Hello,

Though I am more experienced in "heavy" keyboards like Rhodes or acoustic piano I still need soft keys sometimes. My old Roland A-30 is perfect for this, besides one thing: only 76 keys, I really prefer 88 keys.

Recently I bought a Studiologic VMK-88+ controller for this purpose.
From the specification it looked ideal: 88 keys, less than 8kg, continuous pedal inputs and assignable knobs (not encoders).

But here are the problems I have with it:

1) I do hate the action. Seriously, I have played on many crappy keyboards but this one is just one of the most horrible for me. In the softwares I have to choose a very "compressed" velocity curve and hit the keys hard enough, otherwise it's just unpredictable (crazy velocity jumps). You can either play very hard or very soft, it's impossible to play in between (and I have played all sorts of keyboards for near 25 years). Honestly, this may be a good keyboard but it feels extremely unnatural, even as a percussion instrument (either "normal" or "accent", nothing between). The Roland A-30, which has softer keys, can be used for dynamic playing and is really more comfortable.
I have no idea if it is because of the action itself, or because of how this action is mounted in the case, or because of the case itself (not that rigid).

2) The MIDI continuous pedal often jumps to 127 while using it. Let's take this problem out of this thread because I have a workaround, say Doepfer Pocket Electronics or something like this.

3) I do not know what the guys who designed the configuration editor smoke but I do not want it for sure. Again, this is not really a problem: I took some time for setting up a generic preset and now keep on using it.

Sorry to sound that nasty, I usually don't react like this, but I think Studiologic just lost the opportunity to make a very interesting keyboard, even if it was more expensive.


So what would you do? I could not find a replacement for it. I only need a keyboard, nothing else (pedal inputs, knobs, etc).
Any "Roland A-30" or other ultra-soft keyboard with 88 keys, possibly not too big/heavy and with a DIN MIDI output?

Or, if an adapted action exists I can buy it and have someone assemble it into a MIDI keyboard.

Second-hand is also an option of course.

At this point, I am even ready to modify the VMK-88 (for example, installing the action in a better case) but I have no idea if it is useful.



Regards
-j

Bob

Did you make any progress with the VMK-88? I have just acquired one (second hand) and although the key action is OK I share the same feelings about the performance. My main gripe is the lack of velocity control/feel compared with my old Roland E-16 which believe it or not, does a very good job despite its age. The main requirement is for use with VST instruments. Is there any way I can alter the velocity on the board? Frustrating. Trouble is, there are not really any decent budget 88 synth style keyboards out there. Plenty of pianos of varying description and quality.

Martin

Quote MartinJG:

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Did you make any progress with the VMK-88?

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Well, in a nutshell, not really.

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My main gripe is the lack of velocity control/feel compared with my old Roland E-16 which believe it or not, does a very good job despite its age.

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I can certainly believe that the E-16 is good. There has always been good and less good keyboards, and this is highly subjective anyway.


Back to the VMK-88, I think the problem is: it requires more weight to keep a note depressed than to trigger it (seems very unnatural to me on any musical instrument)

The key return (come-back) springs are too hard, especially after mid-course. Disclaimer: I have no idea if this is useful for organ playing. Maybe it helps, though I would not like an organ like this, but I am not an organist (for keyboards I play acoustic and electric piano, plus some electronics like computer or modular synth).

I measured some values with coins:
* release weight must be superior to 80 grams for the white keys remain fully depressed
* release weight must be superior to 123 grams for the black keys remain fully depressed
(this is a crude average, some are way harder, others way softer)
EDIT: there was an error here ^

This would seem very high values, but actually, far lighter weights can trigger a note. In this case, the key may not reach the end of its course as the spring is too strong. So in practice, you have to add more weight after playing the note, for it remains fully depressed.
Then why not play always harder ? Well it reaches the max velocity too easily in this case, and due to very bad keyboard regulation some keys are more sensitive to this than some others. As a results you get a lot of nasty "accents" when playing, for instance, grand piano
Then how about finding a good compromise between these two extremes? Well I did not find it.

Finally, of course, the huge weight difference between white and black keys, and the significant difference between individual keys is another big problem, even if it can be somehow corrected in software, with very average results.


On the Yamaha P-250, which is a very hard keyboard, playing a note that remains depressed requires "only" 74 (high notes) to 98 grams (low notes). But this weight is mostly required for triggering the notes; for keeping them depressed, it requires far less weight than for triggering notes on the VMK-88.


Tuning/fixing it would require:
1. much weaker return springs
2. weight regulation across the whole range
3. white vs black keys balance

But I asked a few keyboard hardware specialists and they told me they were not able to replace the springs, or it would not work at all with other springs.

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Is there any way I can alter the velocity on the board?

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No, the only thing you can do is tighten, release or even remove the back screws and experiment with this. The keyboard will feel different, but this is highly unpredictable and I could not find any satisfying tuning.

You can also try to change the velocity curves in software. But amazingly I still did not find the right curves for the VMK-88 (I mean, for dynamic instruments). I don't remember any keyboard that felt that uncomfortable.

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Trouble is, there are not really any decent budget 88 synth style keyboards out there.

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Actually, is there even an expensive one ?

Edited by Bob Moose (15/03/12 10:14 PM)

Bob

Thanks for the reply. The thing that I miss most is DYNAMICS. It is very noticeable and important when using sampled orchestras such as East West. I get good dynamics/expression on the E-16 but not the VMK-88. I just don't think there is the same emphasis on building an 'instrument' as there was around the 80's. A year ago I tried a Novation SL 61 board as a desktop midi controller based on recommendations. Hated it the moment I laid fingers on it and it was back in the box ready for collection care of those nice chaps at Digital Village, Birmingham. It seems to me the Roland A series have not been surpassed and that means a shrinking used market with maintenance, parts problems etc. Just makes me realise how much work went into designing and building those boards. Frustrating as hell. Back to the drawing board I guess. All the best.

Martin