'nerd' that I am in this respect.
Again its a digital sounding synth , but a very warm one , slow chords & a slow sweeping filter on this track that almost sounds as if its a dual filter , band pass or high pass filter in series with a low pass.
Now as I said Im not familiar with the intricacies of the Roland D50s filter or advanced features & I thought it may be this synth filtered through a Korg MS20 , then I was thinking that it may be a Microwave ( due to the dual filter sound)as I think Joie & Ed used all these synths at this time.

I could have sworn that it was a JD800 ( & it can come very close indeed to this sound) but I recently found out that the JD800 came out a year after Erpland was released, so that is highly unlikely then.
I guess I really need to ask them, but it may just be a D50 on its own, so I thought maybe someone here with a D50 & who knows this album could enlighten me. ?

If not Ill have to ask the players

Edited by Captain Waves (16/03/11 02:50 AM)

Hi Captain,

I admire your persistence in tracking down these elusive vintage synth facts!

Unfortuantely, I can't help you with your specific queries, but wanted to recommend NI Massive as a really interesting (plug-in) synth with regard it's wavetable modulation possibilities.

I just got it last week, and it makes the sort of extremely pleasing modulated / phaseshift / hardsync /harmonic sounds that I reckon you might like as well!

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Cassette Electrik

Err... that'll be a yes. I am very much into these 2 bands, very ahead of their times, especially Gong. And Gong made some of the best sounding recordings I have heard to date. I really like the sound overall of "Steve Hillage The Glorous Om Riff", Analogue sound at it's best and worth a listen even if you are not mad on the music itself.

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Mastering online mastering

Could be a Wavestation, or a combination of synths. The original WS was released in 1990, so it could have been used on that album perhaps.

And yes, perhaps could be the D50, it has that glassy quality.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking the entire sound is just one synth patch though - there could be all kinds of extra processing on it.

Edited by desmond (01/04/11 07:57 PM)

I can seriously recommend people check out Ozric Tentacles if they have not heard them. Fantastic musicianship and very unique. A 90's phenomena for sure but listening again at the weekend. They are not to be missed, even if you have never heard of them. Check them out.

You can even hear quite a few of their tracks on their website for free.I was greeted by the incredible Pyramidion when I logged on just now.Not much about that is like them, they certainly bring some much required relaxed headspace after a hard day at work.

http://www.ozrics.com/

Cheers

SafeandSound Mastering

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Mastering online mastering

Quote desmond:

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Don't fall into the trap of thinking the entire sound is just one synth patch though - there could be all kinds of extra processing on it.

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Good point Desmond, I hadnt considered that apart from thinking it might be the D50 being processed through the Korg MS20s filter.
It has a sort of doubled or duel filter sound, I mean you can hear one filter probably a low pass filter set to medium & 3/4 resonance being swept slowely & then a different filter , more subtle sweeping the sound at a different rate. That is what is so beautiful about the sound on that track, the interplay between both filters.. it sort of squeezes the sound through a vortix, like I imagine a blackhole might sound like as an effect or wormhole even more so.

Quote Oli_F:

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Hi Captain,

I admire your persistence in tracking down these elusive vintage synth facts!

Unfortuantely, I can't help you with your specific queries, but wanted to recommend NI Massive as a really interesting (plug-in) synth with regard it's wavetable modulation possibilities.

I just got it last week, and it makes the sort of extremely pleasing modulated / phaseshift / hardsync /harmonic sounds that I reckon you might like as well!

---

Thanks for the recommendation Oli-F, Massive may well be able to do that & I will check it out sometime, but Im not using computers or softsynths for music at the moment, philistine that I am.
Ive enjoyed using Absynth & Reaktor in the past, & they are excellent sounding & powerful synths, but I dont enjoy the virtualness & lack of tactile interaction with software synths & daws. They are good for travelling though amongst other conveniances.
My Z1 is my closest experience currently to Absynth & my V-Synth similarly to Reaktor.

Listening to one of their later offerings "The Hidden Step" I almost miss the "seering treble" of their earlier albums which is characteristically Ozrics, lol.

They must have had a custom "Erp shelf" built into their mixer channels.

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering

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Mastering online mastering

I went to see Gong at the norwich arts centre some years ago on the advice of a friend/
T`was a good gig very psycodelic i must say.....
Glad i went though.

if you like the ozrics, try 'eat static' - the two keyboard players out of the ozrics.....very fine

as for the sounds - look out for the keys being effected by guitar pedals etc etc - kinda unifies the sound with the guitars - a good trick IMHO

especially the song sploosh

and kick muck

live you tube vids that seem to show that connection of sounds where guitars are linked with synths in a great way

eat static on myspace
with some audio examples

big big influences on my music - just wish i could get a keyboard player.....


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http://soundcloud.com/seaapes

Looking at the Sploosh video, they really are the creme de la creme of exciting "space" driven music, killer, thats what music is all about

Come on ozrics get some more shows on the road !

Them and Steve Hillage are closest thing we have left to Hendrix who has obviously inpsired them immensely.

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Mastering online mastering

Late notice heads up, Ozrics O2 Arena, Islington London tommorrow Weds 23/05/12

Quote jellyjim:

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Crikey! The Ozrics! Haven't thought of them for a while. I saw them once at The Brighton Centre. They turned into lizards and I thought I was trapped in a jungle. I couldn't speak. Everything appeared to be at the end of a tunnel. The floor was squishy and I sank into it whenever I sat down.

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Well if you only * and you * with * you can avoid the worst of that.
Whichever one of the Ozrics that spoke it he may be one of the few people who can explain that the next piece is about dinosaurs, listing some of the specific dinosaurs, and be totally sincere about it. That one in fact went on for a very long time and I went off to the bit where Alex Paterson was DJing.(a Megadog at the Brixton Academy)